>#Scots gender certificate ‘invalid’ south of border
>Matt Dathan, Home Affairs Editor
>Monday January 09 2023, 12.01am GMT, The Times
>Transgender Scots will have to apply for a UK gender recognition certificate in order to be recognised outside Scotland under changes to be made by ministers.
>The move aims to combat fears that Scotland’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which will make it easier to change gender, could lead to “gender tourism” whereby people travel north of the border to obtain a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to bypass stricter rules in the rest of the UK.
>The Westminster government will update a list of countries whose GRCs meet sufficient checks and balances for people who want to change their legal gender. The list is kept under review to ensure that countries that have a less “rigorous” process for changing legal gender are removed. People with GRCs from countries not on the list of “approved countries and territories” have to apply for a UK certificate in order for their gender to be recognised here. Those from countries on the list are automatically recognised.
>The list was last updated in 2011 when Montenegro and Latvia were removed from the list of approved countries.
>Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, has launched a review to “update the list” in light of the Scottish parliament passing the gender bill last month. The legislation allows people to change their legal gender without a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria in as little as three months. It lowers the minimum age at which people can apply to change gender from 18 to 16.
>UK government sources said that unless the Scottish government amended the legislation to require a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, Scotland would be added to the list of countries that the rest of the UK would no longer recognise as having a rigorous process for changing gender.
>As a result, anyone issued with a Scottish GRC would also have to apply for a UK certificate in order for it to be recognised in England and Wales.
>A UK government source said: “This is just a procedural change and it was envisaged in the 2004 act. It is not a new measure, it was done in 2011 and we are updating it for 2023.
>“We are not discriminating against people from foreign countries with GRCs. If they arrive in this country with one from a country that has a less rigorous system than the UK, we’re saying you should apply for a UK GRC, which is readily available.”
>Government sources said the review of the list would be carried out before any move to take the unprecedented step of blocking Scotland’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill. Yesterday The Sunday Times reported that Rishi Sunak has the “political appetite” to take direct action to deny the Scottish parliament royal assent rather than refer the matter to the Supreme Court.
>Alister Jack, the Scottish secretary, is understood to have received initial advice from Victoria Prentis, the attorney-general, and from Lord Stewart of Dirleton, advocate-general for Scotland, that the bill could be challenged under the Scotland Act. Section 35 allows UK ministers to issue an order prohibiting Holyrood’s presiding officer from submitting the bill for royal assent if there are reasonable grounds to believe it would adversely affect the operation of UK-wide equality legislation reserved to Westminster.
>The charity Stonewall has urged the government not to interfere, warning that doing so would diminish the UK’s reputation and undermine the relationship with the Scottish government.
>Colin Macfarlane, director of nations at Stonewall, said that the new law had been “passed by a resounding cross-party majority, with support from MSPs in all parties”.
>He added: “The UK government has had more than six years to engage constructively with the Scottish government over the proposals. For the UK government to seek to block implementation of this act would be disastrous for trans people, who deserve far better from their government.”
All a GRC does is let someone change their gender on their birth certificate and a few other documents like that, it also has absolutely nothing to do with accessing single sex spaces. The fact that this is being spun as some incredibly controversial bill is beyond absurd, the only reason they’re making it into such a big deal is because the Tories want to use it as a culture war wedge issue to distract from their many failings.
Well, we’re used to having other things being invalid down south anyway (scottish bank notes for instance).
…so it says the UK has a list of countries that it recognizes legal changesof gender from.
I must ask, is Ireland on the list? Because the bill in Scotland is just bringing Scottish law up to the standards of Irish law on the matter.
Honest to god the biggest issue I have with all of this is the misrepresntation.
You want to oppose trans people? Fine, that’s your issue with yourself. But this acting like trans folk don’t **already** have rights legally to be treated equal with non trans folk is what really gets my goat. Its utterly dishonest, misleading and disingenuous.
A trans woman won bloody Big Brother, voted for by 10 million viewers 20 years ago and now look where we are, today; dinosaurs have reared their heads and kicking up a huge tantrum at something they’ve now decided they’re scared of that was previously not something they even thought about day to day.
Can’t believe that this is what the so called Conservative and *Unionist* party is willing to risk blowing up the union over. There’s folk who are fairly neutral on this and on the fence regarding the constitutional question who’ll probably go “hang on a minute…?” for certain.
So are they going to invalidate Scottish marriage certificates for those under 18 too?
7 comments
>#Scots gender certificate ‘invalid’ south of border
>Matt Dathan, Home Affairs Editor
>Monday January 09 2023, 12.01am GMT, The Times
>Transgender Scots will have to apply for a UK gender recognition certificate in order to be recognised outside Scotland under changes to be made by ministers.
>The move aims to combat fears that Scotland’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which will make it easier to change gender, could lead to “gender tourism” whereby people travel north of the border to obtain a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to bypass stricter rules in the rest of the UK.
>The Westminster government will update a list of countries whose GRCs meet sufficient checks and balances for people who want to change their legal gender. The list is kept under review to ensure that countries that have a less “rigorous” process for changing legal gender are removed. People with GRCs from countries not on the list of “approved countries and territories” have to apply for a UK certificate in order for their gender to be recognised here. Those from countries on the list are automatically recognised.
>The list was last updated in 2011 when Montenegro and Latvia were removed from the list of approved countries.
>Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, has launched a review to “update the list” in light of the Scottish parliament passing the gender bill last month. The legislation allows people to change their legal gender without a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria in as little as three months. It lowers the minimum age at which people can apply to change gender from 18 to 16.
>UK government sources said that unless the Scottish government amended the legislation to require a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, Scotland would be added to the list of countries that the rest of the UK would no longer recognise as having a rigorous process for changing gender.
>As a result, anyone issued with a Scottish GRC would also have to apply for a UK certificate in order for it to be recognised in England and Wales.
>A UK government source said: “This is just a procedural change and it was envisaged in the 2004 act. It is not a new measure, it was done in 2011 and we are updating it for 2023.
>“We are not discriminating against people from foreign countries with GRCs. If they arrive in this country with one from a country that has a less rigorous system than the UK, we’re saying you should apply for a UK GRC, which is readily available.”
>Government sources said the review of the list would be carried out before any move to take the unprecedented step of blocking Scotland’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill. Yesterday The Sunday Times reported that Rishi Sunak has the “political appetite” to take direct action to deny the Scottish parliament royal assent rather than refer the matter to the Supreme Court.
>Alister Jack, the Scottish secretary, is understood to have received initial advice from Victoria Prentis, the attorney-general, and from Lord Stewart of Dirleton, advocate-general for Scotland, that the bill could be challenged under the Scotland Act. Section 35 allows UK ministers to issue an order prohibiting Holyrood’s presiding officer from submitting the bill for royal assent if there are reasonable grounds to believe it would adversely affect the operation of UK-wide equality legislation reserved to Westminster.
>The charity Stonewall has urged the government not to interfere, warning that doing so would diminish the UK’s reputation and undermine the relationship with the Scottish government.
>Colin Macfarlane, director of nations at Stonewall, said that the new law had been “passed by a resounding cross-party majority, with support from MSPs in all parties”.
>He added: “The UK government has had more than six years to engage constructively with the Scottish government over the proposals. For the UK government to seek to block implementation of this act would be disastrous for trans people, who deserve far better from their government.”
All a GRC does is let someone change their gender on their birth certificate and a few other documents like that, it also has absolutely nothing to do with accessing single sex spaces. The fact that this is being spun as some incredibly controversial bill is beyond absurd, the only reason they’re making it into such a big deal is because the Tories want to use it as a culture war wedge issue to distract from their many failings.
Well, we’re used to having other things being invalid down south anyway (scottish bank notes for instance).
…so it says the UK has a list of countries that it recognizes legal changesof gender from.
I must ask, is Ireland on the list? Because the bill in Scotland is just bringing Scottish law up to the standards of Irish law on the matter.
Honest to god the biggest issue I have with all of this is the misrepresntation.
You want to oppose trans people? Fine, that’s your issue with yourself. But this acting like trans folk don’t **already** have rights legally to be treated equal with non trans folk is what really gets my goat. Its utterly dishonest, misleading and disingenuous.
A trans woman won bloody Big Brother, voted for by 10 million viewers 20 years ago and now look where we are, today; dinosaurs have reared their heads and kicking up a huge tantrum at something they’ve now decided they’re scared of that was previously not something they even thought about day to day.
Can’t believe that this is what the so called Conservative and *Unionist* party is willing to risk blowing up the union over. There’s folk who are fairly neutral on this and on the fence regarding the constitutional question who’ll probably go “hang on a minute…?” for certain.
So are they going to invalidate Scottish marriage certificates for those under 18 too?