> **Berlin Won’t Allow Exports of German Tanks to Ukraine Unless U.S. Sends Own Tanks, Officials Say**
>
> North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies have over 2,000 German-made Leopard tanks
>
> BERLIN—Germany won’t allow allies to ship German-made tanks to Ukraine to help its defense against Russia nor send its own systems unless the U.S. agrees to send American main battle tanks, senior German officials said on Wednesday.
>
> North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies have over 2,000 German-made Leopard tanks, considered to be among the most sophisticated in the world, according to the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.
>
> Several European governments have said they are ready to send German-made tanks to Ukraine, including Poland, Finland and Denmark, if they get approval from Berlin, though none has made a formal request. Britain has said it would send 14 of its Challenger 2 main battle tanks, an older equivalent to the Leopard.
>
> The export of modern, Western-made tanks, something the U.S. and Ukraine’s supporters in Europe have long resisted, marks a notable escalation in Western support for Kyiv. Berlin has been concerned for some time that such a step could drag the country into a direct confrontation with Russia.
I see this as an absolute win!
What a clown
Ukraine is in fucking europe… germany should be going above and beyond here. Yes americans want to and should do the right thing, but if eastern europe falls it wont really affect us all that much. If that happens germany is fucked. They need to be doing everything they can to ensure ukraine wins this war regardless of what the us does or doesnt do. If mexico was invaded by brazil the us wouldnt wait around for germany to send tanks before we do. Stupid ass position to take.
Ok so first it was “we won’t send tanks unless someone else does”. Now that the UK is doing so it’s “no tanks unless America specifically does.” Goalpost moving hall of fame move
We know this isn’t true, it’s just that no requests have been made. All the German flared redditors said so.
Having said that if US and German made tanks are sent that would be good.
We know this isn’t true, it’s just that no requests have been made. All the German flared redditors said so.
Having said that if US and German made tanks are sent that would be good.
Ehhh Germany we now need a bit of that ye olde Germany again… Just without all those racial policies and bad stuff. Please.
There is a very logical reason for this, which probably no one will officially admit to.
Germany cannot allow the Leopard 2 to be the sole Western MBT system for Ukraine, because it sets them up to deliver new Leo2 A6/7’s after all A4’s have been lost.
Therefore, it’s important that the U.S. also fully commits to the deployment of M1 Abrams and the establishment of logistics chains.
On behalf of my country, I deeply want to apologize for (albeit not personally) having elected such a coward as leader of our nation.
For the first time in my life, I am actually ashamed to be German.
For decades we were raised to be humble and pacifist, ask not to rule but to cooperate, achieve what we want by consensus, not by force; because of what terror our grandfathers did to the world 78 years ago.
Now, finally, the time has turned, and my country is seen as what I so much love it for: A modern, peaceful leading nation, united with the surrounding countries, with our brothers and sisters throughout Europe, instead of against them.
A country that doesn’t attack the weak, but protects them, a country that doesn’t burn Europe, but brings Europe together. Something we are now respected for, something we worked for, so hard.
And now, where all this is at jeopardy, and we **could** do something to live up to our words, our promises of “there shall never be a war in Europe ever again”, now we show such an embarrassing farce when it comes to supporting Ukraine with what it requests: Sending or even just approving to send one of the best tanks in the world, to help them fend off the devil.
For fuck’s sake, Scholz, send the damn tanks and make politics later.
I have often times defended my country against months and months of unfair bashing in this subreddit (e.g. the ever lasting gas bashing).
But this time I can’t defend my country. It is pathetic. It is a farce and I am so sorry.
I just don’t understand. Why Germany can’t be 100% solid.
Not even their own tanks, they forbid OTHER countries to send theirs. Seriously, Berlin is 1200 km from Kiev. Washington is 8000 km away.
This seems to be a „glass half empty/full“ situation.
Scholz allows German tank exports to Ukraine if the US sends own tanks – what are we waiting for?
Good, it’s nice to see that germany does not want to prolong the war.
Also the new DoD minister is the best candidate, i especially like
> … he was a member of the German-Russian Friendship Group set up in cooperation with the Russian Federatiom Council…
>Germany won’t allow allies to ship German-made tanks to Ukraine to help its defense against Russia nor send its own systems unless the U.S. agrees to send American-made battle tanks, senior German officials said on Wednesday.
>
>(…)
>
>“One can’t differentiate between direct exports (of German-made tanks) and exports by third countries,” a senior German official said Wednesday.
That makes absolutely no sense. Or is putin blaming the soviet union, because EE sentn soviet made tanks to Ukraine?
Just send the requests, right? All the Polish talk is just disguised germanophobia and PiS master strategy to win elections. Bloody clowns.
So much nonsense talk, other countries should just formally request approval for reexport and see what happens. Habeck recently repeated again that germany wont prevent other countries from sending ther leopards regardless of what gets decided in regards to german delivieries.
Scholz has had literally the same position with the exact same phrase the entire year “not going alone, working closely with our partners” and no one else shows any intention of sending large amounts of tanks, yet everyone complains about nothing happening.
Strange … after all, the Germans wrote on reddit that they would allow Western partners to send tanks to Ukraine, and Poland’s actions are simply “PiS propaganda”
Unrelated to this topic, but can’t post discussion threads on this subreddit.
Why does Russia seem to blame Britain for all the bad (or good) shit. E.g. Norstream 2 blowing up, the bridge blowing up, the assassination of Darya Dugina.
Why does no one else (looking at you USA) get the blame?
I honestly have no clue whats going on. Habeck stated again and again that Germany wont prevent other countries from sendting their Leos to Ukraine if they jsut send the papers
I wonder if Rheinmettal and KMW are pressuring the German government not to allow Leo2s in Ukraine.
At this point it’s the biggest plausible factor that causes this reluctance, they don’t want to see their tanks burnt down and have their sales plummet for other competitors.
Have we asked Prussia)
Ah yes, the leader of Europe, Germany. Asking for daddy America to show an example before they can do a single thing… as much as I love Germany and our continent, this lack of a spine a d ability to *actually* act is so pathetic. This continent and union needs a leader who will do something, take the lead and show exampl, not this
25 comments
> **Berlin Won’t Allow Exports of German Tanks to Ukraine Unless U.S. Sends Own Tanks, Officials Say**
>
> North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies have over 2,000 German-made Leopard tanks
>
> BERLIN—Germany won’t allow allies to ship German-made tanks to Ukraine to help its defense against Russia nor send its own systems unless the U.S. agrees to send American main battle tanks, senior German officials said on Wednesday.
>
> North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies have over 2,000 German-made Leopard tanks, considered to be among the most sophisticated in the world, according to the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies.
>
> Several European governments have said they are ready to send German-made tanks to Ukraine, including Poland, Finland and Denmark, if they get approval from Berlin, though none has made a formal request. Britain has said it would send 14 of its Challenger 2 main battle tanks, an older equivalent to the Leopard.
>
> The export of modern, Western-made tanks, something the U.S. and Ukraine’s supporters in Europe have long resisted, marks a notable escalation in Western support for Kyiv. Berlin has been concerned for some time that such a step could drag the country into a direct confrontation with Russia.
I see this as an absolute win!
What a clown
Ukraine is in fucking europe… germany should be going above and beyond here. Yes americans want to and should do the right thing, but if eastern europe falls it wont really affect us all that much. If that happens germany is fucked. They need to be doing everything they can to ensure ukraine wins this war regardless of what the us does or doesnt do. If mexico was invaded by brazil the us wouldnt wait around for germany to send tanks before we do. Stupid ass position to take.
Ok so first it was “we won’t send tanks unless someone else does”. Now that the UK is doing so it’s “no tanks unless America specifically does.” Goalpost moving hall of fame move
We know this isn’t true, it’s just that no requests have been made. All the German flared redditors said so.
Having said that if US and German made tanks are sent that would be good.
We know this isn’t true, it’s just that no requests have been made. All the German flared redditors said so.
Having said that if US and German made tanks are sent that would be good.
Ehhh Germany we now need a bit of that ye olde Germany again… Just without all those racial policies and bad stuff. Please.
There is a very logical reason for this, which probably no one will officially admit to.
Germany cannot allow the Leopard 2 to be the sole Western MBT system for Ukraine, because it sets them up to deliver new Leo2 A6/7’s after all A4’s have been lost.
Therefore, it’s important that the U.S. also fully commits to the deployment of M1 Abrams and the establishment of logistics chains.
On behalf of my country, I deeply want to apologize for (albeit not personally) having elected such a coward as leader of our nation.
For the first time in my life, I am actually ashamed to be German.
For decades we were raised to be humble and pacifist, ask not to rule but to cooperate, achieve what we want by consensus, not by force; because of what terror our grandfathers did to the world 78 years ago.
Now, finally, the time has turned, and my country is seen as what I so much love it for: A modern, peaceful leading nation, united with the surrounding countries, with our brothers and sisters throughout Europe, instead of against them.
A country that doesn’t attack the weak, but protects them, a country that doesn’t burn Europe, but brings Europe together. Something we are now respected for, something we worked for, so hard.
And now, where all this is at jeopardy, and we **could** do something to live up to our words, our promises of “there shall never be a war in Europe ever again”, now we show such an embarrassing farce when it comes to supporting Ukraine with what it requests: Sending or even just approving to send one of the best tanks in the world, to help them fend off the devil.
For fuck’s sake, Scholz, send the damn tanks and make politics later.
I have often times defended my country against months and months of unfair bashing in this subreddit (e.g. the ever lasting gas bashing).
But this time I can’t defend my country. It is pathetic. It is a farce and I am so sorry.
I just don’t understand. Why Germany can’t be 100% solid.
Not even their own tanks, they forbid OTHER countries to send theirs. Seriously, Berlin is 1200 km from Kiev. Washington is 8000 km away.
This seems to be a „glass half empty/full“ situation.
Scholz allows German tank exports to Ukraine if the US sends own tanks – what are we waiting for?
Good, it’s nice to see that germany does not want to prolong the war.
Also the new DoD minister is the best candidate, i especially like
> … he was a member of the German-Russian Friendship Group set up in cooperation with the Russian Federatiom Council…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Pistorius
>Germany won’t allow allies to ship German-made tanks to Ukraine to help its defense against Russia nor send its own systems unless the U.S. agrees to send American-made battle tanks, senior German officials said on Wednesday.
>
>(…)
>
>“One can’t differentiate between direct exports (of German-made tanks) and exports by third countries,” a senior German official said Wednesday.
That makes absolutely no sense. Or is putin blaming the soviet union, because EE sentn soviet made tanks to Ukraine?
Just send the requests, right? All the Polish talk is just disguised germanophobia and PiS master strategy to win elections. Bloody clowns.
So much nonsense talk, other countries should just formally request approval for reexport and see what happens. Habeck recently repeated again that germany wont prevent other countries from sending ther leopards regardless of what gets decided in regards to german delivieries.
Scholz has had literally the same position with the exact same phrase the entire year “not going alone, working closely with our partners” and no one else shows any intention of sending large amounts of tanks, yet everyone complains about nothing happening.
Strange … after all, the Germans wrote on reddit that they would allow Western partners to send tanks to Ukraine, and Poland’s actions are simply “PiS propaganda”
Unrelated to this topic, but can’t post discussion threads on this subreddit.
Why does Russia seem to blame Britain for all the bad (or good) shit. E.g. Norstream 2 blowing up, the bridge blowing up, the assassination of Darya Dugina.
Why does no one else (looking at you USA) get the blame?
I honestly have no clue whats going on. Habeck stated again and again that Germany wont prevent other countries from sendting their Leos to Ukraine if they jsut send the papers
I wonder if Rheinmettal and KMW are pressuring the German government not to allow Leo2s in Ukraine.
At this point it’s the biggest plausible factor that causes this reluctance, they don’t want to see their tanks burnt down and have their sales plummet for other competitors.
Have we asked Prussia)
Ah yes, the leader of Europe, Germany. Asking for daddy America to show an example before they can do a single thing… as much as I love Germany and our continent, this lack of a spine a d ability to *actually* act is so pathetic. This continent and union needs a leader who will do something, take the lead and show exampl, not this
What is Germany afraid of?
Finally some sense!