If anything, it shows that when the government started meddling with the market more rents sky rocketed.
As an academic, Rory should know that it is misleading to start your Y-axis anywhere but zero. The situation is bad, but this is intentionally misleading.
For the millionth time:
Rent’s are high because we have a supply shortage.
If you start implementing rent controls, it just makes the housing shortage worse (and thereby the housing crisis worse), because less people build /rent, since they can’t make as much money.
This is literally econ 101.
Rent controls are great, if you already have a place. But terrible for anyone looking to move.
There were a lot of factors in making that decision to ensure that house prices kept rising and keeping property owning voters happy was one of them. It was done as it made a large portion of of the population satisfied with the value of their property rising. All the state bodies are guilty of fucking up not just the government (everyone forgets about local authorities role in this) but the government deserves the largest portion of blame.
Awful to see, will be voting in sf not because I think they’ll bring changes. But because we have had the other shower for what? 100 years now? Democracy
A couple of points about the data:
– rent pressure zones (I.e. rent control) were first introduced in 2016. Since then new rents have rocketed.
– 2010 is a bad year to start any graph about Ireland. It was just after a huge economic crash where prices of lots of thing s (including rent)were dropping. We had a couple years of deflation.
– a better correlation to new rent prices is our population change. In census our population was 4.2 million in 2011, the CSO says our population declined a bit every year from 2012 to 2014, then in the 2016 census it was up to 4.7m, and just last year it hit 5.1m. If that was plotted as a line on that graph it would be close to the Irish rent line. If you did the same for every other country on the graph it would also be close match. I know populations in the likes of Italy have stagnated over the past decade.
Rent controls aren’t the problem when you have so many fighting over a scare resource and you have gatekeepers all over the place objecting to more resources being created.
There’s no such thing as fair rent. What’s the fair rate of having to hand over money to someone who does nothing? What’s the fair rate of extortion?
Obviously no surprises.
Although, worth noting tjat rents were outrageously cheap relative to incomes in the early 2010s. Probably one pf the most affordable places in the world at the time – you could easily rent a double room in a nice part of Dublin for €400 a month and incomes weren’t THAT much lower. There was always going to be a correction to that environment because they were exceptionally low. Problem is, they didn’t stop rising after correcting because there’s no supply.
Incoming middle class “learn economics” bros on their way to tell everyone how this isn’t so bad and we should let the market decide.
What a waste of time.
I’m from Berlin don’t make our mistakes. Rent controls are populists solutions that make everything worse. Put pressure on the government to encourage building and give building permits.
Ah scarcity principle, in full swing.
Sure it’s all Sinn Féin’s fault. 🤥
But remember people, it’s not really a big deal, since cities that are _totally_ a fair size to compare to Dublin and not way too big or influential, like Sydney and New York, also have a housing crisis /s
You are forced to buy in this country
Personally I think it’s a bit of a smoke screen blaming landlords / investors / banks and that there is already too much government intervention in the housing market. Each time a relief for first time buyers is announced house prices increase by the same amount, the same happens when HAP rates are increased, so undoubtedly rent controls would have an equally detrimental effect on an already distorted market
This is just my personal opinion, but I think until Ireland accepts it is under going a migration crisis rather than a housing crisis things will not get better anytime soon. 2022, 40000 work permits, 75000 Ukrainian refugees, 13000 seeking international protection, 25000 student visas and then EU migrants. Even if Ukrainian numbers were excluded, Ireland could never keep up the amount of homes required to house 100,000 new arrivals per year.
As I said this is just my personal opinion and I treat everyone I meet in daily life with respect and decency.
Ireland is a vampire. A husk that drains the life and energy of us all. We were promised so much, and just as it came it to be our turn to get a slice, they closed the doors on our faces to keep more for themselves.
Gods, I wish I could emigrate *somewhere*.
We are a country of the dead; smiling corpses welcoming us as pale dead flesh falls from their mouth.
This graph explains perfectly why FF/FG should not ge allowed into government.
Those are early 1800s numbers
I wonder what was so different in 2010 that rents were way under the average… oh ya, we had loads of houses no one wanted.
**BUILD MORE HOUSES**
It really is that simple.
I’m sorry but the idea that the government is actively trying to make the topic that is making the electorate turn away for them worse is pure nonsense. If it was so profitable to be a landlord they wouldn’t be selling up. Also picking the literal rock bottom of the recession as a starting point like it was just a normal period of time is also silly.
It’s a great graph. It shows the problems were present long before the current refugees and asylum seekers arrived. If the government had acted decisively in 2015 we might have been better prepared to handle the current crisis.
Wealth for most people in Ireland is tied to home ownership.
The older demographic who show up in force to vote are typically already home owners and significantly more likley to be a landlord as well.
There is no incentive for FF or FG to actually fix the issue because a decent chunk of thier voter base are benifting from it.
But Sin Fein, and IRA and criminal ties…
The worst part is Leo saying that the good news is that the rent prices are starting to stabilize 🤤
Maybe makes sense to compare just the capital/most populated cities for a better like to like comparison
Being an Actuary, I know how Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want it to be.
That being said, there is no denying that we are in a terrible housing situation. We definitely need to build some mid-high rise residential building (at least 8 floors)
Bizarre take. Yea rental market is real attractive alright, that must be why landlords are leaving in record numbers and there’s no new houses coming on the market to rent.
There’s a lack of supply. Government is a joke. End of story.
Build apartments. Rent is sky high because every room in every house is a single independent renter paying what needs entire 1 bed apartment should cost.
Build more 1 or 2 bed apartments for that demand. Renters shouldn’t be taking up the housing market for buyers either. The renter market should be largely separate from the housing market to allow both to be sustainable.
Houses and housing estates are never going to meet the demand for the rent market. We need both
My bedroom on George Quay was 600 a month in 2010. I moved out since but it now goes for double. Like wtf
Kinda torpedoes the ‘things are just as bad everywhere else’ argument. The housing crisis is as bad as it is because of Irish government policy. Not some global trend.
68%??? Show me where that I will go right now.
By what I’ve experienced since 2015 till now its more than double.
2015 you could find a room for 350, 400 euros
Now its 900 to 1k in the area im living.
Leo Varadkar should literally be tarred and feathered. The arrogant prick has stolen the prospect of decent urban living from anyone in their twenties and thirties that doesn’t have parents with an apartment in the city.
I’d say “illustrated” rather than “explained”.
I’ve recently realised that anyone can buy property in Ireland, even foreigners such as wealthy Chinese individuals and funds (while the reverse is not true, only the Chinese can own property inside China for example). Insert any other nationality.
The financialisation and speculation on such basic things as homes SHOULD BE STOPPED. People’s homes should not be treated like financial commodities such as stocks or bonds!
I think the most irish thing ever was when they brought in that restriction where you could only increase rent a certain amount each year and all of a sudden rent that had been static for years went up by the maximum allowed ammout every year.
Thanks guys for making me feel less shit about being Dutch 👍
They’re doing the same in the US. I live in the Bay Area of California and despite the evacuation of the tech industry professionals following the pandemic, with historic commercial vacancies as well, rents haven’t collapsed. I read a great comment on Reddit that explained the rents *can’t* go down because that would raise the collateral requirements on loans to investors. So apartments sit empty and the market prices don’t adjust downwards.
It’s leading to a flood of either broke leases, or broke investors. We’ve been waiting for the bubble to pop for years, but part of our problem like Vancouver is Chinese and other foreign wealth propping it up. Still, something’s gotta give.
Good luck to you all! Starting with a vacancy tax and ban non-resident foreign ownership if you can!
I feel so entitled saying that at 25 I just want a one bedroom apartment, in Dublin or cork city. I want to try city living so badly because I hate living in the country. My boyfriend and I are recent graduates on grad salaries so there’s no hope we could get a place. The irony is that he works in cork city and I work in Dublin City, we work hybrid from my parents house. It’s so shitty and embarrassing honestly. I’d like to be able to have sex once or twice a week without having to wait until we’re sure my mother is asleep least she walk in unannounced. I feel like we’re stuck with this for the next couple years until we get really fed up and fuck of to Canada. I don’t care if that’s entitled of me to say. My parents got a mortgage for a four bed, at my age. All I’m asking for is a relatively affordable rental studio at least!
Just wait until the elderly care homes start closing
The free market is only free when it benefits the government or big private industry otherwise its tightly controlled or made illegal.
39 comments
I don’t understand what the y – axis is showing?
If anything, it shows that when the government started meddling with the market more rents sky rocketed.
As an academic, Rory should know that it is misleading to start your Y-axis anywhere but zero. The situation is bad, but this is intentionally misleading.
For the millionth time:
Rent’s are high because we have a supply shortage.
If you start implementing rent controls, it just makes the housing shortage worse (and thereby the housing crisis worse), because less people build /rent, since they can’t make as much money.
This is literally econ 101.
Rent controls are great, if you already have a place. But terrible for anyone looking to move.
There were a lot of factors in making that decision to ensure that house prices kept rising and keeping property owning voters happy was one of them. It was done as it made a large portion of of the population satisfied with the value of their property rising. All the state bodies are guilty of fucking up not just the government (everyone forgets about local authorities role in this) but the government deserves the largest portion of blame.
Awful to see, will be voting in sf not because I think they’ll bring changes. But because we have had the other shower for what? 100 years now? Democracy
A couple of points about the data:
– rent pressure zones (I.e. rent control) were first introduced in 2016. Since then new rents have rocketed.
– 2010 is a bad year to start any graph about Ireland. It was just after a huge economic crash where prices of lots of thing s (including rent)were dropping. We had a couple years of deflation.
– a better correlation to new rent prices is our population change. In census our population was 4.2 million in 2011, the CSO says our population declined a bit every year from 2012 to 2014, then in the 2016 census it was up to 4.7m, and just last year it hit 5.1m. If that was plotted as a line on that graph it would be close to the Irish rent line. If you did the same for every other country on the graph it would also be close match. I know populations in the likes of Italy have stagnated over the past decade.
Rent controls aren’t the problem when you have so many fighting over a scare resource and you have gatekeepers all over the place objecting to more resources being created.
There’s no such thing as fair rent. What’s the fair rate of having to hand over money to someone who does nothing? What’s the fair rate of extortion?
Obviously no surprises.
Although, worth noting tjat rents were outrageously cheap relative to incomes in the early 2010s. Probably one pf the most affordable places in the world at the time – you could easily rent a double room in a nice part of Dublin for €400 a month and incomes weren’t THAT much lower. There was always going to be a correction to that environment because they were exceptionally low. Problem is, they didn’t stop rising after correcting because there’s no supply.
Incoming middle class “learn economics” bros on their way to tell everyone how this isn’t so bad and we should let the market decide.
What a waste of time.
I’m from Berlin don’t make our mistakes. Rent controls are populists solutions that make everything worse. Put pressure on the government to encourage building and give building permits.
Ah scarcity principle, in full swing.
Sure it’s all Sinn Féin’s fault. 🤥
But remember people, it’s not really a big deal, since cities that are _totally_ a fair size to compare to Dublin and not way too big or influential, like Sydney and New York, also have a housing crisis /s
You are forced to buy in this country
Personally I think it’s a bit of a smoke screen blaming landlords / investors / banks and that there is already too much government intervention in the housing market. Each time a relief for first time buyers is announced house prices increase by the same amount, the same happens when HAP rates are increased, so undoubtedly rent controls would have an equally detrimental effect on an already distorted market
This is just my personal opinion, but I think until Ireland accepts it is under going a migration crisis rather than a housing crisis things will not get better anytime soon. 2022, 40000 work permits, 75000 Ukrainian refugees, 13000 seeking international protection, 25000 student visas and then EU migrants. Even if Ukrainian numbers were excluded, Ireland could never keep up the amount of homes required to house 100,000 new arrivals per year.
As I said this is just my personal opinion and I treat everyone I meet in daily life with respect and decency.
Ireland is a vampire. A husk that drains the life and energy of us all. We were promised so much, and just as it came it to be our turn to get a slice, they closed the doors on our faces to keep more for themselves.
Gods, I wish I could emigrate *somewhere*.
We are a country of the dead; smiling corpses welcoming us as pale dead flesh falls from their mouth.
This graph explains perfectly why FF/FG should not ge allowed into government.
Those are early 1800s numbers
I wonder what was so different in 2010 that rents were way under the average… oh ya, we had loads of houses no one wanted.
**BUILD MORE HOUSES**
It really is that simple.
I’m sorry but the idea that the government is actively trying to make the topic that is making the electorate turn away for them worse is pure nonsense. If it was so profitable to be a landlord they wouldn’t be selling up. Also picking the literal rock bottom of the recession as a starting point like it was just a normal period of time is also silly.
It’s a great graph. It shows the problems were present long before the current refugees and asylum seekers arrived. If the government had acted decisively in 2015 we might have been better prepared to handle the current crisis.
Wealth for most people in Ireland is tied to home ownership.
The older demographic who show up in force to vote are typically already home owners and significantly more likley to be a landlord as well.
There is no incentive for FF or FG to actually fix the issue because a decent chunk of thier voter base are benifting from it.
But Sin Fein, and IRA and criminal ties…
The worst part is Leo saying that the good news is that the rent prices are starting to stabilize 🤤
Maybe makes sense to compare just the capital/most populated cities for a better like to like comparison
Being an Actuary, I know how Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want it to be.
That being said, there is no denying that we are in a terrible housing situation. We definitely need to build some mid-high rise residential building (at least 8 floors)
Bizarre take. Yea rental market is real attractive alright, that must be why landlords are leaving in record numbers and there’s no new houses coming on the market to rent.
There’s a lack of supply. Government is a joke. End of story.
Build apartments. Rent is sky high because every room in every house is a single independent renter paying what needs entire 1 bed apartment should cost.
Build more 1 or 2 bed apartments for that demand. Renters shouldn’t be taking up the housing market for buyers either. The renter market should be largely separate from the housing market to allow both to be sustainable.
Houses and housing estates are never going to meet the demand for the rent market. We need both
My bedroom on George Quay was 600 a month in 2010. I moved out since but it now goes for double. Like wtf
Kinda torpedoes the ‘things are just as bad everywhere else’ argument. The housing crisis is as bad as it is because of Irish government policy. Not some global trend.
68%??? Show me where that I will go right now.
By what I’ve experienced since 2015 till now its more than double.
2015 you could find a room for 350, 400 euros
Now its 900 to 1k in the area im living.
Leo Varadkar should literally be tarred and feathered. The arrogant prick has stolen the prospect of decent urban living from anyone in their twenties and thirties that doesn’t have parents with an apartment in the city.
I’d say “illustrated” rather than “explained”.
I’ve recently realised that anyone can buy property in Ireland, even foreigners such as wealthy Chinese individuals and funds (while the reverse is not true, only the Chinese can own property inside China for example). Insert any other nationality.
The financialisation and speculation on such basic things as homes SHOULD BE STOPPED. People’s homes should not be treated like financial commodities such as stocks or bonds!
I think the most irish thing ever was when they brought in that restriction where you could only increase rent a certain amount each year and all of a sudden rent that had been static for years went up by the maximum allowed ammout every year.
Thanks guys for making me feel less shit about being Dutch 👍
They’re doing the same in the US. I live in the Bay Area of California and despite the evacuation of the tech industry professionals following the pandemic, with historic commercial vacancies as well, rents haven’t collapsed. I read a great comment on Reddit that explained the rents *can’t* go down because that would raise the collateral requirements on loans to investors. So apartments sit empty and the market prices don’t adjust downwards.
It’s leading to a flood of either broke leases, or broke investors. We’ve been waiting for the bubble to pop for years, but part of our problem like Vancouver is Chinese and other foreign wealth propping it up. Still, something’s gotta give.
Good luck to you all! Starting with a vacancy tax and ban non-resident foreign ownership if you can!
I feel so entitled saying that at 25 I just want a one bedroom apartment, in Dublin or cork city. I want to try city living so badly because I hate living in the country. My boyfriend and I are recent graduates on grad salaries so there’s no hope we could get a place. The irony is that he works in cork city and I work in Dublin City, we work hybrid from my parents house. It’s so shitty and embarrassing honestly. I’d like to be able to have sex once or twice a week without having to wait until we’re sure my mother is asleep least she walk in unannounced. I feel like we’re stuck with this for the next couple years until we get really fed up and fuck of to Canada. I don’t care if that’s entitled of me to say. My parents got a mortgage for a four bed, at my age. All I’m asking for is a relatively affordable rental studio at least!
Just wait until the elderly care homes start closing
The free market is only free when it benefits the government or big private industry otherwise its tightly controlled or made illegal.