American here. What do Finns think about all the Winter War/Simo Hayha memes?

40 comments

1. Some are funny but I feel mostly just neutral about them.

   Sure, keeping our independence was a great thing, but we didn’t win the war and it’s not really glorified or anything, like in the USA usually. Our veterans are appriciated of course, but we don’t treat them as national heroes. So you could say we’re modest about it. The war was just something people had to do, a duty.

   When I was in school we were taught about the war, but Häyhä or any other single person was never mentioned. I first learnt of them from all the memes.

2. USMC vet here. I’ve seen it from both sides. My experience is Finns tend to see wars they’ve been involved in differently than they do in the US.

   If the Winter War or Continuation War comes up, it’s like to discuss some practical lesson from it. Or maybe as an example of sisu (closest English word is grit). It’s implicit that there are no real winners. War is just a horrible thing that is sometimes necessary, but it’s not glamorous. Not desirable.

   Obviously I haven’t taken a survey on this, but I suspect the average reaction is mild bemusement.

3. I think they are pretty cringe if you only mean the memes about it. Especially when they seem to be used in connection with just some random things.

   edit: To be clear im proud of the history about them, but putting the memes about it everywhere is cringe.

4. I’d say we are proud of the past and the memes are amusing. There is a point in them that Finns are very motivated and well trained even today to defend the country and give russians hell if need be.

5. It’s pretty cool that what happened at the time is being recognized today, but the fact that the Soviet Union is still commonly seen as the hero of WW2 and not as one of the original aggressors who started the whole thing is kinda depressing.

6. We survived thanks to guys like him but pretty everyone of our grand dads did badass things in the finnish forest. My wife’s grandfather confessed on his death bed to having blown a Soviet bunker with 23 people of which non survived and asked to be forgiven

7. I don’t like the gloating. Russia is a very real existential risk and a bully. They need to know there is a will to defend the country again if needed, but I wouldn’t give them an excuse to come “make a point” about who can cause a lot of destruction in this part of the world.

8. A little bored of the memes tbh. But it’s whatever.

9. Greetings, dear American. It seems that you have fallen for the trap of believing in exaggerated memes and propaganda. While it is true that the Winter War was a remarkable display of Finnish resilience and bravery, it is hardly a reason to consider Finland as the “most badass country of all time.” Such hyperbolic statements only serve to showcase the ignorance of the speaker.

   ​

   Furthermore, your insinuation that Finns are not the type to brag is rather amusing. Have you ever met a Finnish person who is passionate about ice hockey? Or perhaps one who enjoys a good sauna session? Believe me, my dear American, Finns can be just as proud and boastful as anyone else.

   ​

   As for your concerns about Finland’s “psycho neighbor to the east,” I would caution against such simplistic and alarmist rhetoric. The relationship between Finland and Russia is complex and multifaceted, and cannot be reduced to a simple binary of friend or foe.

   ​

   In conclusion, I would advise you to approach the subject of Finland with a bit more nuance and critical thinking. It is only through a willingness to explore and understand different perspectives that we can truly appreciate the rich diversity of our world.

10. As far as I’m concerned, he was simply a soldier doing his job. Heck, there wasn’t any history classes with him as a topic as far as I can recall. In fact, the very first time I encountered the name was TVTropes of all places…

11. As a native I think they’re cringe. Yeah it’s cool we kept our independence because of men like him, but stop glorifying the war and killing, god damn

12. I think most people think that it’s kinda cool that Finland is talked about in foreign social media. Though seeing those memes over and over again is kinda repetive.

13. Aren’t they all just made by Finnish people

14. Who’s that? Haven’t been following sports lately

15. There is another Finnish soldier, sergeant [Viljam Pylkäs](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viljam_Pylk%C3%A4s) who is well known in Finland but hardly known anywhere else. Here is the main part of his story, I translated with DeepL from that Finnish wikipedia page:
    >At the beginning of April 1942, the Soviets made heavy attacks against the Finnish front line. After repulsing an attack on his own position with his machine gun, Pylkäs received orders from platoon leader Einari Kokkonen to go and help the soldiers of a neighbouring regiment.

    >Pylkäs took private Kärkkäinen with him. In the snowy terrain, Pylkäs and Kärkkäinen advanced to the outermost guard post of JR 61 with short rushs. At this point, the attacking Soviets had to wade up the slope in deep snow. Pylkäs received a Suomi submachine gun from the JR 61 soldiers, and Kärkkäinen several replacement magazines. They rushed to the outlying outpost. Hundreds of Soviet troops attacked up the slope at point-blank range. Pylkäs fired the first 40 rounds of his submachine gun. However, the attackers pressed on furiously. Pylkäs fired one magazine after another with his submachine gun. The soldiers behind Pylkäs began to crawl closer and bring more submachine gun magazines to Kärkkäinen, who in turn handed them to Pylkäs.

    >Pylkäs was then hit by a Soviet bullet, which scraped a long wound across his head, and there was a lot of blood. This wound left him with a scar for the rest of his life. Kärkkäinen was now about to retreat, but Pylkäs told him to just keep filling the magazines. The submachine gun also malfunctioned, but by then the Soviets were already retreating. The barrel of the submachine gun had overheated and caused the malfunction, but it was replaced and Pylkäs continued firing.

    >In all, Viljam Pylkäs fired 17 magazines of 680 cartridges with his Suomi submachine gun. During the battle he shot 83 enemy, the number was confirmed when the forward section could be searched after the battle. Pylkäs was awarded the Fourth Class Cross of Freedom with swords for this battle on 26 May 1942. German army officers heard of this very exceptional achievement, and so Pylkäs was also awarded the Iron Cross of the German Army. To receive this decoration, he was escorted by a motorcade of Major General Heiskanen, the Division Commander. The German General Erfurth awarded the Iron Cross, as two generals were also awarded the Iron Cross. Recalling the incident in an interview with Kaarlo Nuorvala in 1955, Pylkäs admitted that the battle had deeply shocked him: “I was absolutely horrified and could not help thinking that the war was really terrible.” Pylkäs also reminisced to author Väinö Linna, who had heard about the incident after the situation had calmed down, telling him, “It was very close for Selma to become a widow.”

16. I think it would be unbecoming of a (Finnish) soldier to brag about a high body count. Or in general, for the Finns. It would be seen as macabre to celebrate the dying, even if it’s your opponents. I think that is why he wasn’t so well known or is even today. I visited his grave and it had some fresh flowers. But he’s not celebrated as a national hero. Just one of the few decorated veterans who we respect.

17. He was one soldier. Meme makers just like to ignore the 90000 dead and 200000 injured soldiers. And in top of that many returned soldiers turned to addicts and had mental problems. And at the time we only had 4 million people living here.

    Couple memes here and there is ok, but this all dumb glorifying all the time is… insane.

18. He was good shot and the joke is funny enough most of the time so I guess its fine to make em.

19. Those memes are usually misleading or at least just plain simple and skewed military history -wise. That might be a problem for all the ww2 memes, though.

20. The memes carry well the Finnish tradition of using dark humour as a mean to humble brag at the side, especially with the winter/continuation war stuff. Here’s one of my favourite jokes:

    Finnish war-time general was visiting abroad in the 60s. A politician from other country, who had not followed the latest turns in Finland, asked the Finnish General how many soviet troops are stationed in Finland.

    General answered: around 300 000.

    Politician then asked: where in Finland they are?

    General said: along the eastern border, about six feet below the soil.

21. There’s a metal song of Häyhä by swedish band.
    https://youtu.be/JRIfWazqIQ8

22. As a Finn in his 50’s I find them very, very boring.

    For a Finn in his 20’s during his age of conscription, they might act as a motivator, a reminder of “glory”.

    The older you get, the less you like violence in any form.

23. Bragging about violence is just awkward. My grandfather got a medal for his services in WW2. The only reason I know about it is because there’s a list on the internet about people who didn’t come and get their medals. He never spoke about the war. Not a single word. Even I don’t know nor do I want to know what he had to do for that medal.

24. It shows lack of awareness. Finland got overwhelmed by numbers in the Continuation war, our lands stolen by Soviet. Those snipers? Like many men from that generation, most of them didn’t make it home. Many of the next generation had to grow up without fathers or grandfathers.

25. They asked Simo what u feel when u shooted so many russians.Simo said RECOIL.

26. Personally, I didn’t know about Häyhä before the memes. It turned out that the bugger survived WW2, got decorated, and died of old age in south east Finland. The memes of his sniper recorded are great!

    The winter war is one of our great national stories. Very much like the war of independence for the US. The memes don’t bother me at all, but here’s the thing. People usually don’t talk about the continuation war 1941-1944, since it’s much more controversial story with our military alliance with Germany, prison camps in conquered soviet Karelia etc. No jokes about that, eh?

    Anyway, I think the finnish WW2 history is a fascinating one, and it holds an deal-with-the-devil situation: how far are you allowed to go in order to preserve your freedom? A ww2 german alliance in face of a communist annexation?

    Sorry for the rant, I think the memes are fine.

27. The scars of war were really deep in Finnish mentality, families broken and the ones who got to go home felt a huge survivors guilt. This is part of the reason why we don’t brag about it. Simo Häyhä lived his civilian life as a completely normal man, nobody was really talking about him and when he passed away it was barely mentioned in the news.

28. It’s pretty weird. We do not romanticize or glorify war here. Our country has been oppressed by russia on multiple occasions. And there are countless men that fought against them. No single man is going to win a war, focusing on one is insulting to those who died.

    Glorifying war is such an american thing. The land you live on was claimed by total annihilation, carnage and rape. You fight a war in the east, sure. But that’s a long way from your home. America as a country is barely out of it’s diapers, and sometimes it shows.

29. The winter war is a very serious topic for many Finns myself included, nobody really won, everyone suffered and lost loved ones. That said, memes are just jokes, true equality means nobody gets a pass, which is a good thing. Some of them are quite funny and bring awarness to our small country.

    To me, Simo Häyhä is just one of the many souls who suffered trough that war. A very remarkable person, yes, but still just a man protecting his home like everyone else, we should never forget them.

    While its not in our nature to brag, the wars are nothing to brag about. Horrible things happened on both sides.

30. I remember when I found out about häyhä from memes in 9gag and I was so proud he was from Finland, but now days i see those memes I cringe.

31. One meme here and there is not a big deal. But overall, the amount of attention one man has gotten is really stupid. Most Finns have had parents and grandparents who were involved in both wars, so it’s quite difficult for everyone. What sacrifices those generations made during and after the wars. We do not worship individual war heroes.

32. I think it’s nice to see Finnish things brought up. But I think Finns don’t buy any hero myths. Everyone just did what they had to do. And war wasn’t far aeay, everyone was affected by it. Of course there was propaganda, but the normal soldiers laughed to it. The killing was just something that had to be done, not to boast. Many soldiers were reluctant to take the medals they were rewarded.

    But the wars were great deal to our independence. We werent fighting for “freedom” or “demoracy” as an ideal, we were literally fighting for our home. Against men, who like us, were ordered by some other guy.

33. Generally we don’t really like glorifying this type of stuff. Simo Häyhä was a hero but we respect him in silence.

34. I think that in those times a snper with ability to ski well ment more. No night vision or thermal cams. More forrest in a natural state that allows u to move easily yet provide both shelter and long range visibility. Actually we don’t make a big deal of him in here. Badassness of Finns is also seen mostly as a result of bad circustamses back then.

35. one example why Marshall Mannerheim told never seen such soldiers anywhere….
    but we must work hard so that such is never needed again…and Russia somehow changes…luckily worst Siloviks are 70+ so won’t be very long they are gone…

36. I think the memes are great. Good to see my boy Häyhä from time to time

37. Häyhä was a badass, but memeing him often goes overboard. If done in a way that you don’t diminish the efforts and actions of others, it’s ok. But when it’s growing more and more to the point that no one else mattered and had part in the war, then it’s just shitty memeing and probably only thing meme maker “knows” about Winter War.

    Edit: some typos

38. wack. glorifying war and killing is for suckers. wars are tragedies and they are not about individual accomplishments.

    all in all, many so-called war heroes are people who did what they had to. obviously there are psychopaths amongst the war heroes who found their calling and the environment where they can function as a productive member of society, but all in all individuals don’t win wars. armies that work like clockwork together and do the right things at the right time do. obviously there are heroic moments in there but i’d like to think that when someone has to be a hero – be it war or just everyday work – the system they are a part of has somehow fucked up and broken down.

    so the famous quote “show me a hero and i’ll write you a tragedy” is more what i personally believe in.

39. I have lived in Finland for 7 years permenently, and on and off for 26yrs. (My wife is a Finn).

    In my experience, people don’t really talk about the Winter and Continuation wars in general conversation. Usually, when there have been such conversations, they tend to focus on sadnnes of the wars, how many people were killed, people were made into refugees, territory was lost, especially Karelia.

    This has changed a bit in the last year. The similarities between the unprovoked invasions by Russia of Finland and Ukraine are very obvious.

    I have never really experienced any bragadocious sentiment/talk to do with the wars. Only amongst foreigners. On the contrary, I find peoples attitudes tend to be more stoic. They empathise with the fact everybody had their own experiences that were traumatic, and under terrible circumstances, hopefully never to be repeated.

    Häyhä is the most famous of the millions of heroes. My wife’s Grandfather, (long deceased), was a sniper on the front lines, addicted to Pervitin. He was a conscript, having been a farmer all his life. The family know very little about what he experienced and the torment he lived with. He didn’t talk about it and out of respect, people didn’t ask. He bacame an alcoholic and died of various illnesses.

    Most conversations I’ve had about the wars, have been about the ways families and people were affected.

    In general, I find most of the memes a bit tacky, for the reasons mentioned above. However, they can provide some kind of solace, I suppose.

40. Cringe