On November 30, Commander of the Land Forces Martin Wijnen and his German colleague Alfons Mais signed a statement in Dresden stating that the major combat units of the German and Dutch Army must be fully merged.
The plan marks a milestone in a decade of ever-closer collaboration. In the past decade, two army brigades have already integrated with a German division, a larger group of troops.
Well, it says in the still confidential Common Army Vision Where NRC has taken note of this, the 13th Light Brigade from Oirschot must also come under German command. With this, all Dutch brigades will soon be part of a German division and the Royal Netherlands Army and the German Gentleman the core of their combat power in one bi-national force of three divisions – some 50,000 soldiers.
Being happy about German mobilisation and larger military budgets is new for Denmark.
I never knew!? That’s awesome
Instead of shouting for an ‘army for europe’, this is one way to actually get there.
I think the main priority is that all European countries honor the 2% army budget. Spain has not accomplished this but it’s now at 1.8%. That is a step I guess.
On a political scale, yeay!
To put it into effect is a horror show, the German army culture couldn’t be more different then how the Dutch army operates.
Edit: Someone pointed out I gave a bit too much inside information on the way the German and Dutch army operates, and I stond corrected. I deleted my following posts and removed the extra information from this one. Sorry.
If you can’t beat them, join them!
While the integration of Land forces sounds great I would have imagined integrating the Air Forces would have been simpler and made more sense as a first step. Or even the Navys. I was aware of all this army integration between the Netherlands and Germany but its very hard to find any proper articles how far the integration is by now.
The Dutch forces immediately got to work replacing the machine guns on their tanks with painted broom handles.
Have the Dutch and Germans been ruminating about this for a while?
It will be interesting to see what the overall command structure will look like.
Cool, now lets get Belgium.
On a more serious note, hope more join. We got the navy with Belgium and now this with Germany. We do sky patrols with Belgium and Luxembourg.
Only way the EU can keep up is merging, and i really do prefer Italy, Poland, Greece or w/e over some Chinese, Indian or next crazy US president.
Next austria and Czechia s
I translated the full article for those interested:
> # Netherlands and Germany combine their land forces
> ## Defence cooperation – The commanders of the Dutch and German land forces have decided: the combat units will be merged.
> The German and Dutch officers present felt it was a historic moment.
> On Nov. 30 in Dresden, Commander of the Land Forces Martin Wijnen and his German counterpart Alfons Mais put their signatures to a declaration declaring that the major combat units of the German and Dutch land forces should be fully merged.
> The plan is a milestone in 10 years of increasingly close cooperation. In the past decade, two land force brigades already integrated with a German division, a larger force alliance.
> Now, according to the still confidential *Common Army Vision* of which NRC has knowledge, the 13th Light Brigade from Oirschot should also come under German command. With this, soon all Dutch brigades will be part of a German division, and the Royal Army and the German *Heer* will have combined the core of their combat power into one bi-national force of three divisions – some 50,000 soldiers.
> ### Achievement
> The importance of the Dresden agreements can hardly be overstated. Although there is cooperation at all sorts of levels within NATO, Germany and the Netherlands are the first countries willing to almost completely combine their land forces. A feat that seems to have dawned on few yet, according to Deputy Army Commander Jean-Paul Duckers at Army Headquarters in Utrecht. “A lot of people don’t realize how unique it is what we do.”
> Politicians, too, have yet to comment on the planned *Tiefintegration*. Both the coalition agreement and the 2022 Defense Paper merely state that the armed forces of Germany and the Netherlands will continue to “integrate.” In response to the question of what this means, Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren (D66) wrote to the House of Representatives in September that housing the 13th Brigade with the German 10th Armored Division “is being investigated.”
> The Ministry of Defense has been particularly busy over the past year with military support to Ukraine and the distribution of the additional billions of euros that have suddenly become available. When asked, a spokesman for the department let it be known that no political decision has yet been made. The Common Army Vision is an “intention,” the department said.
> Meanwhile, the military leadership of both land forces is already busy planning. “In the coming year we will integrate the Dutch 13th Light Brigade into the 10th German Armored Division” General Mais said in a video message following the signing of the agreements in Dresden. His colleague Wijnen nodded in agreement.
> On April 1, a major German reorganization will take effect. A good time, so it sounds at the headquarters of the land forces in Utrecht, to put the 13th Brigade under command and mark the German-Dutch integration with military ceremony.
> ### Daily contact
> At this – brand new – Army headquarters at the Kromhout Barracks, one does not immediately notice how far the cooperation of the Royal Army and the *Deutsche Heer* has already progressed. But German officers are already working in Utrecht. Conversely, at the German counterpart, the Kommando Heer in Strausberg near Berlin, Dutch staff officers are already active. There are a lot of phone calls, Duckers says. “There is daily contact.”
> The deputy commander of land forces witnessed up close how the cooperation gained momentum. Both sides, Duckers says, saw mainly advantages. For example, the Netherlands – which disposed of its last tanks in 2011 – was able to maintain knowledge and expertise about operating the Leopard 2 thanks to cooperation with Germany. Because the 43rd Mechanized Brigade became part of the 1st Armored Division, the Army can have 18 Germany tanks at its disposal, in a mixed German-Dutch unit.
> There is also much to gain for the Germans. With the increased threat from the East, the emphasis has returned to collective defense, and for this, large army formations such as divisions (10 to 20,000 soldiers) are indispensable.
> The ready division still available to the Royal Army was cut in 2005. The Bundeswehr still has a divisional structure, but due to budget cuts and chronic personnel shortages, the three German divisions are severely understaffed. By “hanging” the three Dutch brigades under the German divisions, a formidable joint army force is created.
> ### ‘Sovereignty comes first’
> To enable this force to fight as well as possible, the Netherlands and Germany want to remove as many barriers as possible. Currently, Germany and the Netherlands still have different weapon systems, but in the Common Army Vision it has been agreed that from now on military equipment will be purchased together as much as possible. The doctrines and regulations of both organizations will also be standardized. As a result, German soldiers will soon be able to shoot with Dutch ammunition and German mechanics will be able to work on Dutch vehicles. Although both organizations still have their own financial flows, a financial mechanism already exists to quickly settle costs with each other.
> For now, both land forces will keep their own equipment and ammunition stocks, Duckers said. “But I don’t rule out the possibility that in the future we will do the same together.”
> When asked, Duckers nods affirmatively: the only things that can be merged right now are the two army staffs in Utrecht and Strausberg. But the deputy commander of the land forces does not want to speak of a “merger” or “takeover. “We are talking about the cooperation of two completely equal partners, where the sovereignty of both countries is paramount.”
> The general points to the 11th Air Mobile Brigade, part of a German division since 2014, which is providing soldiers for a French-led battalion in Romania to reinforce NATO’s southern flank.
> “We can still do our own missions,” Duckers said. Admittedly, this does now require prior consultation with German headquarters. Given the increasing importance of collective defense, this makes sense, Duckers believes. “The time when we only participated in wars of choice, such as in Afghanistan, is behind us. And if you take allied defense seriously, when it comes down to it you have to be able to do something. Then you can’t say: unfortunately, our units are in Verweggistan.”
> General Duckers looks at his watch: he has now been talking for over two hours. On the wall behind him hangs a man-sized painting of Prince Bernhard von Lippe-Biesterfeld, clad in the grand attire of the Dutch cavalry. On the sideboard are three stray flags on wooden feet: two Dutch and one German. For nearly forty years now he has been wearing the green suit, Duckers muses, stirring his coffee. “At the time, I couldn’t possibly have imagined that we would ever take this step.”
What will the netherlands do if the nazi’s are taking over germany for a second time?
Nothing new, this is a process that begun on 2015 and should continue with the integration of naval forces too.
The 13th light brigade is the last one that was still to pass under german command.
When the agreements was signed, in 2015, british prime minister Cameron expressed his doubts about this kind of agreements (Great Britain has historically a great influence on the Benelux area).
15 comments
On November 30, Commander of the Land Forces Martin Wijnen and his German colleague Alfons Mais signed a statement in Dresden stating that the major combat units of the German and Dutch Army must be fully merged.
The plan marks a milestone in a decade of ever-closer collaboration. In the past decade, two army brigades have already integrated with a German division, a larger group of troops.
Well, it says in the still confidential Common Army Vision Where NRC has taken note of this, the 13th Light Brigade from Oirschot must also come under German command. With this, all Dutch brigades will soon be part of a German division and the Royal Netherlands Army and the German Gentleman the core of their combat power in one bi-national force of three divisions – some 50,000 soldiers.
original & first source In Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/01/31/nederland-en-duitsland-bundelen-hun-landmachten-a4155834
Being happy about German mobilisation and larger military budgets is new for Denmark.
I never knew!? That’s awesome
Instead of shouting for an ‘army for europe’, this is one way to actually get there.
I think the main priority is that all European countries honor the 2% army budget. Spain has not accomplished this but it’s now at 1.8%. That is a step I guess.
On a political scale, yeay!
To put it into effect is a horror show, the German army culture couldn’t be more different then how the Dutch army operates.
Edit: Someone pointed out I gave a bit too much inside information on the way the German and Dutch army operates, and I stond corrected. I deleted my following posts and removed the extra information from this one. Sorry.
If you can’t beat them, join them!
While the integration of Land forces sounds great I would have imagined integrating the Air Forces would have been simpler and made more sense as a first step. Or even the Navys. I was aware of all this army integration between the Netherlands and Germany but its very hard to find any proper articles how far the integration is by now.
The Dutch forces immediately got to work replacing the machine guns on their tanks with painted broom handles.
Have the Dutch and Germans been ruminating about this for a while?
It will be interesting to see what the overall command structure will look like.
Cool, now lets get Belgium.
On a more serious note, hope more join. We got the navy with Belgium and now this with Germany. We do sky patrols with Belgium and Luxembourg.
Only way the EU can keep up is merging, and i really do prefer Italy, Poland, Greece or w/e over some Chinese, Indian or next crazy US president.
Next austria and Czechia s
I translated the full article for those interested:
> # Netherlands and Germany combine their land forces
> ## Defence cooperation – The commanders of the Dutch and German land forces have decided: the combat units will be merged.
> The German and Dutch officers present felt it was a historic moment.
> On Nov. 30 in Dresden, Commander of the Land Forces Martin Wijnen and his German counterpart Alfons Mais put their signatures to a declaration declaring that the major combat units of the German and Dutch land forces should be fully merged.
> The plan is a milestone in 10 years of increasingly close cooperation. In the past decade, two land force brigades already integrated with a German division, a larger force alliance.
> Now, according to the still confidential *Common Army Vision* of which NRC has knowledge, the 13th Light Brigade from Oirschot should also come under German command. With this, soon all Dutch brigades will be part of a German division, and the Royal Army and the German *Heer* will have combined the core of their combat power into one bi-national force of three divisions – some 50,000 soldiers.
> ### Achievement
> The importance of the Dresden agreements can hardly be overstated. Although there is cooperation at all sorts of levels within NATO, Germany and the Netherlands are the first countries willing to almost completely combine their land forces. A feat that seems to have dawned on few yet, according to Deputy Army Commander Jean-Paul Duckers at Army Headquarters in Utrecht. “A lot of people don’t realize how unique it is what we do.”
> Politicians, too, have yet to comment on the planned *Tiefintegration*. Both the coalition agreement and the 2022 Defense Paper merely state that the armed forces of Germany and the Netherlands will continue to “integrate.” In response to the question of what this means, Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren (D66) wrote to the House of Representatives in September that housing the 13th Brigade with the German 10th Armored Division “is being investigated.”
> The Ministry of Defense has been particularly busy over the past year with military support to Ukraine and the distribution of the additional billions of euros that have suddenly become available. When asked, a spokesman for the department let it be known that no political decision has yet been made. The Common Army Vision is an “intention,” the department said.
> Meanwhile, the military leadership of both land forces is already busy planning. “In the coming year we will integrate the Dutch 13th Light Brigade into the 10th German Armored Division” General Mais said in a video message following the signing of the agreements in Dresden. His colleague Wijnen nodded in agreement.
> On April 1, a major German reorganization will take effect. A good time, so it sounds at the headquarters of the land forces in Utrecht, to put the 13th Brigade under command and mark the German-Dutch integration with military ceremony.
> ### Daily contact
> At this – brand new – Army headquarters at the Kromhout Barracks, one does not immediately notice how far the cooperation of the Royal Army and the *Deutsche Heer* has already progressed. But German officers are already working in Utrecht. Conversely, at the German counterpart, the Kommando Heer in Strausberg near Berlin, Dutch staff officers are already active. There are a lot of phone calls, Duckers says. “There is daily contact.”
> The deputy commander of land forces witnessed up close how the cooperation gained momentum. Both sides, Duckers says, saw mainly advantages. For example, the Netherlands – which disposed of its last tanks in 2011 – was able to maintain knowledge and expertise about operating the Leopard 2 thanks to cooperation with Germany. Because the 43rd Mechanized Brigade became part of the 1st Armored Division, the Army can have 18 Germany tanks at its disposal, in a mixed German-Dutch unit.
> There is also much to gain for the Germans. With the increased threat from the East, the emphasis has returned to collective defense, and for this, large army formations such as divisions (10 to 20,000 soldiers) are indispensable.
> The ready division still available to the Royal Army was cut in 2005. The Bundeswehr still has a divisional structure, but due to budget cuts and chronic personnel shortages, the three German divisions are severely understaffed. By “hanging” the three Dutch brigades under the German divisions, a formidable joint army force is created.
> ### ‘Sovereignty comes first’
> To enable this force to fight as well as possible, the Netherlands and Germany want to remove as many barriers as possible. Currently, Germany and the Netherlands still have different weapon systems, but in the Common Army Vision it has been agreed that from now on military equipment will be purchased together as much as possible. The doctrines and regulations of both organizations will also be standardized. As a result, German soldiers will soon be able to shoot with Dutch ammunition and German mechanics will be able to work on Dutch vehicles. Although both organizations still have their own financial flows, a financial mechanism already exists to quickly settle costs with each other.
> For now, both land forces will keep their own equipment and ammunition stocks, Duckers said. “But I don’t rule out the possibility that in the future we will do the same together.”
> When asked, Duckers nods affirmatively: the only things that can be merged right now are the two army staffs in Utrecht and Strausberg. But the deputy commander of the land forces does not want to speak of a “merger” or “takeover. “We are talking about the cooperation of two completely equal partners, where the sovereignty of both countries is paramount.”
> The general points to the 11th Air Mobile Brigade, part of a German division since 2014, which is providing soldiers for a French-led battalion in Romania to reinforce NATO’s southern flank.
> “We can still do our own missions,” Duckers said. Admittedly, this does now require prior consultation with German headquarters. Given the increasing importance of collective defense, this makes sense, Duckers believes. “The time when we only participated in wars of choice, such as in Afghanistan, is behind us. And if you take allied defense seriously, when it comes down to it you have to be able to do something. Then you can’t say: unfortunately, our units are in Verweggistan.”
> General Duckers looks at his watch: he has now been talking for over two hours. On the wall behind him hangs a man-sized painting of Prince Bernhard von Lippe-Biesterfeld, clad in the grand attire of the Dutch cavalry. On the sideboard are three stray flags on wooden feet: two Dutch and one German. For nearly forty years now he has been wearing the green suit, Duckers muses, stirring his coffee. “At the time, I couldn’t possibly have imagined that we would ever take this step.”
The article also comes with a nice infographic showing the new army structure:
https://imgur.com/a/2f7Qx7B
What will the netherlands do if the nazi’s are taking over germany for a second time?
Nothing new, this is a process that begun on 2015 and should continue with the integration of naval forces too.
The 13th light brigade is the last one that was still to pass under german command.
When the agreements was signed, in 2015, british prime minister Cameron expressed his doubts about this kind of agreements (Great Britain has historically a great influence on the Benelux area).