You can play that game all day. Unification would be easier if the DUP didn’t exist. Etc.
And the rest!
Brexit had similar problem with Nigel Farage. Whenever support for UKIP increased, support for Brexit decreased. The problem was known to Tory MPs and so Douglas Carswell switched to UKIP to change its image. If the main proponent of a constitutional change is a group with highly polarised opinion then it can become a roadblock for the change it is proposing.
I think You are trying to reduce a number of debates and discussions by many shareholders to one key issue for one member or party of the debate.
Like the Good Friday agreement the debate on Irish Unification is an all party discussion with an open forum for those involved and affected.
Obviously the size of the participant parties will vary but without inclusive debate You will not get consensus or a general agreement.
I’ll be blunt about it. He’s right.
A United Ireland should be an Ireland for everyone, to meet everyones needs, not just the ethnically Irish majority.
To get the support of a lot of Northern Irish people, some compromises would have to be made. I can list them here.
1.Change the flag to something that’s uniqely and identifiably Irish, but polotically neutral. My pick would be the St. Patricks Saltire.
2.Change the national anthem.
3.Allow the Orange Order to keep existing and allow them to have their parades.
4.Possibly rejoin the Commonwealth, *as a republic* ( like India, Pakistan, South Africa and Singapore. )
5.Get rid of our “up the Ra” mentality.
6.Fix all our “crises” ( housing, crime, cost of living, cannabis, military, hospital staff, environment restoration. )
Right now, it is like this…
Do we want a United Ireland ? Yes.
Are we ready for a United Ireland ? Absolutely not.
And I am being impartial here, incase someone wants to accuse me of Kowtowing to unionists.
Paywalled Article so here’s the text.
—
Reunification would be easier if Sinn Féin didn’t exist, says Irish unity campaigner
Author Paul Gosling says it’s self-defeating for party not to try and make NI a success, but also argues that Stormont is now so dysfunctional it can never work
Ex-Stormont aide Paul Gosling on the dysfunctionality he saw within Stormont and how Irish unity would be easier without Sinn Fein
Sam McBride, Belfast Telegraph
Today at 06:40
Irish unity would now be far more achievable if Sinn Féin didn’t exist, the author of a book arguing in favour of reunification has claimed.
Veteran journalist Paul Gosling is convinced a united Ireland would improve the lives of people here.
The former Labour councillor, who was born in England and was baptised a Protestant, is now an atheist.
Having lived in Londonderry for over two decades, he is dismayed by what he has seen of how this place is run — and also by the behaviour of some of those pushing for reunification.
In an interview for The BelTel podcast, Mr Gosling said a senior Sinn Féin figure had told him he would never try to make Northern Ireland work.
The author of A New Ireland: A Ten Year Plan said this was short-sighted because persuading the Republic to vote in favour of unity and then ensuring the new state worked after a referendum would mean making Northern Ireland less dysfunctional.
Mr Gosling moved to Derry with his then German wife 23 years ago.
He was a Labour councillor in Leicester from 1987 to 1991, often clashing with controversial local MP Keith Vaz, before a high level career in journalism in British broadsheet newspapers.
In 2022 he left a job as an assistant to SDLP MLA Sinead McLaughlin after two years, being horrified by what he observed inside the Stormont system.
“My view [of Stormont] wasn’t as unflattering beforehand as it was afterwards,” he said.
“Everyone knows that Stormont has difficulties, but it is a completely dysfunctional system.
“I was completely appalled. The difficulty getting things done was just astonishing.
“The example which struck me more than anything else was trying to get some gullies cleaned in a part of Derry because they were causing flooding, and more than two years on, they are still blocked. I couldn’t get it done.”
He claimed “the system blocks you”, with a cadre of civil servants who “don’t expect to be told what to do, nor actually will they respond well to being asked in terms of what needs to be done”.
As well as that general inability to deliver good governance, he believes there is a particular neglect west of the Bann — some of which is down to sectarian attitudes, but which is more prevalent as a belief that if Belfast and the east of the province do well, then that will gradually benefit the west of the province.
He said it was easier to get things done as a councillor in England.
In Stormont, he claimed the Civil Service seemed to interpret its role as supporting the DUP and Sinn Féin.
No longer an SDLP member, Mr Gosling nevertheless praised the party, saying Matthew O’Toole was Stormont’s most talented MLA.
But he added “clearly the SDLP has a serious problem”, and its future is to an extent dependent on events beyond its control.
He believes if Sinn Féin entered government in Dublin and didn’t perform as well as expected, it may damage the republican party on both sides of the border.
Mr Gosling described the quality of Sinn Féin’s MLAs and TDs as “not that great”, and even some of the party’s most senior figures who he’d debated with were “not great performers”, something that hadn’t been exposed because: “I think all the parties, and also I think journalism, have let Sinn Féin off the hook a bit.”
When asked if Irish unity would be closer if Sinn Féin did not exist, he said: “Yes, because they don’t do what I’ve just said we need to do.
“I don’t think they properly talk to people from other backgrounds.
“I mean, it’s difficult because Sinn Féin [‘Ourselves alone’] hasn’t got the right name for doing it.
“Some of the things they’re doing, and some of the organisations they support, actually do move things forward.
“I think what Ireland’s Future is doing, for example, is very positive.
“I was doing an event a few years ago where I said: ‘We have to get to a position where both the DUP and Sinn Féin recognise that it’s in their interests to make Northern Ireland work’.
“And the person who was alongside me — who was at the time a very senior person within Sinn Féin — said: ‘There is no way that I will ever do anything to try to make Northern Ireland work’.
“There are parts of Sinn Féin that believe the best prospects for them winning a vote is to make Northern Ireland a failed state, a failure.
“We have to persuade Sinn Féin that it’s not in their interests.”
Paul Gosling’s book sets out how Irish unity could come about
He accepted that was not the position of all in Sinn Féin, nor of its leadership today.
But he argued the party was “a very divided organisation… one of those [divisions] seems to be about whether you want genuinely to make Northern Ireland a place that works”.
Mr Gosling said the party’s IRA baggage was an impediment to persuading some people who otherwise might be open to Irish unity.
The author added he did not believe — as many republicans claim — unity is inevitable.
He said: “It’s not inevitable. I think it is likely, and I think we need to work out what we get out of this.”
While support for a united Ireland has grown from a low base before Brexit, Mr Gosling said he did not believe it was simply a pendulum which might swing back in favour of the Union, “because I think the middle ground is now so large that Northern Ireland can never be a unionist state again”.
He said unity “has to involve the abolition of Stormont… you have to move beyond Stormont” as it doesn’t work, and never will.
Mr Gosling accepted the Republic could probably not afford to take on Northern Ireland right now, given the scale of London’s subsidy for the region.
He advocates a reduction in the number of public sector workers to the levels in the Republic or England — something opposed by both the SDLP and Sinn Féin.
“There is this lazy conversation that we haven’t got enough money,” he said.
“You hear this from Conor Murphy quite a bit in terms of… the health service… that it has been underfunded.
“Well, no, the problem with the health service is not that it has been underfunded; the problem is that we haven’t reformed it… we need to have people in politics that have the guts to say we have to reform things.”
—
Coming from a british website Ironically enough..
Now I don’t claim to know much about reunification plans here but one thing I’m always wondering…is what happens to the NHS?
Do people in Northern Ireland just vote to lose free health care?
Sinn Féin founded in 1905. If only there was a 700 year window where they didn’t exist it would be all sorted.
Reunification would be easier if all of NI politics didn’t exist.
But it does, so fuck it, it all has to be worked with to an extent.
This sub wouldn’t exist either. 😊
YAWN! They’re not the biggest party on the island for nothing! 💪🇮🇪
SF are off brand republicans and surrender-monkeys, according to the British army barracks in Belfast.
*unification
I know the author’s argument is about SF not wanting to make Stormont a success, but there is a simpler argument for SF hindering unification. In order achieve unification they need a majority in the north to vote in favour. As SF become more popular in the Republic the percentage in favour of unification in NI dropped.
Because FF/FG have worked so hard over the last 100 years since partition to end partition
Bloke needs to learn to deal with reality as it is,not what he wishes it is
17 comments
You can play that game all day. Unification would be easier if the DUP didn’t exist. Etc.
And the rest!
Brexit had similar problem with Nigel Farage. Whenever support for UKIP increased, support for Brexit decreased. The problem was known to Tory MPs and so Douglas Carswell switched to UKIP to change its image. If the main proponent of a constitutional change is a group with highly polarised opinion then it can become a roadblock for the change it is proposing.
I think You are trying to reduce a number of debates and discussions by many shareholders to one key issue for one member or party of the debate.
Like the Good Friday agreement the debate on Irish Unification is an all party discussion with an open forum for those involved and affected.
Obviously the size of the participant parties will vary but without inclusive debate You will not get consensus or a general agreement.
I’ll be blunt about it. He’s right.
A United Ireland should be an Ireland for everyone, to meet everyones needs, not just the ethnically Irish majority.
To get the support of a lot of Northern Irish people, some compromises would have to be made. I can list them here.
1.Change the flag to something that’s uniqely and identifiably Irish, but polotically neutral. My pick would be the St. Patricks Saltire.
2.Change the national anthem.
3.Allow the Orange Order to keep existing and allow them to have their parades.
4.Possibly rejoin the Commonwealth, *as a republic* ( like India, Pakistan, South Africa and Singapore. )
5.Get rid of our “up the Ra” mentality.
6.Fix all our “crises” ( housing, crime, cost of living, cannabis, military, hospital staff, environment restoration. )
Right now, it is like this…
Do we want a United Ireland ? Yes.
Are we ready for a United Ireland ? Absolutely not.
And I am being impartial here, incase someone wants to accuse me of Kowtowing to unionists.
Paywalled Article so here’s the text.
—
Reunification would be easier if Sinn Féin didn’t exist, says Irish unity campaigner
Author Paul Gosling says it’s self-defeating for party not to try and make NI a success, but also argues that Stormont is now so dysfunctional it can never work
Ex-Stormont aide Paul Gosling on the dysfunctionality he saw within Stormont and how Irish unity would be easier without Sinn Fein
Sam McBride, Belfast Telegraph
Today at 06:40
Irish unity would now be far more achievable if Sinn Féin didn’t exist, the author of a book arguing in favour of reunification has claimed.
Veteran journalist Paul Gosling is convinced a united Ireland would improve the lives of people here.
The former Labour councillor, who was born in England and was baptised a Protestant, is now an atheist.
Having lived in Londonderry for over two decades, he is dismayed by what he has seen of how this place is run — and also by the behaviour of some of those pushing for reunification.
In an interview for The BelTel podcast, Mr Gosling said a senior Sinn Féin figure had told him he would never try to make Northern Ireland work.
The author of A New Ireland: A Ten Year Plan said this was short-sighted because persuading the Republic to vote in favour of unity and then ensuring the new state worked after a referendum would mean making Northern Ireland less dysfunctional.
Mr Gosling moved to Derry with his then German wife 23 years ago.
He was a Labour councillor in Leicester from 1987 to 1991, often clashing with controversial local MP Keith Vaz, before a high level career in journalism in British broadsheet newspapers.
In 2022 he left a job as an assistant to SDLP MLA Sinead McLaughlin after two years, being horrified by what he observed inside the Stormont system.
“My view [of Stormont] wasn’t as unflattering beforehand as it was afterwards,” he said.
“Everyone knows that Stormont has difficulties, but it is a completely dysfunctional system.
“I was completely appalled. The difficulty getting things done was just astonishing.
“The example which struck me more than anything else was trying to get some gullies cleaned in a part of Derry because they were causing flooding, and more than two years on, they are still blocked. I couldn’t get it done.”
He claimed “the system blocks you”, with a cadre of civil servants who “don’t expect to be told what to do, nor actually will they respond well to being asked in terms of what needs to be done”.
As well as that general inability to deliver good governance, he believes there is a particular neglect west of the Bann — some of which is down to sectarian attitudes, but which is more prevalent as a belief that if Belfast and the east of the province do well, then that will gradually benefit the west of the province.
He said it was easier to get things done as a councillor in England.
In Stormont, he claimed the Civil Service seemed to interpret its role as supporting the DUP and Sinn Féin.
No longer an SDLP member, Mr Gosling nevertheless praised the party, saying Matthew O’Toole was Stormont’s most talented MLA.
But he added “clearly the SDLP has a serious problem”, and its future is to an extent dependent on events beyond its control.
He believes if Sinn Féin entered government in Dublin and didn’t perform as well as expected, it may damage the republican party on both sides of the border.
Mr Gosling described the quality of Sinn Féin’s MLAs and TDs as “not that great”, and even some of the party’s most senior figures who he’d debated with were “not great performers”, something that hadn’t been exposed because: “I think all the parties, and also I think journalism, have let Sinn Féin off the hook a bit.”
When asked if Irish unity would be closer if Sinn Féin did not exist, he said: “Yes, because they don’t do what I’ve just said we need to do.
“I don’t think they properly talk to people from other backgrounds.
“I mean, it’s difficult because Sinn Féin [‘Ourselves alone’] hasn’t got the right name for doing it.
“Some of the things they’re doing, and some of the organisations they support, actually do move things forward.
“I think what Ireland’s Future is doing, for example, is very positive.
“I was doing an event a few years ago where I said: ‘We have to get to a position where both the DUP and Sinn Féin recognise that it’s in their interests to make Northern Ireland work’.
“And the person who was alongside me — who was at the time a very senior person within Sinn Féin — said: ‘There is no way that I will ever do anything to try to make Northern Ireland work’.
“There are parts of Sinn Féin that believe the best prospects for them winning a vote is to make Northern Ireland a failed state, a failure.
“We have to persuade Sinn Féin that it’s not in their interests.”
Paul Gosling’s book sets out how Irish unity could come about
He accepted that was not the position of all in Sinn Féin, nor of its leadership today.
But he argued the party was “a very divided organisation… one of those [divisions] seems to be about whether you want genuinely to make Northern Ireland a place that works”.
Mr Gosling said the party’s IRA baggage was an impediment to persuading some people who otherwise might be open to Irish unity.
The author added he did not believe — as many republicans claim — unity is inevitable.
He said: “It’s not inevitable. I think it is likely, and I think we need to work out what we get out of this.”
While support for a united Ireland has grown from a low base before Brexit, Mr Gosling said he did not believe it was simply a pendulum which might swing back in favour of the Union, “because I think the middle ground is now so large that Northern Ireland can never be a unionist state again”.
He said unity “has to involve the abolition of Stormont… you have to move beyond Stormont” as it doesn’t work, and never will.
Mr Gosling accepted the Republic could probably not afford to take on Northern Ireland right now, given the scale of London’s subsidy for the region.
He advocates a reduction in the number of public sector workers to the levels in the Republic or England — something opposed by both the SDLP and Sinn Féin.
“There is this lazy conversation that we haven’t got enough money,” he said.
“You hear this from Conor Murphy quite a bit in terms of… the health service… that it has been underfunded.
“Well, no, the problem with the health service is not that it has been underfunded; the problem is that we haven’t reformed it… we need to have people in politics that have the guts to say we have to reform things.”
—
Coming from a british website Ironically enough..
Now I don’t claim to know much about reunification plans here but one thing I’m always wondering…is what happens to the NHS?
Do people in Northern Ireland just vote to lose free health care?
Sinn Féin founded in 1905. If only there was a 700 year window where they didn’t exist it would be all sorted.
Reunification would be easier if all of NI politics didn’t exist.
But it does, so fuck it, it all has to be worked with to an extent.
This sub wouldn’t exist either. 😊
YAWN! They’re not the biggest party on the island for nothing! 💪🇮🇪
SF are off brand republicans and surrender-monkeys, according to the British army barracks in Belfast.
*unification
I know the author’s argument is about SF not wanting to make Stormont a success, but there is a simpler argument for SF hindering unification. In order achieve unification they need a majority in the north to vote in favour. As SF become more popular in the Republic the percentage in favour of unification in NI dropped.
Because FF/FG have worked so hard over the last 100 years since partition to end partition
Bloke needs to learn to deal with reality as it is,not what he wishes it is