In Switzerland, it shouldn’t be enough to know only English

22 comments

1. I hate it when German- and French-speakers converse in broken video game/Netflix English. They both know enough of both to say exactly the same thing but it’s not “cool”. Then there are all the stupid “English” commercials.

   If you’re a tourist you can get by in English just fine wherever. If not we have rich local languages that aren’t hard to learn.

2. Easy to ask people to learn a new language when you learned yourself without pain as a child.

3. If you were born in Switzerland and worked in Switzerland there would be no reason for you to learn english. You may learn French or Italian in school, but learning English is a pretty new development. English is not even an official language. So why do you complain after knowing how a country works? Do you expect Mandarin and Cantonese speakers in Asia also switch to English, just for your convenience?

4. Anyone moving to any non English speaking country should do what they can to be understood… Try Asia in English (not speaking about HKG or SGP) and come back complaining about swiss people not trying hard enough.

   Switzerland shouldn’t adapt to foreigners but foreigners should adapt to Switzerland.

5. I support a basic level of language competency in a cantonal approved language for residents. More than that for settlement permits. And more than that for citizenship. This is why people voted for new language requirements. English is fine to use, but one should speak the local language enough to communicate.

6. Moving to a country where English is not the primary language warrants the effort to learn at least one of the local languages, as anything less is just disrespectful.

   Also, considering that moving to another country usually involves careful planning, it is both practical and courteous to learn the local language during the preparation.

7. >Additionally, getting German lessons is much harder than one would
   expect. Beginner courses in my town are rarely set at times where a
   working commuter can attend (17:30 to 21:00) […]

   This sounds suspicious to me. I’ve been teaching German for over three years and every school I’ve been to and that I know offers classes during these hours. That’s when the schools make the most revenue, too, so I hardly believe you that you can’t find any schools that operate during this time. There are tons of private teachers, who aren’t really more expensive than schools, too. And since the pandemic most schools offer online classes so it doesn’t even matter where you live.

   And I guess as a German teacher I don’t have to tell you how much I loathe people who move to a country without even trying to learn one of multiple national languages.

   “While I do sympathise with people [who refuse to learn the language of the country they willingly decided to move to], it is the reality that as a [native you want to be able to stick to your native language in your home country because language is a big part of one’s identity and sense of belonging].”

   Seriously, I’m not anti-immigration and the SVP/UDC can rot where the sun doesn’t shine but these frequent entitled posts by immigrants who think that this country should be reshaped so that they don’t have to do the minimum effort to be able to survive in this country (knowing the language!) really make me angry.

8. People shouldn’t move somewhere without having at least conversational skills in the local language, but I think we could definitely make improvements on accessibility when it comes to language courses (such as addressing the issues you mentioned wrt cost & timing).

   What bothers me more tbh is how badly Swiss citizens do at speaking the languages of the regions they weren’t born in. The language curriculums really need to be improved. We should start learning way earlier, for one.

9. Honestly,
   I’m all in for languages to evolve.

   If swiss people are using english instead of speaking swiss-german or swiss-french when their native language is swiss-french or swiss-german, that simply means that english was easier to learn for them.

   As a romand I don’t even learn swiss-german in schools, I learned high german.
   And yet each time I were with swiss-german speakers, well, they spoke swiss-german and I didn’t understand a a thing anyway.
   “Hoch Deutsch Bitte” works for 3-4 minutes at best and quickly gets boring.

   I’ve had 2h a week of high german courses since primary school, and all through my CFC(EFZ). And yet I’m not even B1 level in german. When I’m supposed to be B1 when leaving secondary school and stay B1 through my CFC.

   Because I don’t care.
   Because I don’t use german even once a month.
   Because it’s not even swiss-german that I met in the army.

   And yet the army was my only swiss-german experience, but of course nobody there told me anything, or explained anything to me, except “Pour les romands c’est la même chose”. That’s all they knew about french that they supposedly learned at school too.

   Sorry but, I’ve only had english courses since secondary school. And yet, in my second year of CFC, I already passed the Cambridge FCE B2 level when I was like, 16-17 years old.

   English is just so widely used on the internet and in video games, and for anything really, it simply is a more useful language to me.

   Thing is, many people here don’t speak anything but their native language, not even english.
   And that’s just because they never need to speak anything else in their daily life. Simple as.
   Many romands also don’t speak a single word of english, and will throw garlic at you if you even mention swiss-german.

   Sorry everyone but,
   Our education system sucks ass. All it knows is force feeding and hoping you’ll keep what you were force fed. That does not mean it wasn’t worse before, but it can still be improved everywhere I can think of.

   If it doesn’t create a need for what it gives us, there is no way we will remember it over time.
   Especially languages and vocabulary. But even maths and physics. How many people can even use a Uniform Movement Formula even a few years after leaving school?

   Anyway, swiss people in general should not be expected to speak anything but their native language, since it’s all they need in their life.

   Even if the whole world were to speak a common language, everything would be easier. Because the language barrier is one of the most effective ways of separating humans. And we have more than ever examples of that in switzerland.

10. I could see Switzerland progressing into adopting English as another language in the future. Kids are learning it early in schools. Most people use it to get much more information off the internet. It’s also the easiest bridge language between all the other languages of this country. However I do believe that you should learn the language of the part of Switzerland you live in.

11. Do the Swiss accept it if you know the German language from Germany? Swiss German sounds quite different.

12. >Many Swiss people basically expect you to know German perfectly right after you move here.

    That’s a minority. What people resent is

    – not being able to order in your own local language at a standard restaurant (looking at you, Grand Café Lochergut – and I don’t think of Irish pubs, that’s completely fine).

    – having to deal with people that have been here for 10+ years and are not only unable to speak high German, but actually do not see a problem with this.

    – people complaining that established groups do not switch the language because one person from abroad joins.

    It used to be that if you planned to go abroad, you would prepare by getting the basics of the language beforehand…

    >I’ve experienced someone telling a person that moved to Switzerland to learn German after they’ve only been here 3 weeks…

    That’s unfortunate and probably not so nice. But a direct way to tell people how to succeed. You should also know that Swiss people use ‘you must’, ‘you should’ quite often, even if it’s not meant as an order. But I guess that’s part of learning the language.

13. I’m a 37 year old ticinese who has lived all over CH and now speaks acceptably well and fluently Italian, french and German +swiss German. Growing up I only ever spoke Italian at home and school.

    I worked with all kind of Swiss from all regions. And there is something about being swiss and integrated that goes beyond languages. There are many factors that could be blocking somebody to learn and speak a local language, from timidity to fear of misunderstanding and so on. I would not reduce integration= speaks a national language.

    I mean 600 years ago people would communicate in latin or some other common language and no one would bat an eye. There has always been and will always be a “lingua franca”.

    As one of the few fluently trilingual swiss guy, I wouldn’t have an issue to make English an officially supported national language. It would make things easier and feel less awkward. Switzerland has always been a mix of cultures and languages. Just add one more, even if not linked to a territory

14. I used to work for Credit Suisse. Despite engineering my move from their US offices to Switzerland, not only did they not offer any help learning the language, they wouldn’t even give me time off to take intensive courses. Since I had two children under the age of 2 when I moved, I couldn’t afford to take off evenings to take courses. My German is still rudimentary at best.

15. Assuming that one doesn’t yet have a family (and more importantly, children), you don’t need courses if you’re truly motivated to learn.

    Before I moved here years ago, I kept reading in job ads that “good knowledge of German is required/expected”. Since I had no idea what constituted “good” in terms of the CEFR scale, I just started learning it from scratch on my own and sat the C2 exam just to be safe. Of course, I had a fair bit of time to dedicate to my studies for a certain period, but the most crucial factor was motivation.

16. English becoming an officially recognized language in Switzerland is bound to happen, and there’s good reasons for that as many people in this thread have mentioned. More-so later than sooner.

    However, I don’t see why someone wouldn’t try a little bit to learn their local language. But I do sympathize with people unable to learn it well enough for a conversational level. It’s hard to learn to a new language, but can be and easy for others.

17. And make it easier for Anglos to move here ? Hmmm, nein danke, non merci, no grazie.

18. The article was a little bit alarmist. It went from stating that 1.4% of Swiss residents speak only English as a primary language, to bemoaning what locals will do if they go to the shops and ae forced to communicate in English.

    I’ve never been to a café in Switzerland where I wasn’t addressed in the local language first, so that “fear” seems a bit unfounded. Then again, the article has evidently worked perfectly in provoking outrage.

19. I agree. I did my phd in lausanne and learned french (I’m originally italian), now I am in Basel and I am learning german. Am I fluent? Nope! Do I try?? fuck yes, the TRAPATTONI WAY

20. Why move to a different country when you don’t learn the language beforehand and don’t have enough opportunity to fully learn it? Certainly don’t expect people to learn your language for you.

21. I moved to Zurich around 7 months ago and had taken French classes for a couple of years beforehand whilst at university in the UK. I got to B1 level, which has been very helpful for navigating insurance websites etc., but I only got the job offer in Zurich five months before moving here. Especially as I was finishing up my studies, it didn’t leave much time to take German classes. I did a crash course in the summer to go over the basics, but planned to start classes once I was settled and earning in Switzerland, but this hasn’t happened yet. Partly due to laziness on my end, but also for some other reasons, but I’ve got a few things I’ve found that might correspond to other people’s experience.

    My company operates in English and not many of my colleagues speak German, or are also still learning. Combined with Swiss German being the most common here in social situations, it makes it hard to actually get people to talk to you in German. It’s not impossible, e.g., in shops, cafes, museums etc. that aren’t too busy, staff members are often happy to oblige if you mention that you’re trying to practise your German, but still, regular practise is hard. In lieu of classes, I’ve found listening to podcasts (e.g., Alles gesagt from Zeit Online) and reading 20 Minuten on the tram to work have helped a lot. Plus there’s so many free resources online, but these all require self-motivation, so the structure of regular classes would definitely help.

    One the main reasons I haven’t started classes here yet is because of what’s actually on offer. Many of the language schools I’ve looked at, at least if I understand the websites correctly, split each CEFR level into two or even three parts (e.g., A1.1, A1.2, A1.3) that can each take 8 weeks and cost hundreds of francs. To me, this just isn’t worth the time or money. A1, for example, is such a basic level that it shouldn’t take 24 weeks and 1000+ CHF to obtain. Of course, everyone learns at different paces, and there’s many other factors, e.g., previous language education, age, native language, but when most of the courses seem to require >1k and multiple months for a piece of paper that says you can ask where the bathroom is, I think it can be offputting for a lot of people.

22. I transferred from Google’s US office to Zurich. While the company paid for ongoing German lessons for all employees, I found that most colleagues either didn’t enroll or struggled to make progress and eventually gave up. Unfortunately, I fell into the latter group.

    While it’s possible to get by in Zurich using only English, it’s not an ideal way to live. Because I believe language proficiency is important for living in a foreign country, I eventually decided to leave CH and return to the US, partly for this reason. My wife is Swiss German and speaks English fluently, and we now reside in the US. There are very few German speakers here, and I can’t imagine how difficult her life would be if she didn’t speak English at the level that she does.