Universities cannot have a legal “duty of care” to students at all times, they just can’t. Students are adults who need to be able to manage their own lives outside of university with universities responsible for their actions not for the independent actions of adults or the failures of the government to fund mental healthcare
It’s a tragic fact that suicide is an avoidable form of death that is far too common in the U.K.. The path to reduced rates of suicide is not to fabricate responsibility for such deaths where none exists but to fund better, timelier, more accessible mental healthcare. Suicidality comes into play when treatable conditions (depression, anxiety, ADHD, gender dyphoria etc.) are left unchecked and lives start to slide as a result.
Making a university responsible in that context makes no sense. There simply isn’t a shortcut to improving the mental health of the nation beyond getting people the healthcare that is needed.
It’s been quite a struggle over decades for universities to treat its students as adults, curfews at halls are within living memory. I don’t see how you can extend the duty of care universities have over students without infantilising them, there comes a time when you are adult, want to be treated as one, in fact *need* to be treated as one.
This is a challenge as, whilst I can see the desire to look after students, where do you draw the line or how should you respond to legal aspects of GDPR and confidentiality.
What happens when an eventual case of raising a concern with a parent who is in direct conflict with their adult child and, potentially, relates to say depression from an abortion or other private matter?
Who makes the subjective decision to raise a concern beyond that of the adult student and organisation?
How can a University have a duty of care over students when a large portion of student life takes place off campus.
If university staff start demanding access to private student flats and to see certain people under the guise of ‘Duty of care’ then people will start kicking off over invasion of privacy.
Many students (of tertiary education) do live for a first time on their own, as ”fully adults” and do not wish their parents/ guardians to overlook them any more.
Many students are adults already ( not just ”mature” students) have a few years gap between going to uni.
How those parents petitioning for a ”change” imagine what privacy and adulthood is: to be in charge and in control of someone only because of being ”a student”.
Natasha suicide was a tragedy, but lack of communication or relationship between her and her parents has nothing to do with university- a lot of adult children cut contact or limit it with parents when they do start living adult life- and going to uni is ( or at least should be) part of adults life, and even if some people/parents think otherwise they also should respect fact, that as an adults we all making (legally) decisions not to others expectations.
I have had a couple of jobs working with uni students and their parents. A lot of parents send their kids to uni thinking it’s going to be like boarding school and that the students are going to be looked after in some way. I’ve fielded a lot of complaints from parents who feel the university should be parenting their adult children for them. The students often have RAs in their halls, but not much in the way of guardianship. I feel there’s a gap in expectations here.
Moving to uni is a huge life change, it can be hard on your mental health and students should get more support… From the health service.
The problem is that many people commit suicide seemingly out of nowhere, while others who might appear at risk of suicide never go through with it. Universities could extend their duty of care here but students will always fall through the gaps, just like they do in normal society. Suicide is complex and not every case is alike, so even with a greater duty of care exhibited from universities, students will take their lives.
What? Universities do have a duty of care but they can’t be involved in every aspect of a students life. What student even wants to have the independence of being away to be parented again by the university? The university can’t look after adults in their private lives. They’re adults. Much like how employers have a duty of care for their employees at work but that ends when their employee goes home.
Sorry for her suicide but fuckin hell people need to take some level of personal responsibility in their adult lives
If employers have a duty of care does this mean I can get out of giving presentations at meetings if they cause me anxiety?
Wait a minute aren’t lecturers on fucking strike because they’re overworked and underpaid? So the bright idea is to give them even more shit to deal with.
Oh and most importantly these students are legally adults and might not want the university snooping on them! Universities are not extensions of schools, they are not *in loco parentis* as schools are.
At least 50% of my friend group at Uni had a pretty bad mental health moment in the 3 years. There was some support provided on campus if you sought it, but aside from some deadline extensions there’s not much they could do.
I’m not sure what could be done short of adding another 20k onto student debts to fund the amount of care needed.
[deleted]
Delusional parents of a dead child…
Next thing you now we’ll be getting a ‘Natasha’s Law’ which, as with all laws named after dead kids, will be shit and populist in nature
Why are they angry at the university and not the nhs/ mental health provision in the area? She was an adult at the time, it was a tragic situation but university is not a school they shouldn’t have to be responsible for parenting.
Moving away from home and being an adult can be sink or swim. Some sink.
While someone who has just turned 18 is legally an adult, they have most likely lived their whole lives with their parents and spent all their time at school 6th formers are often treated like overgrown schoolkids.
Moving away from home, suddenly being responsible for doing everything yourself, trying to build a brand new social life from scratch, and facing the increased academic pressures of university, is very hard. All students are going to have a tough time of it at first, with a significant minority really struggling.
Who is supposed to look out for them, if not the university?
A duty of care doesn’t mean that the university has to ban students from owning scissors or kick their door down if they miss a lecture. But that doesn’t mean they should do absolutely nothing.
But people rarely go from being completely happy to taking their own life overnight. There will often be some warning signs. Universtities should have systems in place to pick up on those warning signs and try to offer help.
16 comments
Universities cannot have a legal “duty of care” to students at all times, they just can’t. Students are adults who need to be able to manage their own lives outside of university with universities responsible for their actions not for the independent actions of adults or the failures of the government to fund mental healthcare
It’s a tragic fact that suicide is an avoidable form of death that is far too common in the U.K.. The path to reduced rates of suicide is not to fabricate responsibility for such deaths where none exists but to fund better, timelier, more accessible mental healthcare. Suicidality comes into play when treatable conditions (depression, anxiety, ADHD, gender dyphoria etc.) are left unchecked and lives start to slide as a result.
Making a university responsible in that context makes no sense. There simply isn’t a shortcut to improving the mental health of the nation beyond getting people the healthcare that is needed.
It’s been quite a struggle over decades for universities to treat its students as adults, curfews at halls are within living memory. I don’t see how you can extend the duty of care universities have over students without infantilising them, there comes a time when you are adult, want to be treated as one, in fact *need* to be treated as one.
This is a challenge as, whilst I can see the desire to look after students, where do you draw the line or how should you respond to legal aspects of GDPR and confidentiality.
What happens when an eventual case of raising a concern with a parent who is in direct conflict with their adult child and, potentially, relates to say depression from an abortion or other private matter?
Who makes the subjective decision to raise a concern beyond that of the adult student and organisation?
How can a University have a duty of care over students when a large portion of student life takes place off campus.
If university staff start demanding access to private student flats and to see certain people under the guise of ‘Duty of care’ then people will start kicking off over invasion of privacy.
Many students (of tertiary education) do live for a first time on their own, as ”fully adults” and do not wish their parents/ guardians to overlook them any more.
Many students are adults already ( not just ”mature” students) have a few years gap between going to uni.
How those parents petitioning for a ”change” imagine what privacy and adulthood is: to be in charge and in control of someone only because of being ”a student”.
Natasha suicide was a tragedy, but lack of communication or relationship between her and her parents has nothing to do with university- a lot of adult children cut contact or limit it with parents when they do start living adult life- and going to uni is ( or at least should be) part of adults life, and even if some people/parents think otherwise they also should respect fact, that as an adults we all making (legally) decisions not to others expectations.
I have had a couple of jobs working with uni students and their parents. A lot of parents send their kids to uni thinking it’s going to be like boarding school and that the students are going to be looked after in some way. I’ve fielded a lot of complaints from parents who feel the university should be parenting their adult children for them. The students often have RAs in their halls, but not much in the way of guardianship. I feel there’s a gap in expectations here.
Moving to uni is a huge life change, it can be hard on your mental health and students should get more support… From the health service.
The problem is that many people commit suicide seemingly out of nowhere, while others who might appear at risk of suicide never go through with it. Universities could extend their duty of care here but students will always fall through the gaps, just like they do in normal society. Suicide is complex and not every case is alike, so even with a greater duty of care exhibited from universities, students will take their lives.
What? Universities do have a duty of care but they can’t be involved in every aspect of a students life. What student even wants to have the independence of being away to be parented again by the university? The university can’t look after adults in their private lives. They’re adults. Much like how employers have a duty of care for their employees at work but that ends when their employee goes home.
Sorry for her suicide but fuckin hell people need to take some level of personal responsibility in their adult lives
If employers have a duty of care does this mean I can get out of giving presentations at meetings if they cause me anxiety?
Wait a minute aren’t lecturers on fucking strike because they’re overworked and underpaid? So the bright idea is to give them even more shit to deal with.
Edit: wages have fallen 25% in real terms since 2009 [https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/24/more-than-70000-uk-university-staff-go-on-strike-over-pay-and-pensions](https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/24/more-than-70000-uk-university-staff-go-on-strike-over-pay-and-pensions)
Oh and most importantly these students are legally adults and might not want the university snooping on them! Universities are not extensions of schools, they are not *in loco parentis* as schools are.
At least 50% of my friend group at Uni had a pretty bad mental health moment in the 3 years. There was some support provided on campus if you sought it, but aside from some deadline extensions there’s not much they could do.
I’m not sure what could be done short of adding another 20k onto student debts to fund the amount of care needed.
[deleted]
Delusional parents of a dead child…
Next thing you now we’ll be getting a ‘Natasha’s Law’ which, as with all laws named after dead kids, will be shit and populist in nature
Why are they angry at the university and not the nhs/ mental health provision in the area? She was an adult at the time, it was a tragic situation but university is not a school they shouldn’t have to be responsible for parenting.
Moving away from home and being an adult can be sink or swim. Some sink.
While someone who has just turned 18 is legally an adult, they have most likely lived their whole lives with their parents and spent all their time at school 6th formers are often treated like overgrown schoolkids.
Moving away from home, suddenly being responsible for doing everything yourself, trying to build a brand new social life from scratch, and facing the increased academic pressures of university, is very hard. All students are going to have a tough time of it at first, with a significant minority really struggling.
Who is supposed to look out for them, if not the university?
A duty of care doesn’t mean that the university has to ban students from owning scissors or kick their door down if they miss a lecture. But that doesn’t mean they should do absolutely nothing.
But people rarely go from being completely happy to taking their own life overnight. There will often be some warning signs. Universtities should have systems in place to pick up on those warning signs and try to offer help.