Blair did that. Starmer’s just making the party an attractive idea for an alternative again.
You cannot make change from the outside only the within.
Maybe if labours “soul” means a permanent Tory government then labour needs to make change.
His comment reflects “am I so out of touch? No, it’s the children who are wrong”
[deleted]
I hate to break it to him but New Labour already did that, now we’ve just got the tribute act selling the scraps.
Starmer is smart enough to realise principles without power are virtually useless. Once power is achieved all options become available.
I don’t understand, why does everyone think if Starmer panders to get into power, the people who voted for him won’t boot him out at the next GE when it turns out he had different principles to what he said he had to get into power? Do you honestly think he’s going to suddenly fund the NHS, privatise national services and everyone will just go “oh ok then”.
He’s right you know. Labour will probably win the next election, but unless they somehow manage to find their radicalism again, and fix or at least make an effort to fix the many serious issues at the core of this country’s foundational socioeconomic structure – which they have made absolutely no indication of wanting to do; law-and-order authoritarianism is not going to give nurses, teachers etc. pay rises, it’s not going to solve the housing crisis and stop rampant rentierism, it’s not going to fix this country’s broken infrastructure – they won’t win the one after that.
If I was leading a major political party, I wouldn’t be focusing on people who already vote and who might change their mind, but on people who don’t vote. There’s a huge untapped voter base there, often filled with a ‘all politicians’ are the same sentiment. Maybe it’s a strategy for the second term when you’ve proved you’re not the same, but I don’t know why people fuss over 10% who might or might not be swing voters and ignore 30% who don’t turn out at all.
The UK is a two party Conservative state.
Either you become a Conservative party or you find an image of yourself on the front page of the Daily Mail comparing you to Chairman Mao in 2 weeks of winning a leadership election.
There are values prime ministers are allowed to hold and the press only allows those people to ascertain power.
1. Hate immigrants.
2. Authoritarianism.
3. Anti welfare.
4. Anti unions.
5. Maintaining existing power, wealth and class structures.
The real power in this country is in the head offices of the media, a closed shop of mostly privately educated higher classes who coincidentally also rotate in and out of government and back into the press, sometimes you might read a news article and find out that it was written by the Prime Ministers sister, or the godfather of Rishi Sunak’s child.
You could change nothing and keep the Tories in government if you’d prefer
And he is 100% correct, the party that was formed to represent 90% of us in the UK has become a figment of itself.
We have allowed the establishment to slowly chip away at the rights of the normal person in the UK!
I hate the Tories to the depths of my soul however I hate what the Labour party has become more!
We have a choice going forward, either accept we are nothing but slaves to the 10% or we rise against what’s happening.
Starmer is trying to sell a Labour to as much as the electorate as possible…that’s the way to get into power.
You cannot do a damn thing focusing on the far left/ left…as there isn’t enough people in the country that wants that.
I mean he isn’t going to enter Downing Street that way – the Tories are, a the very least, honest about the fact their souls have been sold.
The British public elected Boris Johnson knowing full-well that he had opportunistically supported Brexit, and that making him Prime Minister was giving him the very opportunity he’d been wrangling for.
That’s because he never hid the fact he was doing this – he was openly and honestly an opportunistic slimeball. Most of the Tory top brass are that – Rees-Mog, Lee Anderson, even the current PM: all of them are utterly honest about what cartoon-character villains they are.
Keir Starmer simply doesn’t have that in his blood – he’s an opportunistic grifter too, but he tries to sell himself as something else. Unless the country is actually on fire at the next election (which it could be, given how things are going), he’s just not going to appeal over his Tory counterparts: he’d be forcing people to choose between the Tory’s honest cookery and his own dishonest cookery, and that’s a no-contest in favour of the Tories.
He wants a Tory government. Helps the independence campaign.
Lool hyperbole from the scared snp. A labour govt is worse for them than a Tory government
I’ve got no political allegiances and will just vote for who i see as best fit at the time. Personally, I prefer a centrist government. It doesn’t make sense to me to have the two options as left wing and right wing.
Starmer seems like an excellent safe pair of hands, and I’ll be voting Labour next election because they seem to offer the most reasonable balance currently.
It’s all so weary, the hard left of Labour snipping as the party under Starmer has rebuilt into a force that could actually win the next election. They seem to conveniently forget the absolute disaster that was Corbyn. A Brexiteer, who poured fuel onto the Johnson fire, enabling to worse incompetence and corruption I’ve ever witnessed in “the mother of all parliaments”.
The country’s problems are so profound, stemming from decades of mismanagement, that it is utterly unrealistic to expect Labour to fix in a single parliament. But every journey has to start. If Labour lurched left again now, ushering in the ERG / Tories for 5 more awful years, we’d just delay starting the long, hard road to a proper functioning country.
Any time I read people on here accuse Starmer’s Labour of being another Tory party it says to me you can’t actually be arsed to look into what he’s announced.
If a nationalised energy company, nationalised railways, insulating people’s homes for free, ending non-dom status, repealing the anti-strike legislation, and reforming the House of Lords makes you a Tory then I give up.
Remember Blair, that guy that all the lefties said was a Tory in a red tie and the worst thing that ever happened to labour? That guy?
He did more for the NHS, schools, social equality, finance, and workers pay and rights during his leadership than the Tories or the idealistic hard left Labour wing have done in the last thirteen years. There’s a decent argument that Brown’s financial policy could’ve spared us much of the recovery pains from the credit crunch but we had to go and vote for the slimy Cameron plan that promised a quick bit of austerity then we’d be the envy of the world again.
Yes there was the war, yes there was neoliberal nonsense, yes there was a lot of scandals with MPs fiddling but you know what? The current government has both shitty corruption problems and corporate strings *and* they’re ruining our public services all at the same time! A centre-left New Labour Blair-esque government would be a fucking godsend compared to what we have. Flynn can shove his opinion quite frankly.
Getting into Downing Street is pretty much a prerequisite for implementing policy. It’s the de facto point of a political party in the UK. What a bizarre criticism.
That’s because the electorate are centre right culturally. You won’t win enough of the vote if you don’t appeal to them.
If he means Starmer is abandoning Labours established ethos of Centre/Centre Left politics and pursuing populist right rightward leaning policies in the same vain as the Tory party, I don’t think he’s wrong.
Obviously it’s completely a matter of opinion as many still see Labour as the party for the common man despite the fact it seems that it’s a fag papers width to the left of the right wing Tories.
Any party with policies not close to the center left or center right are unelectable in the UK.
Yes, he has to sell me the idea of labour being better or I’m not buying with my vote.
Dowa Flynn believes Labour deserves the votes? For free?
Who cares. I’d be happy for Starmer to sell his bollocks to win the next election.
You can always count on the left to fuck over the left.
As a center left voter, let me just say I hate how short sighted the average left voter is. It’s like they expect the country to go from the far right to far left in a single election, which is nonsense. Starmer is a stepping stone in the right direction and is very much needed.
I’m disabled, I’ve been through hell the last 12 years. Fuck anyone who thinks Labour are the same as the Tories. You are just plain wrong. Some of the stuff people are calling ‘little tweaks’ in the comments are life changers. Ideological purity can do one.
Having a “good soul” and being serial losers who impact nothing, while a party you hate call the shots in perpetuity, isn’t preferable to pragmatically giving small amounts of ground but steering the ship.
This attitude is half the reason Labour have had one stint in government and one sole leader able to win an election in 40+ years. If you care about actual change, losing and then saying what you would’ve done is about as far from it as it gets.
They’re ahead in the polls, so of course it’s time for the self-destructive in-fighting.
Bloody hell. It’s like they want the tories to have another term
“Any Labour Government is better than a Tory Government!”
“Then why did you so gleefully join in with trashing Corbyn and his chances of forming a Labour Government?”
* crickets *
He is. Though I’d rather the red Tory in power than the blue one
Hate to say it but kinda agree. Still rather him than this current crop of arseholes.
What’s more important, getting into govenment, or sitting on the sidelines
And he’s absolutely right. I’ve been a labour supporter since I could first vote and with everything Starmer is doing I really wanna drop it. It no longer represents my values.
35 comments
Blair did that. Starmer’s just making the party an attractive idea for an alternative again.
You cannot make change from the outside only the within.
Maybe if labours “soul” means a permanent Tory government then labour needs to make change.
His comment reflects “am I so out of touch? No, it’s the children who are wrong”
[deleted]
I hate to break it to him but New Labour already did that, now we’ve just got the tribute act selling the scraps.
Starmer is smart enough to realise principles without power are virtually useless. Once power is achieved all options become available.
I don’t understand, why does everyone think if Starmer panders to get into power, the people who voted for him won’t boot him out at the next GE when it turns out he had different principles to what he said he had to get into power? Do you honestly think he’s going to suddenly fund the NHS, privatise national services and everyone will just go “oh ok then”.
He’s right you know. Labour will probably win the next election, but unless they somehow manage to find their radicalism again, and fix or at least make an effort to fix the many serious issues at the core of this country’s foundational socioeconomic structure – which they have made absolutely no indication of wanting to do; law-and-order authoritarianism is not going to give nurses, teachers etc. pay rises, it’s not going to solve the housing crisis and stop rampant rentierism, it’s not going to fix this country’s broken infrastructure – they won’t win the one after that.
If I was leading a major political party, I wouldn’t be focusing on people who already vote and who might change their mind, but on people who don’t vote. There’s a huge untapped voter base there, often filled with a ‘all politicians’ are the same sentiment. Maybe it’s a strategy for the second term when you’ve proved you’re not the same, but I don’t know why people fuss over 10% who might or might not be swing voters and ignore 30% who don’t turn out at all.
The UK is a two party Conservative state.
Either you become a Conservative party or you find an image of yourself on the front page of the Daily Mail comparing you to Chairman Mao in 2 weeks of winning a leadership election.
There are values prime ministers are allowed to hold and the press only allows those people to ascertain power.
1. Hate immigrants.
2. Authoritarianism.
3. Anti welfare.
4. Anti unions.
5. Maintaining existing power, wealth and class structures.
The real power in this country is in the head offices of the media, a closed shop of mostly privately educated higher classes who coincidentally also rotate in and out of government and back into the press, sometimes you might read a news article and find out that it was written by the Prime Ministers sister, or the godfather of Rishi Sunak’s child.
You could change nothing and keep the Tories in government if you’d prefer
And he is 100% correct, the party that was formed to represent 90% of us in the UK has become a figment of itself.
We have allowed the establishment to slowly chip away at the rights of the normal person in the UK!
I hate the Tories to the depths of my soul however I hate what the Labour party has become more!
We have a choice going forward, either accept we are nothing but slaves to the 10% or we rise against what’s happening.
Starmer is trying to sell a Labour to as much as the electorate as possible…that’s the way to get into power.
You cannot do a damn thing focusing on the far left/ left…as there isn’t enough people in the country that wants that.
I mean he isn’t going to enter Downing Street that way – the Tories are, a the very least, honest about the fact their souls have been sold.
The British public elected Boris Johnson knowing full-well that he had opportunistically supported Brexit, and that making him Prime Minister was giving him the very opportunity he’d been wrangling for.
That’s because he never hid the fact he was doing this – he was openly and honestly an opportunistic slimeball. Most of the Tory top brass are that – Rees-Mog, Lee Anderson, even the current PM: all of them are utterly honest about what cartoon-character villains they are.
Keir Starmer simply doesn’t have that in his blood – he’s an opportunistic grifter too, but he tries to sell himself as something else. Unless the country is actually on fire at the next election (which it could be, given how things are going), he’s just not going to appeal over his Tory counterparts: he’d be forcing people to choose between the Tory’s honest cookery and his own dishonest cookery, and that’s a no-contest in favour of the Tories.
He wants a Tory government. Helps the independence campaign.
Lool hyperbole from the scared snp. A labour govt is worse for them than a Tory government
I’ve got no political allegiances and will just vote for who i see as best fit at the time. Personally, I prefer a centrist government. It doesn’t make sense to me to have the two options as left wing and right wing.
Starmer seems like an excellent safe pair of hands, and I’ll be voting Labour next election because they seem to offer the most reasonable balance currently.
It’s all so weary, the hard left of Labour snipping as the party under Starmer has rebuilt into a force that could actually win the next election. They seem to conveniently forget the absolute disaster that was Corbyn. A Brexiteer, who poured fuel onto the Johnson fire, enabling to worse incompetence and corruption I’ve ever witnessed in “the mother of all parliaments”.
The country’s problems are so profound, stemming from decades of mismanagement, that it is utterly unrealistic to expect Labour to fix in a single parliament. But every journey has to start. If Labour lurched left again now, ushering in the ERG / Tories for 5 more awful years, we’d just delay starting the long, hard road to a proper functioning country.
Any time I read people on here accuse Starmer’s Labour of being another Tory party it says to me you can’t actually be arsed to look into what he’s announced.
If a nationalised energy company, nationalised railways, insulating people’s homes for free, ending non-dom status, repealing the anti-strike legislation, and reforming the House of Lords makes you a Tory then I give up.
Remember Blair, that guy that all the lefties said was a Tory in a red tie and the worst thing that ever happened to labour? That guy?
He did more for the NHS, schools, social equality, finance, and workers pay and rights during his leadership than the Tories or the idealistic hard left Labour wing have done in the last thirteen years. There’s a decent argument that Brown’s financial policy could’ve spared us much of the recovery pains from the credit crunch but we had to go and vote for the slimy Cameron plan that promised a quick bit of austerity then we’d be the envy of the world again.
Yes there was the war, yes there was neoliberal nonsense, yes there was a lot of scandals with MPs fiddling but you know what? The current government has both shitty corruption problems and corporate strings *and* they’re ruining our public services all at the same time! A centre-left New Labour Blair-esque government would be a fucking godsend compared to what we have. Flynn can shove his opinion quite frankly.
Getting into Downing Street is pretty much a prerequisite for implementing policy. It’s the de facto point of a political party in the UK. What a bizarre criticism.
That’s because the electorate are centre right culturally. You won’t win enough of the vote if you don’t appeal to them.
If he means Starmer is abandoning Labours established ethos of Centre/Centre Left politics and pursuing populist right rightward leaning policies in the same vain as the Tory party, I don’t think he’s wrong.
Obviously it’s completely a matter of opinion as many still see Labour as the party for the common man despite the fact it seems that it’s a fag papers width to the left of the right wing Tories.
Any party with policies not close to the center left or center right are unelectable in the UK.
Yes, he has to sell me the idea of labour being better or I’m not buying with my vote.
Dowa Flynn believes Labour deserves the votes? For free?
Who cares. I’d be happy for Starmer to sell his bollocks to win the next election.
You can always count on the left to fuck over the left.
As a center left voter, let me just say I hate how short sighted the average left voter is. It’s like they expect the country to go from the far right to far left in a single election, which is nonsense. Starmer is a stepping stone in the right direction and is very much needed.
I’m disabled, I’ve been through hell the last 12 years. Fuck anyone who thinks Labour are the same as the Tories. You are just plain wrong. Some of the stuff people are calling ‘little tweaks’ in the comments are life changers. Ideological purity can do one.
Having a “good soul” and being serial losers who impact nothing, while a party you hate call the shots in perpetuity, isn’t preferable to pragmatically giving small amounts of ground but steering the ship.
This attitude is half the reason Labour have had one stint in government and one sole leader able to win an election in 40+ years. If you care about actual change, losing and then saying what you would’ve done is about as far from it as it gets.
They’re ahead in the polls, so of course it’s time for the self-destructive in-fighting.
Bloody hell. It’s like they want the tories to have another term
“Any Labour Government is better than a Tory Government!”
“Then why did you so gleefully join in with trashing Corbyn and his chances of forming a Labour Government?”
* crickets *
He is. Though I’d rather the red Tory in power than the blue one
Hate to say it but kinda agree. Still rather him than this current crop of arseholes.
What’s more important, getting into govenment, or sitting on the sidelines
And he’s absolutely right. I’ve been a labour supporter since I could first vote and with everything Starmer is doing I really wanna drop it. It no longer represents my values.