We should just make them illegal full stop it’s cutting people off without officially cutting them off
My suspicion with this, is that they made some sort of effort to ‘streamline’ the process because of that ‘don’t pay’ movement that was making lots of noise. But then obviously most people kept paying so it didn’t really get the sudden crisis headlines they expected. But they’d already set the streamlining process in motion, so they just ended up with an army of folks going around replacing the meters to pre-payment. Now its getting media attention and they’re all “oh so shocked and appalled” at the thing they set in motion.
Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted
This does not change anything really. Those meters will eventually need to be replaced most likely with a smart meter as many companies are toeing the “we don’t do the old ones anymore” line. Which once in place can have their pay mode changed remotely without any of the previous hassle of having to get access etc
What is scummy is there are very specific guidelines in regards to fitting prepayment to vulnerable customers particularly those with medical equipment whom require a constant supply of electricity and Ofgem has simply allowed it to go on unchecked
[deleted]
I used to work for an energy supplier 2 years ago and was there for awhile.
These processes were horrible, not only would warrants be done on the the house to install the meter but also all the fees that would come with it. I can’t accurately remember the fee but it was around ~£350. Due to it being mostly vulnerable customers, when they called stating they can’t afford to top up, we’d give them credit like £10 and that would just be added to the debt.
And that’s not talking about warrants being done on the wrong houses…
Shows also how out of touch and corrupt the uk legal system is, magistrates/judges overpaid and getting work in the door from simple tickbox exercises .
I had this when my supplier went bankrupt and collapsed.
My supply was transfered to another provider, who billed me, and I was up to date with my payments.
But after a few months the smart meter was switched to prepayment, I opened a complaint, and a few days later a prepayment card was delivered from a different provider, who also claimed I had hundreds of pounds of debt as per a payment plan addressed to “the occupier”.
The complaint was answered with “we were never your supplier”, despite them having billed me and taken my money, plus checking with ofgem, they were the supplier who took on people from my bankrupt supplier, not this new provider.
However a complaint with the new provider agreed that a mistake had happened and they shouldn’t have taken my supply. But the original provider now refused to take me back.
During this time I was told I shouldn’t have to pay anything to the new supplier whilst the complaint was opened. So naturally… The credit ran out and the gas supply was cut off. The new supplier however “corrected” me everytime I mentioned this! Saying I wasn’t disconnected. Technically true I suppose, but when I didn’t have the ability to heat my house in winter it sure seems like it!
In the end I gave in, closed the complaints & opened a standard direct debit account with the new provider just so I could get heat back to my house.
They still chased the mystery debt to “the occupier” for about four months though, before sending a final statement with the debt cleared last week.
I know I probably would have won if I’d left the complaints open, but this all took place over two weeks in which my house was below 10c and we were having cold showers and we couldn’t take it anymore.
>””Robert”, who is not being identified as he does not want his employer to know he has spoken to the media, says: “In 2015, we would apply for a warrant in person at a local court with 20-30 applications.
>
>”I would find cases where there were vulnerabilities and draw the magistrate’s attention to that and they would then refuse the warrant. None of that exists anymore.”
>
>Robert says bulk applications started being introduced followed by a new online and telephone system for magistrates from 2019.
>
>”I have seen 200-300 applications submitted in one go, but I have colleagues who have emailed spreadsheets containing thousands of addresses which are then processed in around 15 minutes,” he explains.”
I recently left working for an energy company and I can see – and know – where Robert is coming from. In my old role I was expected to help customers with setting up payment plans or discussing payment options if they couldn’t afford to pay by direct debit (believe me – we had multiple options and paygo was usually the last option many people wanted to go for). I’d worked for the company for over a decade and in that time I think I’ve seen a maximum of ten to twelve customers *in total* who ended up getting a warrant to force-install a paygo meter.
Here’s the thing – and it’s something “Robert” mentions as well – *not every customer can afford to go onto paygo, either financially or personally*. If a customer came through to me and told me “look, mate, I’ve lost my job, I’ve got no money coming in, I cannot afford this” then it was my *job* to say “okay, let’s see what we can do”. Energy companies in the past three years have forgotten their side of an unspoken social contract – that whilst you and I may use their services, they’re dependent on us to continue using their services and ultimately, when you’re their customer, they are *expected* to offer help and assistance when you ask for it. There are vulnerable customers (I used to *love* getting someone on the phone who didn’t think of themself as vulnerable. Oh, you said you’ve got kids under five? Oh, you’re a single parent? Oh, you’re disabled? Oh, you’re elderly? Let me put some notes and markers on your account and that’ll derail the wee fuckers in our collections department and let’s explore how best you can manage your account) and there are customers who will refuse to pay their bills for whatever reason. In my mind – in the minds of *everyone* who worked in my department – vulnerability trumps payment ability. Simple as that.
The streamlining processes that were brought in 2019 did cause a ripple effect almost instantly. I used to have one call a *month* where someone would complain about receiving a court notice to one almost every day. During the Pandemic, obviously that tapered off but almost as soon as 2021 started the calls were coming in thick and fast and you honestly couldn’t figure out just why the fuck these warrants and letters were being sent out so damned quickly. Like “Robert” says above – getting a warrant used to be a lengthy process ***and it should be. You’re playing with someone’s ability to heat their home, cook their food and even stay alive***. FFS, it’s not hard to examine a customer’s needs: ask questions, make suggestions, suggest alternatives.
My recommendation to anyone who’s experiencing, ahem, difficulties: contact your provider and find out what options there are available to you. Remember: your supplier cannot make you pay more than what you can afford and they *must* suggest appropriate alternatives – appropriate to *you*, not to *them.*
Too little too late. We’ve already descended into shithole territory over this, it’s time to back peddle for a while.
They don’t need magistrates if you have a smart meter. No entry needed.
How it was normal to force these installations and not give any option to change back is beyond me. I understand the need for it’s use but to go OTT and force it on people is another.
11 comments
We should just make them illegal full stop it’s cutting people off without officially cutting them off
My suspicion with this, is that they made some sort of effort to ‘streamline’ the process because of that ‘don’t pay’ movement that was making lots of noise. But then obviously most people kept paying so it didn’t really get the sudden crisis headlines they expected. But they’d already set the streamlining process in motion, so they just ended up with an army of folks going around replacing the meters to pre-payment. Now its getting media attention and they’re all “oh so shocked and appalled” at the thing they set in motion.
Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted
This does not change anything really. Those meters will eventually need to be replaced most likely with a smart meter as many companies are toeing the “we don’t do the old ones anymore” line. Which once in place can have their pay mode changed remotely without any of the previous hassle of having to get access etc
What is scummy is there are very specific guidelines in regards to fitting prepayment to vulnerable customers particularly those with medical equipment whom require a constant supply of electricity and Ofgem has simply allowed it to go on unchecked
[deleted]
I used to work for an energy supplier 2 years ago and was there for awhile.
These processes were horrible, not only would warrants be done on the the house to install the meter but also all the fees that would come with it. I can’t accurately remember the fee but it was around ~£350. Due to it being mostly vulnerable customers, when they called stating they can’t afford to top up, we’d give them credit like £10 and that would just be added to the debt.
And that’s not talking about warrants being done on the wrong houses…
Shows also how out of touch and corrupt the uk legal system is, magistrates/judges overpaid and getting work in the door from simple tickbox exercises .
I had this when my supplier went bankrupt and collapsed.
My supply was transfered to another provider, who billed me, and I was up to date with my payments.
But after a few months the smart meter was switched to prepayment, I opened a complaint, and a few days later a prepayment card was delivered from a different provider, who also claimed I had hundreds of pounds of debt as per a payment plan addressed to “the occupier”.
The complaint was answered with “we were never your supplier”, despite them having billed me and taken my money, plus checking with ofgem, they were the supplier who took on people from my bankrupt supplier, not this new provider.
However a complaint with the new provider agreed that a mistake had happened and they shouldn’t have taken my supply. But the original provider now refused to take me back.
During this time I was told I shouldn’t have to pay anything to the new supplier whilst the complaint was opened. So naturally… The credit ran out and the gas supply was cut off. The new supplier however “corrected” me everytime I mentioned this! Saying I wasn’t disconnected. Technically true I suppose, but when I didn’t have the ability to heat my house in winter it sure seems like it!
In the end I gave in, closed the complaints & opened a standard direct debit account with the new provider just so I could get heat back to my house.
They still chased the mystery debt to “the occupier” for about four months though, before sending a final statement with the debt cleared last week.
I know I probably would have won if I’d left the complaints open, but this all took place over two weeks in which my house was below 10c and we were having cold showers and we couldn’t take it anymore.
>””Robert”, who is not being identified as he does not want his employer to know he has spoken to the media, says: “In 2015, we would apply for a warrant in person at a local court with 20-30 applications.
>
>”I would find cases where there were vulnerabilities and draw the magistrate’s attention to that and they would then refuse the warrant. None of that exists anymore.”
>
>Robert says bulk applications started being introduced followed by a new online and telephone system for magistrates from 2019.
>
>”I have seen 200-300 applications submitted in one go, but I have colleagues who have emailed spreadsheets containing thousands of addresses which are then processed in around 15 minutes,” he explains.”
I recently left working for an energy company and I can see – and know – where Robert is coming from. In my old role I was expected to help customers with setting up payment plans or discussing payment options if they couldn’t afford to pay by direct debit (believe me – we had multiple options and paygo was usually the last option many people wanted to go for). I’d worked for the company for over a decade and in that time I think I’ve seen a maximum of ten to twelve customers *in total* who ended up getting a warrant to force-install a paygo meter.
Here’s the thing – and it’s something “Robert” mentions as well – *not every customer can afford to go onto paygo, either financially or personally*. If a customer came through to me and told me “look, mate, I’ve lost my job, I’ve got no money coming in, I cannot afford this” then it was my *job* to say “okay, let’s see what we can do”. Energy companies in the past three years have forgotten their side of an unspoken social contract – that whilst you and I may use their services, they’re dependent on us to continue using their services and ultimately, when you’re their customer, they are *expected* to offer help and assistance when you ask for it. There are vulnerable customers (I used to *love* getting someone on the phone who didn’t think of themself as vulnerable. Oh, you said you’ve got kids under five? Oh, you’re a single parent? Oh, you’re disabled? Oh, you’re elderly? Let me put some notes and markers on your account and that’ll derail the wee fuckers in our collections department and let’s explore how best you can manage your account) and there are customers who will refuse to pay their bills for whatever reason. In my mind – in the minds of *everyone* who worked in my department – vulnerability trumps payment ability. Simple as that.
The streamlining processes that were brought in 2019 did cause a ripple effect almost instantly. I used to have one call a *month* where someone would complain about receiving a court notice to one almost every day. During the Pandemic, obviously that tapered off but almost as soon as 2021 started the calls were coming in thick and fast and you honestly couldn’t figure out just why the fuck these warrants and letters were being sent out so damned quickly. Like “Robert” says above – getting a warrant used to be a lengthy process ***and it should be. You’re playing with someone’s ability to heat their home, cook their food and even stay alive***. FFS, it’s not hard to examine a customer’s needs: ask questions, make suggestions, suggest alternatives.
My recommendation to anyone who’s experiencing, ahem, difficulties: contact your provider and find out what options there are available to you. Remember: your supplier cannot make you pay more than what you can afford and they *must* suggest appropriate alternatives – appropriate to *you*, not to *them.*
Too little too late. We’ve already descended into shithole territory over this, it’s time to back peddle for a while.
They don’t need magistrates if you have a smart meter. No entry needed.
How it was normal to force these installations and not give any option to change back is beyond me. I understand the need for it’s use but to go OTT and force it on people is another.