Given the state of our elder care as evidence by numerous scandals over the decades I’ve no faith in the state being capable of administering such a program
Edit obviously euthanasia isn’t just for old people but afaik in states that have it, it’s definitely skewed that way demographically
Should be put to a vote like abortion and gay marriage and let the people decide.
>”Once permitted in a jurisdiction, experience has shown that more and more people die from assisted dying.”
Sure obviously!
There is a lot of scaremongering in that article.
I think it would be bad for old people but as someone who would use this service, I’d like to have it.
A couple of older relatives have said they fully plan on fucking off to Switzerland if it gets near the point where they would be going into a nursing home. Same sentiment myself.
This piece entirely focuses on the medical reasons for assisted suicide, but ignores the element of ‘dying with dignity’. While there may be no acute medical reasoning for suicide there may very well be plenty of other reasons. No-one wants to be the 98 year-old who can’t remember anyone anymore, is losing the power of speech, and needs to wear adult diapers.
I think it should definitely be an option. This debate is more about peoples moral values and ethics. Euthanasia isn’t just for the older people among us. We should have a vote on it
Liverpool pathway already used in Ireland.
It goes like this, admission to hospital, then heavy sedation, food and water in front of sedated person, clearly can’t be eaten.
Show the reports…and results of investigations into the botched administration of those methods for euthanasia Dr. This is a lot of the same fear language used around abortion legislation, and Dr Kelleher supported that (I googled, I don’t know him).
Palliative care in this country relies beyond belief on family carers. If the real extent of care was be agreed to be met fully by the state tomorrow, people would faint from shock at the cost. We’ve a chronic healthcare work shortage across the board and palliative care is no different because of shit pay and conditions (conditions caused by the shortages in staff in a never ending cycle). Also, most palliative care has been outsourced to the charity sector because, of course.
Hear of your elderly relative who’s without basic care supports on the weekend because of said shortage, sitting on the end of their bed crying because they can no longer dress themselves, yet they tried, and their equally frail partner didn’t hear them calling for half an hour because they were in the kitchen…
Fixing palliative care here will probably take billions and will never happen.
But it’s also fucking beside the point because if you’re making a choice not to live on in chronic pain or completely reliant on other people for your most basic human dignities for the rest of your natural life, that should be your choice.
Elderly relative above would never choose euthanasia, it’s against their religion. But I know someone a bunch younger who has said it to me that if shit goes more sideways for them, they’re on a plane to Switzerland if humanly possible because they don’t want to half live. And that should absolutely be their right to choose.
Being stuck in assisted living because you have no other possibility causes mental health problems also. Let’s not gloss over that one psychiatry people. So if you’re all about wanting to help people not be mentally unwell then why take something off the table that would end suffering.
And I understand there is a razor thin line between wanting to choose euthanasia as a medical outcome and suicide by your own hand but suicidal people don’t see a way out other than suicide because mental health care in this country is piss poor. How many posts have we seen even in here on the last month expressing suicidal thoughts?
People can’t get the care they need and take the final step themselves. Maybe a lot of those people would still be here if they had proper access to care but maybe a bunch of them would still choose the end things. It would be their choice.
Death of loved ones fucking sucks the biggest, bitterest lemon in the world. But if my sisters cancer had been discovered earlier and we’d been told it was still fatal, I’d have fully supported her not living for god knows how long in pain.
I definitely feel we often keep the sick people around us alive a lot longer than we should because it’s what we want, not what’s right for them.
Yes, we should have very robust safeguards in place so that we don’t end up with Logan’s Run around here but clear medical directives such as DNR’s [(AHD’s here)](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/legal_matters_and_health/advance_care_directives.html) should be a hell of a lot more common, we should all be able to speak openly about our wishes with family, and we should be able to die with dignity where possible.
People are already vulnerable because they can’t get the care they deserve should they want it.
I fucking despise these types of headlines:
**”Obvious change could cause obvious problem, says Captain Obvious”**
No fucking shit Mr Independent Journalist/Copy Editor, thank for spelling out a clear and obvious potential risk that anyone over the age of 16 would realise this causes and are already considering how to mitigate. What a fucking credit to journalism, to public discourse.
It’s literally fucking clickbait journalism. I know the independent is a fucking rag anyway, red top for people who think they’re too good for red tops, but I still expect better.
Sorry for the rant, just this fucking shit is really getting on my nerves, especially since covid.
They’re very bad with risk.
No repeat ADHD medication, because of the risk of not having to faff with monthly scripts and psych bills.
No medical cannabis, because of the risk of (it is uncertain but we are sure that there is some significant risk somewhere, in contradiction to research.)
Etc.
Euthanasia with vague, uninformed or no consent is commonplace in the Netherlands. Indeed doctors have confided in me to being pressured by families to euthanize unconscious patients. This is why the UK or Swiss model where the person actually has to do the act themselves is far more ethical. In the Dutch model the doctor can do it.
Assholes that make a fortune prolonging the suffering of others warn against assisted suicide
It makes sense.
Death is not the worst thing. Constantly being in a state of pain is. Or lack of mind. Or lack of actual life.
Existing is not the same as living.
If your mind has nearly ceased to function beyond the most basic things responsible for life support – that’s not life.
If you have to be assisted to live indefinitely without being able to do absolutely anything – that’s pointless.
If your life destroying condition has no cure or will never have it in a foreseeable future – you should have a choice.
Do people really want to live with Stage 4 malignancy? Or practically destroyed brain? I don’t think so.
We have to stay backwards because our dinosaur government wants private healthcare and the people barely able to keep their head above water.
I think the fact that this is coming from psychiatrists, who see a lot of reversible and temporary suicidal thoughts and actions from people with depression every day, is informing their position here.
I think, much like abortion and same sex marriage, there’s been a societal shift on euthanasia over the last couple of decades. Would be interesting to see what the polls say on this.
Wasn’t it the same group that last year came out with a paper saying cannabis was the ‘biggest threat to young people in Ireland’?
19 comments
Given the state of our elder care as evidence by numerous scandals over the decades I’ve no faith in the state being capable of administering such a program
Edit obviously euthanasia isn’t just for old people but afaik in states that have it, it’s definitely skewed that way demographically
Should be put to a vote like abortion and gay marriage and let the people decide.
>”Once permitted in a jurisdiction, experience has shown that more and more people die from assisted dying.”
Sure obviously!
There is a lot of scaremongering in that article.
I think it would be bad for old people but as someone who would use this service, I’d like to have it.
A couple of older relatives have said they fully plan on fucking off to Switzerland if it gets near the point where they would be going into a nursing home. Same sentiment myself.
This piece entirely focuses on the medical reasons for assisted suicide, but ignores the element of ‘dying with dignity’. While there may be no acute medical reasoning for suicide there may very well be plenty of other reasons. No-one wants to be the 98 year-old who can’t remember anyone anymore, is losing the power of speech, and needs to wear adult diapers.
I think it should definitely be an option. This debate is more about peoples moral values and ethics. Euthanasia isn’t just for the older people among us. We should have a vote on it
Liverpool pathway already used in Ireland.
It goes like this, admission to hospital, then heavy sedation, food and water in front of sedated person, clearly can’t be eaten.
Then person dies.
Comments on notes [Please make comfortable ](https://youtu.be/JqxdLTh7iE8)
Show the reports…and results of investigations into the botched administration of those methods for euthanasia Dr. This is a lot of the same fear language used around abortion legislation, and Dr Kelleher supported that (I googled, I don’t know him).
Palliative care in this country relies beyond belief on family carers. If the real extent of care was be agreed to be met fully by the state tomorrow, people would faint from shock at the cost. We’ve a chronic healthcare work shortage across the board and palliative care is no different because of shit pay and conditions (conditions caused by the shortages in staff in a never ending cycle). Also, most palliative care has been outsourced to the charity sector because, of course.
Hear of your elderly relative who’s without basic care supports on the weekend because of said shortage, sitting on the end of their bed crying because they can no longer dress themselves, yet they tried, and their equally frail partner didn’t hear them calling for half an hour because they were in the kitchen…
Fixing palliative care here will probably take billions and will never happen.
But it’s also fucking beside the point because if you’re making a choice not to live on in chronic pain or completely reliant on other people for your most basic human dignities for the rest of your natural life, that should be your choice.
Elderly relative above would never choose euthanasia, it’s against their religion. But I know someone a bunch younger who has said it to me that if shit goes more sideways for them, they’re on a plane to Switzerland if humanly possible because they don’t want to half live. And that should absolutely be their right to choose.
Being stuck in assisted living because you have no other possibility causes mental health problems also. Let’s not gloss over that one psychiatry people. So if you’re all about wanting to help people not be mentally unwell then why take something off the table that would end suffering.
And I understand there is a razor thin line between wanting to choose euthanasia as a medical outcome and suicide by your own hand but suicidal people don’t see a way out other than suicide because mental health care in this country is piss poor. How many posts have we seen even in here on the last month expressing suicidal thoughts?
People can’t get the care they need and take the final step themselves. Maybe a lot of those people would still be here if they had proper access to care but maybe a bunch of them would still choose the end things. It would be their choice.
Death of loved ones fucking sucks the biggest, bitterest lemon in the world. But if my sisters cancer had been discovered earlier and we’d been told it was still fatal, I’d have fully supported her not living for god knows how long in pain.
I definitely feel we often keep the sick people around us alive a lot longer than we should because it’s what we want, not what’s right for them.
Yes, we should have very robust safeguards in place so that we don’t end up with Logan’s Run around here but clear medical directives such as DNR’s [(AHD’s here)](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/legal_matters_and_health/advance_care_directives.html) should be a hell of a lot more common, we should all be able to speak openly about our wishes with family, and we should be able to die with dignity where possible.
People are already vulnerable because they can’t get the care they deserve should they want it.
I fucking despise these types of headlines:
**”Obvious change could cause obvious problem, says Captain Obvious”**
or
**”New change, poses obvious risk, warn concerned change experts”**
No fucking shit Mr Independent Journalist/Copy Editor, thank for spelling out a clear and obvious potential risk that anyone over the age of 16 would realise this causes and are already considering how to mitigate. What a fucking credit to journalism, to public discourse.
It’s literally fucking clickbait journalism. I know the independent is a fucking rag anyway, red top for people who think they’re too good for red tops, but I still expect better.
Sorry for the rant, just this fucking shit is really getting on my nerves, especially since covid.
They’re very bad with risk.
No repeat ADHD medication, because of the risk of not having to faff with monthly scripts and psych bills.
No medical cannabis, because of the risk of (it is uncertain but we are sure that there is some significant risk somewhere, in contradiction to research.)
Etc.
Euthanasia with vague, uninformed or no consent is commonplace in the Netherlands. Indeed doctors have confided in me to being pressured by families to euthanize unconscious patients. This is why the UK or Swiss model where the person actually has to do the act themselves is far more ethical. In the Dutch model the doctor can do it.
Assholes that make a fortune prolonging the suffering of others warn against assisted suicide
It makes sense.
Death is not the worst thing. Constantly being in a state of pain is. Or lack of mind. Or lack of actual life.
Existing is not the same as living.
If your mind has nearly ceased to function beyond the most basic things responsible for life support – that’s not life.
If you have to be assisted to live indefinitely without being able to do absolutely anything – that’s pointless.
If your life destroying condition has no cure or will never have it in a foreseeable future – you should have a choice.
Do people really want to live with Stage 4 malignancy? Or practically destroyed brain? I don’t think so.
We have to stay backwards because our dinosaur government wants private healthcare and the people barely able to keep their head above water.
I think the fact that this is coming from psychiatrists, who see a lot of reversible and temporary suicidal thoughts and actions from people with depression every day, is informing their position here.
I think, much like abortion and same sex marriage, there’s been a societal shift on euthanasia over the last couple of decades. Would be interesting to see what the polls say on this.
Wasn’t it the same group that last year came out with a paper saying cannabis was the ‘biggest threat to young people in Ireland’?