That’s nice I suppose, I wouldn’t want to take the pay hit myself
Edit: That’s nice for office jockies in non competitive industries, I wouldn’t want to see lay offs and salary decreases because lowered productivity compared to competitors
Meanwhile my employer is trying to get us to work more hours, aswell as weekends too. Overtime is pretty well paid but it’s not the point.
I’m a freelancer and last year decided to switch to a 4-day week. I’m never going back.
Got sick of getting to Sunday night and getting dread (I love my job), getting to Monday and wishing I could have had 1 more day off. My life doesn’t feel solely focussed around work anymore.
If you have the opportunity I highly recommend it
This is WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING WE NEED FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS. Christ alive this is the change we need. Thank god for some positive news.
I’d be really interested to know which firms are doing this. I work in a creative industry but in recent years the illusion that my career will bring my happiness has been utterly broken and I’m fucking fed up with the constant long hours and stress. So I would probably consider changing my career to a company which does support this in the next year if nothing changes. I just want more free time to, you know, enjoy my life
As I commented last time this came up: does this not simply show that a lot of jobs are being done inefficiently? If you can reduce your working hours by 20%, you obviously aren’t working at / near capacity normally.
Try applying this to retail, nursing, teaching or other jobs which have limited downtime, and employers will need more staff to pick up the slack. That’s not likely to happen, due to corporate greed or government policy.
Then try applying it to jobs which charge clients by the time it takes, like builders or accountants. Fewer working days directly impacts the bottom line.
Then try applying it to jobs which are already hyper efficient due to employee tracking, like Amazon warehouse staff or lawyers. How do they lose a day and remain as productive?
Maybe I’m a cynic, but I feel like this will just spark a greater divide between those jobs which can do this (or get away with this) and those that can’t.
4 day week only works for the laptop class who don’t need bodies physically present or who’s Jon’s aren’t time-dependant. Good for them, but tired of hearing about how it’s the future without increasing ones working hours.
I literally worked a 4 day week, minimum 10 hour shifts (but mostly 15) and then my company decided (with the backing of the union before anyone starts bleating about them) that they wanted us to do 5 day week, still at 10 hours per shift and increase our contracted hours to 48 per week instead of 37. It just makes sense for them to have bodies available longer and more time as it’s easier getting the people you have to turn up than getting new people through the door/people to do overtime.
3 day weekend would be worth whatever 4 longer days means
Who knew less time at the office with obnoxious cunts would be great for peoples productivity
My personal opinion on this is that people that support this the most are the laziest ones anyways. Most people seem to brag about how little they can do in a day, messing about on Reddit or whatever. Taking extra long bathroom breaks etc.
Then suddenly they’d be sooooo much more productive if they got Friday off paid. Really? You don’t say? Why am I not surprised.
Anyone with half a brain and zero bias can tell, this is only gonna work for a few very select jobs. Mainly creative fields.
For the vast majority of us, this won’t work. The trial itself is biased, because you wouldn’t sign up for it if you thought it wouldn’t work.
Retail. Hospitality. Construction. Services. So many more sectors. Sorry. It ain’t happening
A few things I’ve realised over time:
* A large proportion of my time is taken up by pointless bureacracy. The [bullshit jobs](https://www.atlasofplaces.com/essays/on-the-phenomenon-of-bullshit-jobs/) are to satisfy a bureacratic need, rather than actually accomplish anything.
* When lockdown hit, it made me better able to control who communicated with me. Emails and Teams messages can be ignored much more easily than someone that steps in front of you while you’re walking to the break room.
* I was going through a tough time personally and started either ingoring or rudely declining (“This seems pointless”) the bureacratic tasks that I normally have to do.
* People now do not contact me about that shit, and I estimate I have 40% more available time in the work week to do my actual job.
* The rise of mainly computer-based bullshit admin seems to coincide with the halt in Western productivity growth.
* Office workers look like shit.
* When I go into the office now, I see very few people over 30 that look fit, healthy and happy. Nearly everyone will have a visible sign of poor lifestyle – from being overweight, visibly unfit, tired, stressed etc.
* The young ‘uns look ok, probably because it takes a few years for work to take a toll on your body.
* Since lockdown and WFH I’ve had no commute and less stress and I’m much better able to excercise, eat well, de stress and spend time with family.
* I’m in the best mental and physical shape of my life.
* I’m not surprised we’re simultaneously experiencing mental health, obesity, addition crises.
​
Frankly I think many 5-day 9-5 jobs are wildly incompatible with homo sapien life.
I think we need a radical reduction in office hours (3 days pw max) plus a very aggressive cut in bullshit bureacracy.
A quick reminder to everyone in this thread that two day weekends didn’t occur naturally, and that all of the arguments you are making against a four day week were made against a five day one.
As ever when this subject comes up you need to remember that there are jobs which can only be done as and when people need them. 4 day week works for some, but not all
Throughout the last year I decided to do an experiment. Took 4 Wednesdays off in a row and worked a 4 day week.
Here’s what I discovered:
1) You get more done in 4 days when you know you have an extra day off. It alters your work dynamic but doesn’t increase your stress. It also doesn’t increase your workload.
2) The dread you feel on a Sunday is considerably less wanted because you know in 2 days you’ll have a day off at leisure. This leads to you being able to enjoy the weekend a little more.
3) You’re able to take more time for yourself and get more personal stuff done. It does wonders for stress and mood management.
I plan to repeat this experiment next February, to see if it stays the same or even improves. If anybody finds themselves with 4 extra days annual leave then I recommend trying it.
You know this will just be the office class workers anyways. So who cares.
No surprise. Only dinosaurs and Tories think it’s not the way forward.
I can’t wait for the gov and civil service to be the very last ones to adopt this for office based rolls ***where it is practical and/or operationally viable.***
Much like WFH. We were told for years that is wasn’t possible for many of us to do our rolls from home and 24 hours into a pandemic, all of that was proved to be untrue.
It strikes me, reading this thread a bit, that if there is a move towards this it might not just be divisive but ruinous.
Administrative and knowledge work that can strip out unproductive meetings and other dead time to provide the productivity gains that make this win-win for all stakeholders tend not to be those occupations that are in shortage of labour. They will be those that can afford to do this most readily. They will be giving a de facto 25% pay increase (per hour worked) in areas where market forces indicate it isn’t required relative to those sectors (most typically cited in the thread being nursing) where implementing it in a cost neutral fashion is problematic.
The relative attractiveness of nursing as a profession is going to nose-dive unless we’re happy for significant tax increases to fund a re-balancing of that equation (which would clearly be required if nursing were to similarly benefit from the kind of conditions implied to give parity to the four day week’s aims).
I mathed this out for the company I worked for, I was unable to make the numbers work based on the fact we would have to hire an additional staff member per supported living facility in addition to the staff uplift in wages.
It’s a good idea in theory for those companies who could afford it but for ours with fixed care funding packets from councils it was a dead end unless each staff member lone worked every shift.
Alright! Lets hope this trend spends. My only request is can we have Wednesday off instead of Friday or Monday. I just feel a break in the middle of the week would do more good.
19 comments
That’s nice I suppose, I wouldn’t want to take the pay hit myself
Edit: That’s nice for office jockies in non competitive industries, I wouldn’t want to see lay offs and salary decreases because lowered productivity compared to competitors
Meanwhile my employer is trying to get us to work more hours, aswell as weekends too. Overtime is pretty well paid but it’s not the point.
I’m a freelancer and last year decided to switch to a 4-day week. I’m never going back.
Got sick of getting to Sunday night and getting dread (I love my job), getting to Monday and wishing I could have had 1 more day off. My life doesn’t feel solely focussed around work anymore.
If you have the opportunity I highly recommend it
This is WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING WE NEED FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS. Christ alive this is the change we need. Thank god for some positive news.
I’d be really interested to know which firms are doing this. I work in a creative industry but in recent years the illusion that my career will bring my happiness has been utterly broken and I’m fucking fed up with the constant long hours and stress. So I would probably consider changing my career to a company which does support this in the next year if nothing changes. I just want more free time to, you know, enjoy my life
As I commented last time this came up: does this not simply show that a lot of jobs are being done inefficiently? If you can reduce your working hours by 20%, you obviously aren’t working at / near capacity normally.
Try applying this to retail, nursing, teaching or other jobs which have limited downtime, and employers will need more staff to pick up the slack. That’s not likely to happen, due to corporate greed or government policy.
Then try applying it to jobs which charge clients by the time it takes, like builders or accountants. Fewer working days directly impacts the bottom line.
Then try applying it to jobs which are already hyper efficient due to employee tracking, like Amazon warehouse staff or lawyers. How do they lose a day and remain as productive?
Maybe I’m a cynic, but I feel like this will just spark a greater divide between those jobs which can do this (or get away with this) and those that can’t.
4 day week only works for the laptop class who don’t need bodies physically present or who’s Jon’s aren’t time-dependant. Good for them, but tired of hearing about how it’s the future without increasing ones working hours.
I literally worked a 4 day week, minimum 10 hour shifts (but mostly 15) and then my company decided (with the backing of the union before anyone starts bleating about them) that they wanted us to do 5 day week, still at 10 hours per shift and increase our contracted hours to 48 per week instead of 37. It just makes sense for them to have bodies available longer and more time as it’s easier getting the people you have to turn up than getting new people through the door/people to do overtime.
3 day weekend would be worth whatever 4 longer days means
Who knew less time at the office with obnoxious cunts would be great for peoples productivity
My personal opinion on this is that people that support this the most are the laziest ones anyways. Most people seem to brag about how little they can do in a day, messing about on Reddit or whatever. Taking extra long bathroom breaks etc.
Then suddenly they’d be sooooo much more productive if they got Friday off paid. Really? You don’t say? Why am I not surprised.
Anyone with half a brain and zero bias can tell, this is only gonna work for a few very select jobs. Mainly creative fields.
For the vast majority of us, this won’t work. The trial itself is biased, because you wouldn’t sign up for it if you thought it wouldn’t work.
Retail. Hospitality. Construction. Services. So many more sectors. Sorry. It ain’t happening
A few things I’ve realised over time:
* A large proportion of my time is taken up by pointless bureacracy. The [bullshit jobs](https://www.atlasofplaces.com/essays/on-the-phenomenon-of-bullshit-jobs/) are to satisfy a bureacratic need, rather than actually accomplish anything.
* When lockdown hit, it made me better able to control who communicated with me. Emails and Teams messages can be ignored much more easily than someone that steps in front of you while you’re walking to the break room.
* I was going through a tough time personally and started either ingoring or rudely declining (“This seems pointless”) the bureacratic tasks that I normally have to do.
* People now do not contact me about that shit, and I estimate I have 40% more available time in the work week to do my actual job.
* The rise of mainly computer-based bullshit admin seems to coincide with the halt in Western productivity growth.
* Office workers look like shit.
* When I go into the office now, I see very few people over 30 that look fit, healthy and happy. Nearly everyone will have a visible sign of poor lifestyle – from being overweight, visibly unfit, tired, stressed etc.
* The young ‘uns look ok, probably because it takes a few years for work to take a toll on your body.
* Since lockdown and WFH I’ve had no commute and less stress and I’m much better able to excercise, eat well, de stress and spend time with family.
* I’m in the best mental and physical shape of my life.
* I’m not surprised we’re simultaneously experiencing mental health, obesity, addition crises.
​
Frankly I think many 5-day 9-5 jobs are wildly incompatible with homo sapien life.
I think we need a radical reduction in office hours (3 days pw max) plus a very aggressive cut in bullshit bureacracy.
A quick reminder to everyone in this thread that two day weekends didn’t occur naturally, and that all of the arguments you are making against a four day week were made against a five day one.
As ever when this subject comes up you need to remember that there are jobs which can only be done as and when people need them. 4 day week works for some, but not all
Throughout the last year I decided to do an experiment. Took 4 Wednesdays off in a row and worked a 4 day week.
Here’s what I discovered:
1) You get more done in 4 days when you know you have an extra day off. It alters your work dynamic but doesn’t increase your stress. It also doesn’t increase your workload.
2) The dread you feel on a Sunday is considerably less wanted because you know in 2 days you’ll have a day off at leisure. This leads to you being able to enjoy the weekend a little more.
3) You’re able to take more time for yourself and get more personal stuff done. It does wonders for stress and mood management.
I plan to repeat this experiment next February, to see if it stays the same or even improves. If anybody finds themselves with 4 extra days annual leave then I recommend trying it.
You know this will just be the office class workers anyways. So who cares.
No surprise. Only dinosaurs and Tories think it’s not the way forward.
I can’t wait for the gov and civil service to be the very last ones to adopt this for office based rolls ***where it is practical and/or operationally viable.***
Much like WFH. We were told for years that is wasn’t possible for many of us to do our rolls from home and 24 hours into a pandemic, all of that was proved to be untrue.
It strikes me, reading this thread a bit, that if there is a move towards this it might not just be divisive but ruinous.
Administrative and knowledge work that can strip out unproductive meetings and other dead time to provide the productivity gains that make this win-win for all stakeholders tend not to be those occupations that are in shortage of labour. They will be those that can afford to do this most readily. They will be giving a de facto 25% pay increase (per hour worked) in areas where market forces indicate it isn’t required relative to those sectors (most typically cited in the thread being nursing) where implementing it in a cost neutral fashion is problematic.
The relative attractiveness of nursing as a profession is going to nose-dive unless we’re happy for significant tax increases to fund a re-balancing of that equation (which would clearly be required if nursing were to similarly benefit from the kind of conditions implied to give parity to the four day week’s aims).
I mathed this out for the company I worked for, I was unable to make the numbers work based on the fact we would have to hire an additional staff member per supported living facility in addition to the staff uplift in wages.
It’s a good idea in theory for those companies who could afford it but for ours with fixed care funding packets from councils it was a dead end unless each staff member lone worked every shift.
Alright! Lets hope this trend spends. My only request is can we have Wednesday off instead of Friday or Monday. I just feel a break in the middle of the week would do more good.