Well of course it is, it comes from a pro-Russian totalitarian dictatorship…
Any plan that is anything other than “Russia withdraws back behind its own borders and gets nothing” should be rejected.
What’s the alternative? Keep fighting for years and hoping your western allies won’t get tired of funding this stupid war? Russia already has most of the area they desire, this could go on for a very long time.
I think Ukraine should instead focus on Putin retiring if a peace deal is to be reached.
Russia should go back to Russias internationally recognised borders and we can have peace
Let me guess: give Russia whatever it wants and screw Ukrainian demands. This is what the Chinese view as “fair” in all of their interactions.
Nothing is fair in a Chinese state.
Ok? Are we pretending Estonia is important now?
The article makes an interesting point:
‘Moscow is using more artillery ammunition than the European industries can manufacture in a month’
The EU and NATO should prepare to increase manufacturing capacity in case of total war. In a war of attrition with Russia and China, manufacturing would be instrumental.
When is any peace plan fair?
tldr: Estonia wants more dead Ukrainians
All tho russian trolls in this comment section:
“Go fuck yourself”
Your soldiers will die for nothing in the end, Crimea will be back in Ukranian hands and life in your shitty dictatorships imperium will only get worse and worse. Dark times are coming for you comrades.
Слава Україні!
Meanwhile, the European Union which was created to bring peace to Europe has presented **no peace plan** to end the war in which thousands of Europeans are dying, that causes millions of refugees that are straining the resources of host countries and is threatening the economic stability of the union.
Meanwhile countries like Brazil or even autocracies like China do have suggestions for peace.
Meanwhile China has negotiated peace between Saudi Arabia and Iran! Arch-rivals Iran and SA are talking after decades of mistrust, imagine that.
Meanwhile the country every self-important euroredditor likes to laugh at and call an autocracy, Turkey has negotiated a grain deal which is feeding Africa while the EU was accidentally starving them through sanctions.
It seems everyone else except the EU is better at diplomacy or is at least trying, while EU politicians whine about how unfair the peace plan is. Then come up with a better plan, you bunch of useless whiners!
U.S. military here… russia and their new puppet master China can go take a long walk off a shirt pier.
The land taken by russian orcs during this illegal invasion shall be returned. China, you are witness to what happens when you try and bully your neighbor and taken their sovereign territory. Fuk around and find out. Cross us and your great grandkids will tell stories of the things we do to you.
Perhaps it’s not fair and all, but I honestly fail to see any more major discussions in EU about that. Right now, it’s basically Russia bad, but basically nothing is planned for aftermath of war. It may be early to plan carefully such things, but still at least some rough plan should be there.
BTW this article is quite poo. It states that “China’s peace proposal to end the war in Ukraine is “extremely unfair,” since the plan doesn’t respect the territorial integrity of the country, said the permanent secretary of Estonia’s Ministry of Defense and yet if you open the actual 12 statement plan, it clearly says:
“Respecting the sovereignty of all countries. Universally recognized international law, including the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter, must be strictly observed. The sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all countries must be effectively upheld. All countries, big or small, strong or weak, rich or poor, are equal members of the international community. All parties should jointly uphold the basic norms governing international relations and defend international fairness and justice. Equal and uniform application of international law should be promoted, while double standards must be rejected.”
So WTF? It’s either a garbage article or that Estonian bloke is really blind. That document alone sounds quite neutral about both parties and even a bit like “Yeah we don’t really give a shit about all this nonsense, just both of you fuck off and stop wrecking global economy”.
Nobody held out any real expectations that it would be even remotely fair.
It would have been pointless opening the envelope 🤷♀️
I read the 12 point plan and the bizarre thing is that, on the face of it, it makes sense, objectively, save for the fact that it blithely ignores the fact that Putin violated the first, and most important point.
This sub is full of military industrial payed bots . All pushing for war to go on . Lol i bet locals not happy experiencing uncertainty
17 comments
Well of course it is, it comes from a pro-Russian totalitarian dictatorship…
Any plan that is anything other than “Russia withdraws back behind its own borders and gets nothing” should be rejected.
What’s the alternative? Keep fighting for years and hoping your western allies won’t get tired of funding this stupid war? Russia already has most of the area they desire, this could go on for a very long time.
I think Ukraine should instead focus on Putin retiring if a peace deal is to be reached.
Russia should go back to Russias internationally recognised borders and we can have peace
Let me guess: give Russia whatever it wants and screw Ukrainian demands. This is what the Chinese view as “fair” in all of their interactions.
Nothing is fair in a Chinese state.
Ok? Are we pretending Estonia is important now?
The article makes an interesting point:
‘Moscow is using more artillery ammunition than the European industries can manufacture in a month’
The EU and NATO should prepare to increase manufacturing capacity in case of total war. In a war of attrition with Russia and China, manufacturing would be instrumental.
When is any peace plan fair?
tldr: Estonia wants more dead Ukrainians
All tho russian trolls in this comment section:
“Go fuck yourself”
Your soldiers will die for nothing in the end, Crimea will be back in Ukranian hands and life in your shitty dictatorships imperium will only get worse and worse. Dark times are coming for you comrades.
Слава Україні!
Meanwhile, the European Union which was created to bring peace to Europe has presented **no peace plan** to end the war in which thousands of Europeans are dying, that causes millions of refugees that are straining the resources of host countries and is threatening the economic stability of the union.
Meanwhile countries like Brazil or even autocracies like China do have suggestions for peace.
Meanwhile China has negotiated peace between Saudi Arabia and Iran! Arch-rivals Iran and SA are talking after decades of mistrust, imagine that.
Meanwhile the country every self-important euroredditor likes to laugh at and call an autocracy, Turkey has negotiated a grain deal which is feeding Africa while the EU was accidentally starving them through sanctions.
It seems everyone else except the EU is better at diplomacy or is at least trying, while EU politicians whine about how unfair the peace plan is. Then come up with a better plan, you bunch of useless whiners!
U.S. military here… russia and their new puppet master China can go take a long walk off a shirt pier.
The land taken by russian orcs during this illegal invasion shall be returned. China, you are witness to what happens when you try and bully your neighbor and taken their sovereign territory. Fuk around and find out. Cross us and your great grandkids will tell stories of the things we do to you.
Perhaps it’s not fair and all, but I honestly fail to see any more major discussions in EU about that. Right now, it’s basically Russia bad, but basically nothing is planned for aftermath of war. It may be early to plan carefully such things, but still at least some rough plan should be there.
BTW this article is quite poo. It states that “China’s peace proposal to end the war in Ukraine is “extremely unfair,” since the plan doesn’t respect the territorial integrity of the country, said the permanent secretary of Estonia’s Ministry of Defense and yet if you open the actual 12 statement plan, it clearly says:
“Respecting the sovereignty of all countries. Universally recognized international law, including the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter, must be strictly observed. The sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all countries must be effectively upheld. All countries, big or small, strong or weak, rich or poor, are equal members of the international community. All parties should jointly uphold the basic norms governing international relations and defend international fairness and justice. Equal and uniform application of international law should be promoted, while double standards must be rejected.”
So WTF? It’s either a garbage article or that Estonian bloke is really blind. That document alone sounds quite neutral about both parties and even a bit like “Yeah we don’t really give a shit about all this nonsense, just both of you fuck off and stop wrecking global economy”.
Nobody held out any real expectations that it would be even remotely fair.
It would have been pointless opening the envelope 🤷♀️
I read the 12 point plan and the bizarre thing is that, on the face of it, it makes sense, objectively, save for the fact that it blithely ignores the fact that Putin violated the first, and most important point.
This sub is full of military industrial payed bots . All pushing for war to go on . Lol i bet locals not happy experiencing uncertainty