Is discrimination against Swedish-speakers a significant issue?

26 comments

1. It is not an issue at all, we care about each other.

2. As a Swedish-speaking Finn, I would say it is constantly deteriorating but not quite like that. It is getting harder and harder to get the services we are entitled to by law, and customer service other than in places where we are the overwhelming majority is spotty to nonexistent. The customer service and product information companies maintain is pitiful at best and sometimes so poor it’s more difficult to access/understand than the Finnish version.

3. I haven’t seen discrimimation, however I am not a swedish speaking finn.

   About the quality of service in swedish: The amount and academic quality of students going to lukio has really dropped. This means there are less people who have studied a decent amount of swedish. Also, as there are so few swedish speakers in most finnish cities, there are just so few incounters and one forgets swedish.

   The reason why written swedish on company websites etc. is so bad is because no one in their right mind goes to university to study swedish. This is because the pay and work conditions are crap. The text has to be translated by the next day and they pay a few cents per word so you earn about 10 euros an hour (1600 €/month), even when doing it in a rush. And that rush then causes even more errors. And companies/goverment are always competing the work and don’t pay if there are mistakes so it is a race to the bottom who can do it the cheapest and quickest.

4. I’d say Finnish normativity is very much a thing in most regions in Finland but Swedish-phobia seems too strong of an expression. As a Finnish-speaking Finn, it would seem to me that they might face some mild hostility based on my experience in the Helsinki region and they might have some difficulty getting official services in their language immediately(there will always be someone who speaks swedish but it might take time to find them) since even though almost every Finn has to study Swedish most don’t learn it.

   Swedish-speaking families are stereotypically seen as coming from privilege so they hear some spite about being ‘svenska talande bättre folk’ and most people seem to resent having to spend time and resources just because of 5% of the population.

5. I feel like it’s mostly Swedfinns being snobby about being Swedish speaking and finns making fun of them for being snobs and rich people

6. Biggest issue is that everyone must study Swedish in Finland, despite only 5% speak it as their first language and Swedish is spoken in very limited areas in Finland. Most people never hear swedish in their life and know they never have to use it, so that leads to “hate” towards Swedish language. That leads to some kind of attitude towards Swedish speakers, but not like it is their fault. Note like frustration based on the fact that many struggle with Swedish as a school subject and hate it.

7. I just find it ridiculous that Finns must speak language of our former opressors in 2023.
   If Finland had like 60/40 ratio of Finnish-Swedish speakers. But 90/5 does not justify bilanguage.

8. I hope they remove mandatory Swedish from schools. I personally didn’t like it, never felt motivated either. My relatives are Swedish and some of them indeed think highly of themselves, mainly older folk though..My cousins are cool though and don’t really care about it. I haven’t needed the language ever while living here. It would be way better to make learning Swedish optional, so people can choose it if they truly want to learn it. Forcing it down on some young teenagers is just a bad idea.

9. As a Swedish speaking Finn, I have encountered negativity ONCE in my 40+ years. And even then it was some drunk a-hole that mistook me for a swede.

10. The reality is that find Finns are quite nationalistic, and also having a bit of a complex for historical reason towards Sweden and Swedish culture.

    I don’t say that in most places there is a hatred or even hostility towards swedish.

    But there is a strong feeling that anything that would be beneficial for swedish speaking finns is always away from the majority, i.e. there is not enough self confidence in the majority in Finland to let the swedish speaking be the best it can be. Thus the situation slowly deteriorates, many times because the solution, or legislation will be too “expensive”.

    Note this is not only regarding this community, but also towards anything which is not the majority, i.e. Sami, Åland, foreigners, etc. The most progressive part of the nation are multi national companies where culture is more inclusive.

11. The Finnish-speaking majority are slowly genociding us over here, but we’re just sitting it out and waiting for our Western neighbours and their great leader Carl XVI Gustav to come and conduct a three-day, small-scale special military operation thus freeing us from the Nazi leadership and restoring the original border from pre-1809… /s

12. Depends on what generation you talk about. Older people were taught Swedish, so they do understand, but will at times respond in Finnish. Younger people will communicate in English, and are often oblivious to Swedish….

13. I have heard only few cases where there could have been claimed “discrimination”. And 3/4 cases it was Swedish speaking Finns causing issues to non Swedish speaking Finn.

    How ever all of those cases are at least decade ago, most cases 2 or 3 decades ago.

    How ever much like most French Canadians live in Quebec, (by my understanding) most of Swedish speaking Finns live in South southwest, and western coast. And outside of that area, Swedish speaking Finns might have trouble finding services in their native language, then again, I have had to travel to Swedish speaking areas due to my work, and I have had some issues getting the basic services (such as buying for hotdog from gas station) in Finnish. And I do think it’s because I don’t speak Swedish, Not the language ability of the gas station attendant.

    Then again, I have had to provide a service to a person who honestly did not speak Finnish (She was very old woman who lived “deep” in Swedish speaking area.) So I had to call a friend at the office, who then used google translate so we could get everything sorted.

    I have noticed that the younger generations of Swedish speaking Finns are very fluent in Finnish though, so it might be that in couple generations the Swedish speaking minority might dwindle down.

14. I wouldn’t say they are discriminated but most finns will not speak swedish despite studying it is mandatory in schools. Maybe forcing it has kinda backfired.

    I speak both, but there are also few people who can speak swedish only. In my opinion this is bit peculiar and I’m sure they feel discriminated.

15. Give it another 100 years and there won’t be any Swedish speakers here. But not really because of genocide, discrimination, etc. The minority is just so small. In order to get a job, you must speak finnish anyway, and learning finnish is hard for Swedish speaking childern. So easier for the child to just start with finnish. And looks like pakkoruotsi will be removed soon (I’m surprised if it doesn’t happen within 20 years).

16. Good question, although I’d make a huge distinction between normalizing Finnish and phobia towards Swedish speakers. Also Swedish and French languages have very different statuses in terms of percentage. Nearly one quarter of Canada speaks French. Swedish speakers constitute about 6% of Finns. Like in Canada, the minority languages are often very regional, so you’d be much better served as a Swedish speaker in the West Coast than in Eastern Finland. There isn’t a major city like Quebec where Swedish-speakers would be a majority, although in some small West coast towns you’d be hard pressed to hear any Finnish.

    From my experience the difference is mainly social. Finnish fluency varies alot in the Swedish speaking community, even within families. One of my best friends is a Swedish speaker first, and most of his family speaks fluently, but for whatever reason he wasn’t exposed to Finnish during most of his formative years, so he kind of lagged behind even during university. So it limited his life mainly socially.

    So it’s not weird that people form social clicks according their first language. But to your question -maybe it’s a bit discriminating to often assume the default language in a social setting to be Finnish. But it usually is implicitly ‘decided’ by the numbers. If I enter a group of Swedish speakers I wouldn’t impose Finnish on them, but I’d just use Swedish first and then mix of Swedish and English when they catch on how shit my Swedish is.

    I imagine most of us agree that having a Swedish speaking minority enrichens our culture and broadens our ties and possibilities when people are exposed to another language from the TV and radio.

17. Mostly just threats screamed on the streets while they were drunk. The more common type is a conspiracy theory of a “political elite” that “rules all the other parties”. Common on r/suomi for example.

18. Compared to what I’ve heard about the treatment of, say, quebeqois, the situation in Finland isn’t dire. But it doesn’t mean nothing ever happens; as someone fenno-swedish from her mother’s side, I’ve had my fair share of (mostly) drunkards yelling at me for speaking “the wrong language”. Which is kinda ironic, considering I use finnish for over 80% of irl interactions…

19. I grew up in a town with a significant population of swedish speakers. As a teen, I had an ideological opposition to mandatory swedish because “hurrit” (kind of a slur for finnswedes) were better than us finns at pretty much everything – statistically they are happier, richer and live longer. They’re also usually strikingly beautiful and handsome, and own nice seaside houses and boats. So of course you hate learning swedish as a teen because you’re jealous of them, lol.

    Then I grew up, befriended a few finnswedes and began to regret I didn’t focus during my swedish lessons.

    Then I got into my 20s and began to really regret I didn’t focus during my swedish lessons. It would be a huge advantage to be able to communicate with more people in their native language, both professionally and personally.

20. No discrimination, we are the same people.

    However, neglect is quite normal. The state doesnt want to spend any money on giving (constitutionally required) swedish services, so the quality and availability is usually poor. These get taken to court from time to time and the money saved goes to legal fees and compensation and a “slap some duct-tape on it” temporary fix (these cases only get brought up on news outlets in swedish, if someone hears of this for the first time).

    This in turn makes a bubble of swedish speakers, which comes with its perks, everyone knows a guy who knows a guy. This way of getting information and connections can be very valuable, as you are kind of a freind by default, not a client to milk money from or a random stranger.

    There are stereotypes (which the above is part of) but they are fading away. The stereotype is swedish speakers being very rich and elitist. This is true for some of them, but not most.

    Mostly swedish speakers forming their own groups is simply because non swedish speakers dont fit in. Kind of like calling arabic speakers elitist for forming social circles where arabic is spoken, and wont switch their groups language to finnish or english just to pamper to one new member who has no intention to “integrate to the group”. Talking ones mothers thounge in a social circle is a human need.

21. I’ve never encountered discrimination as a swede in Finland, a few ”swedes are gay” jokes but all in good fun. However, I noticed early on that swedish won’t really get you by at all. Few finns speak competent finnish and there’s not a ton of info in swedish.

    Although government and groceries provide info in swedish so that’s nice.

22. I talked to my daughter today about her studies. She is 13 years old. She started studying Swedish last fall. Even now she hates it. Not because it’s difficult, etc. She’s good at languages ​​and has studied Japanese, for example. She is not enthusiastic about the Swedish language at all and would like to learn more of the Sámi language, but cannot choose between Swedish and Sámi, even though both are official languages. We live near the eastern border, she studies Russian also. Because it makes sense. Swedish doesn’t…

    We have lived at west border and there swedish was useless. All meetings at work was in english with swedish people. Sometimes we try to be nice and try to speak swedish because people in finland can. They laughed to us… They never even say hi in finnish… zero respect

23. Used to be a lot more, like in the 80’s and 90’s. But I dont think it was anything more that someone being different which in itself Was a motive for discrimination in Finland. Probably still is outside south and west Finland

24. The apparent “discrimination” agains swedish speaking finns stems from our history. The first university in Finland, Turun akatemia, was established in 1640 and taught in latin and later in swedish. The first officially finnish speaking university was established in 1920. Until then higher education had always required a high understanding of swedish.

    During the russian rule and rising nationalism sentiment in Europe, the issue of an official language became more prevelant. The finnish language was though to be rudementary and unfit for an state language by swedish speaking polititians and finnish didn’t become an official language until 1902 despite it’s speakers making up most of the population.

    So historically swedish speakers have held almost all of the power, education and wealth in Finland and finnish speaking majority often sidelined. Although the power structure has chanched in the last 100 years, the sentiment against swedish speakers has prevailed.

25. As a French Canadian living in Finland —

    What has always ground my gears about people whining about having to learn French in school is that the argument is always that it isn’t useful. We in fact learn tons of « useless » information in school – no one uses their dinosaur knowledge or recorder playing skills as an adult. Learning a language is important because it triggers you to think in different ways – as languages aren’t 1 for 1 you begin to learn about concepts and make parallels. It’s also important to learn other languages to expose yourself to other cultures and be more understanding. It allows for more critical thinking. And every additional language you learn (whether it’s yo fluency or just a few phrases) is a great way yo meet and interact with people everywhere.

    I hear the same argument about learning Swedish – or people wondering why I’m bothering to learn Finnish when I only plan on being here a year or two. Even if you never find yourself in a situation where you need it- there is literally nothing to lose.

    (Though I’m sure the disgruntlement comes in part from the poor quality of instruction, and I am understanding of that)

26. Is troll factory working overtime or why is there suddenly in /finland so much topics about some kind of controversies among Finns?