So payrise of 4.5% this ear AKA 6.5% real terms pay cut
Without knowing the additional terms it’s still shit.
Its like they’re offering deals from a script, the one offered to postal works was termed “the best and final offer” as well
Agreement hinges on changes to working conditions AGAIN. Basically asking the unions to agree to slightly more money but less than they are owed, for their job to get shitter. Why isn’t this more emphasised?
I’ve just read the terms, they’re unacceptable. Potentially selling out colleagues jobs for a way below inflation rise.
I hope the rail workers consider the few extra pounds worth all the innocent people they’ve screwed over and livelihoods they’ve impacted. Hope it was worth all the extra CO2 from people who have now given up on trains and will in future drive or fly instead.
[deleted]
As I understand it it was more about the terms. As there was going to be loads of job cuts.
Saying that though when I read that Rotas had to still be approved by unions each month that took me back a bit
I was listening to a station guard on the radio and he was saying his job will be gone with the new terms.
Did the rail companies learn how to negotiate by watching ‘Flog it!’ ?
In nineteen and sixty, a long time ago
The Mineworker’s leaders to Lord Robens* did go
Saying, “We work very hard, every day we risk our lives
We ask you here and now for a pound a week rise.”
Then up spoke Lord Robens and made this decree
Saying, “When the output rises, then I’ll agree
To raise up your wages, give to you fair pay
I was once a miner’s man myself in my day.”
The miners they went homeward and worked hard and well
With their lungs filled with coal dust in the bosom of hell
The output rose fifteen per cent and eighteen and more
Till after two years had gone it rose above a score**.
The Mineworkers leaders went for their hard-won prize
To ask Lord Robens for their pound a week rise
But Robens wouldn’t give a pound – he wouldn’t give ten bob
He gave them seven and six and said, “ Get back to your job.”
Come all of you colliers and heed what I say
Don’t believe Lord Robens when he says he’ll give fair pay
He’ll tell you to work hard and make the output rise
But you’ll get “pie in the sky” instead of a one pound rise.
*Robens was the chief executive of the publicly run National Coal Board
**The output of coal rose by up to 20% by 1962
*** Seven and Six (7s & 6p) would be worth £6.91 per week, as opposed to the 1962 Pound which would be worth £17.92 today.
I’m not sure they get to decide it’s the final offer, as I’m pretty sure they only come to the table because they need their workers back… So either they are suggesting HUGE layoffs (which I’m pretty sure is illegal if the reason is “because they’re striking”?) OR they are bluffing in a poker game with no cards in their hands…
How is it helpful for them to label this the “final” offer.
They’re obviously not willing to accept the consequences of their entire work force quitting when it’s rejected.
If you are on the outside of this dispute looking in ask yourself the question:
Are any of the reforms the government are proposing beneficial to me as a the travelling public?
Less safely checks on the infrastructure
Ticket office closures
Reduction in annual leave
More stringent sickness policy
They seem to have gone back on the idea of getting rid of guards and using a method of dispatch that’s proven to be more dangerous for now but there is some wording that keeps it on the table.
What people really want are more punctual trains and cheaper fares. None of those would be addressed with their proposed reforms. There are many common sense solutions to the punctual running of trains that the TOCs and government simply do not care about.
I wonder how many ‘best and final’ offers there has been up to this point.
No pasarán
Rail fares going up by 5.9% in March
Rail companies are making profit with taxpayer subsidies, our money
This offer is pathetic and anyone with eyes can see it
So offer yet more pay cuts? Time for a National Strike!!!
Train drivers earn 65k on average and have zero transferable skills (due to a job that could be done by a 13 year old.) so they’re going no where.
The other jobs are min wage low skill roles that again could be done by anyone who fancies a job. I guess you choose if you prefer Tesco, McDonald’s or being a train conductor but the pay should be about the same.
Why would the companies negotiate?
The train drivers in the Uk are some of the highest paid in Europe but you wouldn’t know it from their rhetoric.
When we were on strike last year we got 9 “final” offers, doesn’t mean anything when they say final.
I see the “deal” as well as including job cuts bangs on about clamping down on sickness and sick pay.
On the face of it this may seem reasonable but remember that all railway employees are bound by the alcohol and drugs act 1992.
“So what??” you say. “What does that have to do with it – we don’t want railway workers smoking weed or drinking beer???”
The act also refers to legal drugs which includes over the counter and prescription medicine? If there is a risk of drowsiness, the medication contains any opiate or ethanol or similar then you cannot work.
Work in an office and got a bad back or feeling a bit rough? Take some codine or night nurse and get into work. Take that stuff on the railway and it is treated exactly the same as though you have done coke or necked a bottle of vodka if caught. Dismissal and possibly prosecution.
Had a tooth out? You can’t work on lidocaine or some of the antibiotics for the same reason.
So the upshot is that rail workers often have to go sick for stuff that most people in most jobs would not. And often with some of the medication it is 48 – 72 hours clear of it too.
They are so fucking well paid over the years, better than pretty much every European country, and yet they fucking refuse to work. Lazy greedy bunch of arsholes.
It’s the best and final pay often until they decline it and they’ve got to make another.
It was just reported the other day that it’s cost the U.K. more money than if they’d just given them what they wanted on first mention.
And guess what, won’t be too long before the same thing happens with the NHS.
But by all means, fail to learn your lesson and just waste money.
“We are declining because accepting sets a precedent”. Matching pay to inflation so nobody in the country gets a pay cut in real terms by the end of the year isn’t a precedent that should need setting. It should be a right. Berlin (?) does it. So should we. So should everyone. It should be global.
Lol final offer. Or what, you are going to fire all strikes workers amd cease operation? Not only it is illegal, it is not profitable.
Lots of highly charged opinions here. However few concepts to think about :
– Whoever had anything good to say about our trains?
– Is there a correlation between ticket price and quality of service?
– Who is absorbing the ever-growing cost of maintenance?
– Does the public value trains, or are they just forced to use them due to a lack of options?
– Are staff replacable?
– Are changes in technology naturally reducing need?
– Are commuter routines changing with rising trends in WFH?
– Are alternative transport options in the next 10-15 years a threat to rail?
The point is: are unions ‘over-self valuing’ the need for the service, quality of product, skillset required, reliability and affordability VS every other option a potential customer may have going forward?
Final, as in renationalization as they clearly can’t run a company?
In my opinion, the way to make this functional but still have industrial action is to continue to provide the service, still go to work but take no fairs . Open all the barriers let people on for free.
25 comments
>including a pay rise of 9% over two years
So payrise of 4.5% this ear AKA 6.5% real terms pay cut
Without knowing the additional terms it’s still shit.
Its like they’re offering deals from a script, the one offered to postal works was termed “the best and final offer” as well
Agreement hinges on changes to working conditions AGAIN. Basically asking the unions to agree to slightly more money but less than they are owed, for their job to get shitter. Why isn’t this more emphasised?
I’ve just read the terms, they’re unacceptable. Potentially selling out colleagues jobs for a way below inflation rise.
I hope the rail workers consider the few extra pounds worth all the innocent people they’ve screwed over and livelihoods they’ve impacted. Hope it was worth all the extra CO2 from people who have now given up on trains and will in future drive or fly instead.
[deleted]
As I understand it it was more about the terms. As there was going to be loads of job cuts.
Saying that though when I read that Rotas had to still be approved by unions each month that took me back a bit
I was listening to a station guard on the radio and he was saying his job will be gone with the new terms.
Did the rail companies learn how to negotiate by watching ‘Flog it!’ ?
In nineteen and sixty, a long time ago
The Mineworker’s leaders to Lord Robens* did go
Saying, “We work very hard, every day we risk our lives
We ask you here and now for a pound a week rise.”
Then up spoke Lord Robens and made this decree
Saying, “When the output rises, then I’ll agree
To raise up your wages, give to you fair pay
I was once a miner’s man myself in my day.”
The miners they went homeward and worked hard and well
With their lungs filled with coal dust in the bosom of hell
The output rose fifteen per cent and eighteen and more
Till after two years had gone it rose above a score**.
The Mineworkers leaders went for their hard-won prize
To ask Lord Robens for their pound a week rise
But Robens wouldn’t give a pound – he wouldn’t give ten bob
He gave them seven and six and said, “ Get back to your job.”
Come all of you colliers and heed what I say
Don’t believe Lord Robens when he says he’ll give fair pay
He’ll tell you to work hard and make the output rise
But you’ll get “pie in the sky” instead of a one pound rise.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlQfHpujIW4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlQfHpujIW4) – The Pound a Week Rise
*Robens was the chief executive of the publicly run National Coal Board
**The output of coal rose by up to 20% by 1962
*** Seven and Six (7s & 6p) would be worth £6.91 per week, as opposed to the 1962 Pound which would be worth £17.92 today.
I’m not sure they get to decide it’s the final offer, as I’m pretty sure they only come to the table because they need their workers back… So either they are suggesting HUGE layoffs (which I’m pretty sure is illegal if the reason is “because they’re striking”?) OR they are bluffing in a poker game with no cards in their hands…
How is it helpful for them to label this the “final” offer.
They’re obviously not willing to accept the consequences of their entire work force quitting when it’s rejected.
If you are on the outside of this dispute looking in ask yourself the question:
Are any of the reforms the government are proposing beneficial to me as a the travelling public?
Less safely checks on the infrastructure
Ticket office closures
Reduction in annual leave
More stringent sickness policy
They seem to have gone back on the idea of getting rid of guards and using a method of dispatch that’s proven to be more dangerous for now but there is some wording that keeps it on the table.
What people really want are more punctual trains and cheaper fares. None of those would be addressed with their proposed reforms. There are many common sense solutions to the punctual running of trains that the TOCs and government simply do not care about.
I wonder how many ‘best and final’ offers there has been up to this point.
No pasarán
Rail fares going up by 5.9% in March
Rail companies are making profit with taxpayer subsidies, our money
This offer is pathetic and anyone with eyes can see it
So offer yet more pay cuts? Time for a National Strike!!!
Train drivers earn 65k on average and have zero transferable skills (due to a job that could be done by a 13 year old.) so they’re going no where.
The other jobs are min wage low skill roles that again could be done by anyone who fancies a job. I guess you choose if you prefer Tesco, McDonald’s or being a train conductor but the pay should be about the same.
Why would the companies negotiate?
The train drivers in the Uk are some of the highest paid in Europe but you wouldn’t know it from their rhetoric.
When we were on strike last year we got 9 “final” offers, doesn’t mean anything when they say final.
I see the “deal” as well as including job cuts bangs on about clamping down on sickness and sick pay.
On the face of it this may seem reasonable but remember that all railway employees are bound by the alcohol and drugs act 1992.
“So what??” you say. “What does that have to do with it – we don’t want railway workers smoking weed or drinking beer???”
The act also refers to legal drugs which includes over the counter and prescription medicine? If there is a risk of drowsiness, the medication contains any opiate or ethanol or similar then you cannot work.
Work in an office and got a bad back or feeling a bit rough? Take some codine or night nurse and get into work. Take that stuff on the railway and it is treated exactly the same as though you have done coke or necked a bottle of vodka if caught. Dismissal and possibly prosecution.
Had a tooth out? You can’t work on lidocaine or some of the antibiotics for the same reason.
So the upshot is that rail workers often have to go sick for stuff that most people in most jobs would not. And often with some of the medication it is 48 – 72 hours clear of it too.
They are so fucking well paid over the years, better than pretty much every European country, and yet they fucking refuse to work. Lazy greedy bunch of arsholes.
It’s the best and final pay often until they decline it and they’ve got to make another.
It was just reported the other day that it’s cost the U.K. more money than if they’d just given them what they wanted on first mention.
And guess what, won’t be too long before the same thing happens with the NHS.
But by all means, fail to learn your lesson and just waste money.
“We are declining because accepting sets a precedent”. Matching pay to inflation so nobody in the country gets a pay cut in real terms by the end of the year isn’t a precedent that should need setting. It should be a right. Berlin (?) does it. So should we. So should everyone. It should be global.
Lol final offer. Or what, you are going to fire all strikes workers amd cease operation? Not only it is illegal, it is not profitable.
Lots of highly charged opinions here. However few concepts to think about :
– Whoever had anything good to say about our trains?
– Is there a correlation between ticket price and quality of service?
– Who is absorbing the ever-growing cost of maintenance?
– Does the public value trains, or are they just forced to use them due to a lack of options?
– Are staff replacable?
– Are changes in technology naturally reducing need?
– Are commuter routines changing with rising trends in WFH?
– Are alternative transport options in the next 10-15 years a threat to rail?
The point is: are unions ‘over-self valuing’ the need for the service, quality of product, skillset required, reliability and affordability VS every other option a potential customer may have going forward?
Final, as in renationalization as they clearly can’t run a company?
In my opinion, the way to make this functional but still have industrial action is to continue to provide the service, still go to work but take no fairs . Open all the barriers let people on for free.