I feel like we should get this problem under control but not like this. As stated in the article it’ll lead to people not going to the emergency out of financial reasons.
I believe we should have more Arztpraxen/Zentren that have (non-swiss) opening times where you can get stitches on a sunday or get an x-ray on a thursday at 8pm without having to go to the ER. And bless the Hausarztsystem but if you have doctors making you come in for literally every stupid shit even though you could get it discussed on the phone, this generates even more costs.
There is still too many people involved making too much money it drives me nuts…What is your opinion on this?
The issue isn’t stitches or XRays… It’s going to emergency for flu, cold or because your knee hurts…
However I agree this isn’t the solution… Maybe some people need education… You’ve got a headache for 3 hours? No need for emergency… You’ve got 39C fever? No need for emergency. You fell and hurt your knee but you can still walk ? No need for emergency…
Go to emergency on Sunday and look around… 90% of people there have nothing… They look totally fine (not dying)… But when I went with a severe infection they made me wait 6 hours because of those MF going to emergency for a sprained ankle. “But it hurts sir, I can’t wait until tomorrow to go check with my doctor”… And what did the doctor say when he checked me? “WTF? Why did you wait that long to come to emergency?”
In the US, most insurance companies will make you pay $200 – $500 if you go to the Emergency Room for something that didn’t warrant it. It has helped some. 50 sFr is mice nuts.
bagatell…..
notfall…..
​
doesn’t fit, simple as that.
Don’t know if you should go to the Emergency? [Aerztefon.ch](https://Aerztefon.ch) is your friend, give them a call, get consulted and see what they say. In most cases, an emergency visit is not needed.
Thanks to the expats who always go straight to the emergency…
50 CHF sind definitiv zu wenig
exactly this:
>Praktisch jede lebensgefährliche Infektionskrankheit beginnt mit harmlosen Symptomen. Im Zweifelsfall wird eine Ärztin deshalb einen Notfall nicht als Bagatelle beurteilen.
i had black rain in my sight a couple of years ago, during christmas night, i think it even was a sunday, this is a sign that the retina is peeling off you eye and needs immediate attention. i went to the emergency (only the second time in all my life and first time in decades)
when there, they did not find the worst case. in fact they could not find a reason at all, even though one of my pupils was super dilated, while the other was normal.
they attributed this to a micro stroke or something and put me into the mri (iirc, its been years) either way nothing came of it. they did not figure out what is wrong with me, gave me some pain meds and send me home, with the instruction to come back if something bad happens again.
well here i am years later nothing bad ever happened again. but i was let go, with the explanation that everything is fine. so in general, i would have not needed to go to the emergency. and thus this case was not a case for the emergency room, but at the same time, black rain is always something you need to act upon! So should i pay 50 for that!
I agree 50 is not much for me and i can pay it no problem, but other people might not be able to, do we really want even 1 more blind person because they could not pay such a bill!?
I’ve been to the ER twice recently with sudden abdominal pain in the middle of the night. One time it was indigestion, the other time I needed an emergency 6-am appendectomy. There is no way I could have diagnosed myself at home as symptom-wise they were identical.
I used to work for an out of hours medical line in the U.K. and you would not believe how many people were too afraid to go to the hospital and getting in trouble for wasting their time despite having symptoms of sepsis, heart attack or stroke (each of which can seem quite mild out of context). Maybe that person with a sore leg has a life threatening thrombosis, or maybe the person with a sore throat has a huge abscess about to burst into their bloodstream.
In hindsight it’s easy to say after they have been examined by a doctor that some people should have gone elsewhere, but if it was really so easy to tell then you could just have the receptionist telling people to go home.
Maybe solution would be to encourage triage nurses to send people home to go to their GPs?
On the other hand, if they misunderstood something and it ended being worse than it looked, chances are they’ll be held responsible, and no one wants to do that to themselves.
So, if triage nurses aren’t competent and don’t dare to send someone back, how we, non nurses could even try to figure it out?
So maybe we need additional triage doctors, or more education for triage nurses? I mean, if talking to medgate/artztelefon could be a good measure to decide if it is for ER or can wait GP opening times or even regular slot (my GP has several days waiting times plus only works several days, so, it often means a week from when you ask), then it seems that triage nurses lack knowledge to be able to do so, especially since they can even see issues, and don’t have to rely on description alone.
Or just have more ER doctors…
Wieso werden nicht Ärzte für Bagatellfälle im Notfall beschäftigt? Inkl. Infrastruktur und ordentlicher Triage? Wäre auch effizienter wie dutzende Hausarztpraxen.
Zum Arzt müssen / wollen die Leute sowieso.
In meiner Region suche ich seit 2 Jahren einen Hausarzt, keiner nimmt neue Patienten an.
50.- für den Notfall verlangen aber die richtigen Probleme im Gesundheitswesen nicht angehen… Ich bin skeptisch.
People from different countries who live in Switzerland for a short period of time are often not aware of how the system works. In their country of origin it is usually expected to visit the ER even for minor things and/or they don’t have a family doctor to consult. So their solution is to go to the ER.
And then there are also those MF who come to the ER in the middle of the night with a minor itch in their ass crack for like 24h and do the „Sterbender Schwan“.
I am in the business for like nearly 20 years now. And it is not getting any better.
My solution as an ER physician is to just let them wait for hours and hours and then some.
Telemedicine or a consultation on video with a doctor should be a required first step unless you’re bleeding nonstop, have breathing difficulties or have chest pains BEFORE going to Emergency in person.
No available stats about who abuses. Everybody knows that not everybody will pay : illégal migrants, “cas sociaux”, etc. Once again only the middle class will be charged the most.
For the lazy ones; 50 bucks if you were to go in for a bagatelle, this is not a supposed upfront payment
Raise it to 1000.- but only for the ridiculous cases (flu, headaches 38°c fever, etc) there are too many such idiots
Every time I went was straight after an accident where I thought checking for a broken bone or severe muscle damages was important, because I have fucked up pain receptors (I can’t feel injuries well, but stuff like a random cluster headache make me want to die) and never broke something so when I got a bone bruise, that was a horrible pain I ever felt outside of headaches and jesus christ was I relieved it was just a bone bruise.
Maybe because normal doctors don’t accept appointments on short notice? Some people need a receipt from the doctor for the same day. What other option is there besides going to Permanence or the emergency room?
19 comments
I feel like we should get this problem under control but not like this. As stated in the article it’ll lead to people not going to the emergency out of financial reasons.
I believe we should have more Arztpraxen/Zentren that have (non-swiss) opening times where you can get stitches on a sunday or get an x-ray on a thursday at 8pm without having to go to the ER. And bless the Hausarztsystem but if you have doctors making you come in for literally every stupid shit even though you could get it discussed on the phone, this generates even more costs.
There is still too many people involved making too much money it drives me nuts…What is your opinion on this?
The issue isn’t stitches or XRays… It’s going to emergency for flu, cold or because your knee hurts…
However I agree this isn’t the solution… Maybe some people need education… You’ve got a headache for 3 hours? No need for emergency… You’ve got 39C fever? No need for emergency. You fell and hurt your knee but you can still walk ? No need for emergency…
Go to emergency on Sunday and look around… 90% of people there have nothing… They look totally fine (not dying)… But when I went with a severe infection they made me wait 6 hours because of those MF going to emergency for a sprained ankle. “But it hurts sir, I can’t wait until tomorrow to go check with my doctor”… And what did the doctor say when he checked me? “WTF? Why did you wait that long to come to emergency?”
In the US, most insurance companies will make you pay $200 – $500 if you go to the Emergency Room for something that didn’t warrant it. It has helped some. 50 sFr is mice nuts.
bagatell…..
notfall…..
​
doesn’t fit, simple as that.
Don’t know if you should go to the Emergency? [Aerztefon.ch](https://Aerztefon.ch) is your friend, give them a call, get consulted and see what they say. In most cases, an emergency visit is not needed.
Thanks to the expats who always go straight to the emergency…
50 CHF sind definitiv zu wenig
exactly this:
>Praktisch jede lebensgefährliche Infektionskrankheit beginnt mit harmlosen Symptomen. Im Zweifelsfall wird eine Ärztin deshalb einen Notfall nicht als Bagatelle beurteilen.
i had black rain in my sight a couple of years ago, during christmas night, i think it even was a sunday, this is a sign that the retina is peeling off you eye and needs immediate attention. i went to the emergency (only the second time in all my life and first time in decades)
when there, they did not find the worst case. in fact they could not find a reason at all, even though one of my pupils was super dilated, while the other was normal.
they attributed this to a micro stroke or something and put me into the mri (iirc, its been years) either way nothing came of it. they did not figure out what is wrong with me, gave me some pain meds and send me home, with the instruction to come back if something bad happens again.
well here i am years later nothing bad ever happened again. but i was let go, with the explanation that everything is fine. so in general, i would have not needed to go to the emergency. and thus this case was not a case for the emergency room, but at the same time, black rain is always something you need to act upon! So should i pay 50 for that!
I agree 50 is not much for me and i can pay it no problem, but other people might not be able to, do we really want even 1 more blind person because they could not pay such a bill!?
I’ve been to the ER twice recently with sudden abdominal pain in the middle of the night. One time it was indigestion, the other time I needed an emergency 6-am appendectomy. There is no way I could have diagnosed myself at home as symptom-wise they were identical.
I used to work for an out of hours medical line in the U.K. and you would not believe how many people were too afraid to go to the hospital and getting in trouble for wasting their time despite having symptoms of sepsis, heart attack or stroke (each of which can seem quite mild out of context). Maybe that person with a sore leg has a life threatening thrombosis, or maybe the person with a sore throat has a huge abscess about to burst into their bloodstream.
In hindsight it’s easy to say after they have been examined by a doctor that some people should have gone elsewhere, but if it was really so easy to tell then you could just have the receptionist telling people to go home.
Maybe solution would be to encourage triage nurses to send people home to go to their GPs?
On the other hand, if they misunderstood something and it ended being worse than it looked, chances are they’ll be held responsible, and no one wants to do that to themselves.
So, if triage nurses aren’t competent and don’t dare to send someone back, how we, non nurses could even try to figure it out?
So maybe we need additional triage doctors, or more education for triage nurses? I mean, if talking to medgate/artztelefon could be a good measure to decide if it is for ER or can wait GP opening times or even regular slot (my GP has several days waiting times plus only works several days, so, it often means a week from when you ask), then it seems that triage nurses lack knowledge to be able to do so, especially since they can even see issues, and don’t have to rely on description alone.
Or just have more ER doctors…
Wieso werden nicht Ärzte für Bagatellfälle im Notfall beschäftigt? Inkl. Infrastruktur und ordentlicher Triage? Wäre auch effizienter wie dutzende Hausarztpraxen.
Zum Arzt müssen / wollen die Leute sowieso.
In meiner Region suche ich seit 2 Jahren einen Hausarzt, keiner nimmt neue Patienten an.
50.- für den Notfall verlangen aber die richtigen Probleme im Gesundheitswesen nicht angehen… Ich bin skeptisch.
People from different countries who live in Switzerland for a short period of time are often not aware of how the system works. In their country of origin it is usually expected to visit the ER even for minor things and/or they don’t have a family doctor to consult. So their solution is to go to the ER.
And then there are also those MF who come to the ER in the middle of the night with a minor itch in their ass crack for like 24h and do the „Sterbender Schwan“.
I am in the business for like nearly 20 years now. And it is not getting any better.
My solution as an ER physician is to just let them wait for hours and hours and then some.
Telemedicine or a consultation on video with a doctor should be a required first step unless you’re bleeding nonstop, have breathing difficulties or have chest pains BEFORE going to Emergency in person.
No available stats about who abuses. Everybody knows that not everybody will pay : illégal migrants, “cas sociaux”, etc. Once again only the middle class will be charged the most.
For the lazy ones; 50 bucks if you were to go in for a bagatelle, this is not a supposed upfront payment
Raise it to 1000.- but only for the ridiculous cases (flu, headaches 38°c fever, etc) there are too many such idiots
Every time I went was straight after an accident where I thought checking for a broken bone or severe muscle damages was important, because I have fucked up pain receptors (I can’t feel injuries well, but stuff like a random cluster headache make me want to die) and never broke something so when I got a bone bruise, that was a horrible pain I ever felt outside of headaches and jesus christ was I relieved it was just a bone bruise.
Maybe because normal doctors don’t accept appointments on short notice? Some people need a receipt from the doctor for the same day. What other option is there besides going to Permanence or the emergency room?