Simple way out of this: set up a community trust, owned by private citizens and donate the land to it. Then it’s not gov’t property anymore.
Legal shananigans aside, it’s asinine to remove a WWII memorial for the reason given. Sure, it depicts a Catholic saint, but that’s not the goal of the statue itself
Are they really out of their mind? To be clear, I am an atheist and I still find this ridiculous. I cycle a lot in my region, and many passes have name like “Col de la Croix du Cygne”, and of course, most of the time, when you reach the pass, what do you see? A cross (croix in French means cross). They are on the side of the road, will they ask for their removal too? People are really insane.
When religion really hurt people, that is, when it is forced on someone, depriving this persons of his/her rights, or when it endangers their life, I am all for fighting it, but when it is innocuous or even helps people feeling better then, live it alone, please.
[deleted]
… and charge them with the expenses of removal.
What was the problem? Did the statue done anything bad to anyone?
stupid judge
Rename the statue “mother nature” and voilà, no more religious statue!
It is a recent statue which has no historical value and it was initially erected by individuals, then given to the city, which should have refused it, since a community does not have the right to erect statues related to idiotic sects like catholicism anymore.
About time. Crap like that should never even been put up in the first place. Public land belongs to everyone and one specific religion shouldn’t be allowed to force their believes on everyone else.
I hope one day they will also start tearing this stuff down here in Austria. It’s ridiculous we even still have schools and public building displaying religious items.
Has she been racist again?
It can seems pretty harsh, but this was built after 1905 (when laïcité laws were passed). The judge’s job is to apply the law. The town should have known better. And if this was a big issue, the 1905 laws can be repelled. But they have gone through 3 different Republics and we have kept them, so good luck with that. Many French are ok with them : [a large majority of French including catholics are even glad that those laws exist](https://www.vie-publique.fr/en-bref/21994-laicite-principe-republicain-opinion-publique), more people want to make those laws stricter than the number of people who want to make those laws less stringent.
I really like this degree of state atheism.
Weird time in European history where anything that reminds us of anything before the 60s is scrutinised removed or outright destroyed
WTF is wrong with France?
You can’t even believe in Jesus, Virgin Mary and christianity without being persecuted?
Where’s the liberty?
Can’t they just put the statue in a local church?
Absolute madness.
Secularism for all. Good for France.
Scandalous
A law in France forbids the placing of religious symbols on public ground past the year 1905, this statue was placed after WWII to commemorate the victims of the conflict therefore it went against the previous mentioned law.
Honestly I don’t get why this is controversial, the judge simply applied the law.
Dick move since I can understand why it would be considered more of a historical monument rather than purely religious, and even then, but if it is the law and it is being enforced consistently, then I can see why it’s removal is being ordered.
I am an atheist, however the virgin Mary is pretty special for me since people very close to me venerate her with a lot positivity, so I personally could honestly see either side understandably winning out here.
The article says France made it illegal to display religious figures in public in 1905. This statue is from around ww2. So France is following its own laws. Is this what it is all about, or is there anything else?
Am not french, not practicing any religion, was baptized and appreciate christianity as our common european cultural background. I am neutral towards the church as an institution, historically they made some good and some bad things, but I do agree that this is too much. I don’t care whether some people really do believe in miracles or holy protection and pray for it.. As long as it is not forced upon me or others with education. I would much rather see ad panels and billboards be banned, they are far more jarring and annoying than some oldfashioned spiritual/religious symbol, or weird fairytales about a cheating woman who convinced her partner that she was blessed by the holy spirit and is now pregnant with god…
These kind of bans will not stop people from being religious, they tried it in many communist countries in the past. But in the end, this is France’s own business.
This is why France actually has cultural wars and religion wars, despite telling itself that laïcité has freed them for these things forever. No, your policy actually encourages these things to happen.
22 comments
Simple way out of this: set up a community trust, owned by private citizens and donate the land to it. Then it’s not gov’t property anymore.
Legal shananigans aside, it’s asinine to remove a WWII memorial for the reason given. Sure, it depicts a Catholic saint, but that’s not the goal of the statue itself
Are they really out of their mind? To be clear, I am an atheist and I still find this ridiculous. I cycle a lot in my region, and many passes have name like “Col de la Croix du Cygne”, and of course, most of the time, when you reach the pass, what do you see? A cross (croix in French means cross). They are on the side of the road, will they ask for their removal too? People are really insane.
When religion really hurt people, that is, when it is forced on someone, depriving this persons of his/her rights, or when it endangers their life, I am all for fighting it, but when it is innocuous or even helps people feeling better then, live it alone, please.
[deleted]
… and charge them with the expenses of removal.
What was the problem? Did the statue done anything bad to anyone?
stupid judge
Rename the statue “mother nature” and voilà, no more religious statue!
It is a recent statue which has no historical value and it was initially erected by individuals, then given to the city, which should have refused it, since a community does not have the right to erect statues related to idiotic sects like catholicism anymore.
About time. Crap like that should never even been put up in the first place. Public land belongs to everyone and one specific religion shouldn’t be allowed to force their believes on everyone else.
I hope one day they will also start tearing this stuff down here in Austria. It’s ridiculous we even still have schools and public building displaying religious items.
Has she been racist again?
It can seems pretty harsh, but this was built after 1905 (when laïcité laws were passed). The judge’s job is to apply the law. The town should have known better. And if this was a big issue, the 1905 laws can be repelled. But they have gone through 3 different Republics and we have kept them, so good luck with that. Many French are ok with them : [a large majority of French including catholics are even glad that those laws exist](https://www.vie-publique.fr/en-bref/21994-laicite-principe-republicain-opinion-publique), more people want to make those laws stricter than the number of people who want to make those laws less stringent.
I really like this degree of state atheism.
Weird time in European history where anything that reminds us of anything before the 60s is scrutinised removed or outright destroyed
WTF is wrong with France?
You can’t even believe in Jesus, Virgin Mary and christianity without being persecuted?
Where’s the liberty?
Can’t they just put the statue in a local church?
Absolute madness.
Secularism for all. Good for France.
Scandalous
A law in France forbids the placing of religious symbols on public ground past the year 1905, this statue was placed after WWII to commemorate the victims of the conflict therefore it went against the previous mentioned law.
Honestly I don’t get why this is controversial, the judge simply applied the law.
Dick move since I can understand why it would be considered more of a historical monument rather than purely religious, and even then, but if it is the law and it is being enforced consistently, then I can see why it’s removal is being ordered.
I am an atheist, however the virgin Mary is pretty special for me since people very close to me venerate her with a lot positivity, so I personally could honestly see either side understandably winning out here.
The article says France made it illegal to display religious figures in public in 1905. This statue is from around ww2. So France is following its own laws. Is this what it is all about, or is there anything else?
Am not french, not practicing any religion, was baptized and appreciate christianity as our common european cultural background. I am neutral towards the church as an institution, historically they made some good and some bad things, but I do agree that this is too much. I don’t care whether some people really do believe in miracles or holy protection and pray for it.. As long as it is not forced upon me or others with education. I would much rather see ad panels and billboards be banned, they are far more jarring and annoying than some oldfashioned spiritual/religious symbol, or weird fairytales about a cheating woman who convinced her partner that she was blessed by the holy spirit and is now pregnant with god…
These kind of bans will not stop people from being religious, they tried it in many communist countries in the past. But in the end, this is France’s own business.
This is why France actually has cultural wars and religion wars, despite telling itself that laïcité has freed them for these things forever. No, your policy actually encourages these things to happen.