Why didn’t the racist police arrest these people surely they would have been over the moon to stop this.
[deleted]
Well, he’s hardly going to say “yes, I’m a massive racist, and all my colleagues are racists” is he?
Well he’s right tbf. Every time you read or hear more or less anything about either report, people make it amazingly clear they don’t understand the meaning of the term.
Just for the avoidance of doubt, if you accept that everyone has unconscious biases which influence their behaviour, which is the prevailing view among the anti-police crowd, the police can never *not* be institutionally racist under the Macpherson definition (as it includes “unwitting bias” in its definiton). Casey used a different definition in fairness, but then how useful is a term which means different things depending on which report you’re referencing? It’s an amazingly unhelpful term at this point. It doesn’t use a consistent legal meaning, and it doesn’t line up with the meaning of its everyday English interpretation either.
Apart from the Met which definitely is and now I’m certainly very suspicious about his too
“LMAO”
– Every Black and Asian Briton who has ever had dealings with the police.
He’s playing the old “it means different things to different people” game — by his own terms, it should be fine for news services to report this as “Chief Constable says all police forces are institutionally racist”.
I think that’s fair enough. You always get some in any vast organisation that fall short of standards required and as long as efforts are made to find them and remove them then alls good. It’s become too easy to tar everyone with the same brush and use the word “institutional”. This is particularly the case with race and gender issues . Maybe some should take a bit of time out to reflect on how well these vital services serve the majority of us
just like chief constable watson, i don’t know enough about the individual police forces across the UK to say they are / aren’t all institutionally racist but i can tell u with 100% certainty they’re all institutionally classist, wish I would see more discussion of that in news media
I had to on a training course about that in the early 00’s when it was a big deal. The guy running the course gave us a 10 minute talk on institutional racism and asked if there was anyone who didn’t understand. Everyone did. That, he claimed, made us smarter than every single copper, inc Chief Constables, who he’d taught the same course too. I thought he was exaggerating at the time but now I’m not sure.
how would he know about anywhere other than Manchester?
The inquiry says otherwise. You can admit it and address it, or like you’re doing, put your head in the sand and pretend everything is awesome!
My great uncle was a chief constable and retired in the late 70s. He mainly was in Hampshire and southern county forces but did a stint with the Met when they were doing some crossover experience. He was alive when the Stephen Lawrence murder happened. I wasn’t very old maybe 12 when he last spoke about it. He was seething over the Met and how they never bloody change and that he refused to deal with them in the latter part of his career as their mindset went against graaa roots policing. He said they all thought they were the dogs whatnots and acted like The Sweeny.
He was a very kind man, had been in the Navy during the war and left to go into the police. He hated bullies, something about his time in the Navy as a midshipman. I remember I punched kid at school (actually retaliated because he was picking on me). My dad told me off, but Uncle Wally found out and drove down to have a word.
That word was very quiet but stuck with me. He really hated bullies but hated violence even more. His advice was that words and actions defuse situations better than threats and violence. That you need to maintain an open mind and see a situation from each point, and if you can’t, you shouldn’t get involved until you can.
Then he told me the Tipperary joke and that was that.
He would have been pleased with the outcome of the report in that the warts and all are on show and that action can now be taken to fix it. I think he would be seething as he really hated the Met. Police.
If anyone tried to bullshit him he would say they were “spitting in his tea and calling it milk”. I think he would have said this guy is doing that.
“I hear your a racist now father” – craggy island resident
What’s funny about this is it’s the police that opened up the whole “institutionally racist” door when they were trying to cover up a bigger problem in the form of massive corruption that allowed those racists killers of Stephen Lawrence to get away with it.
The police turning a blind eye had little to do with racism imo, one of the murderers fathers was a big criminal in Kent/SE and had the local police on his payroll. That’s why they got away with it.
They knew that most black people will think they have landed in Wakanda if they get the police admitting to being racist, so we accepted it.
The only way I will accept they are not “institutionally racist” is if they admit they are extremely corrupt and said corruption allowed murderers to escape justice.
Greater Manchester Police racism scandal in 5…4…3…
Missed a comma
No, UK Police force is institutionally racist
What institutionalised racism? Cops are corrupt to us white people aswell…
All the police officers and former police officers I’ve heard talking about this say otherwise.
They talk about the police being a bit of a ‘boy’s club’, where inappropriate behaviour is encouraged and anyone calling it out gets ostracized.
However much that may fly in the face of officially policy, or ‘our force’s values’, it still happens, on every level, and is thus institutional.
I would argue that the higher up you are, the more desensitized you are to the toxicity, because you came up through the ranks of it without being ostracized.
I’ve even had some of it, myself. When I was a teenager in school, most of my friends were boys. They (and me by extension) would sit on the bus and ride through Southall and we had a game called ‘spot the white person’.
Now, I’m not racist. It’s because I’m not that I can look back and understand that that game was. And me playing it… Well, that means *I* was. It doesn’t matter that I was just a stupid teenager having fun with a group of boys, and ‘didn’t mean anything’ by it. Personal feelings and intent don’t factor into whether or not voluntarily deciding to do racist things makes you racist.
How about institutionally classist? That is the bigger problem in my view, and it explains a lot of the racisms.
It’s a bit pathetic really.
You need leadership to create seismic changes when something of this magnitude is so clearly broken and yet here we are, avoiding and deflecting the issue.
Also, he’s giving his own officers little credit if he thinks labelling them institutionally racist is the same as labelling them all racist as I bet there’s more good than bad in the force that would like to see positive change but leadership at all levels has been lacking in supporting and investigating reports and not just simply dismissing it as “lol, bantz”.
I think people should read it, it seems the big smoke cloud is police being racist, however the report touches many other factors, such as why it is such a shit show and voilà, dudes like this are to blame.
The term ‘institutionally racist’ suggests that the CCs are inserting racist training and policies into the force standards.
That obviously isn’t happening, so the statement is correct, no?
Police officers are people. Some people hold racist views. At some point that Venn Diagram is going to create a subset of those two groups and no amount of vetting is going to stop that.
But saying that police forces are actively telling new recruits to be racist is absolute nonsense.
This is basically an argument over what “institutional” means.
Hard to believe that grooming gangs nationwide would be able to conduct their business undisturbed over decades If the police force of the country were ‘institutionally racist’ or the uk as a whole were ‘white supremacist‘
Head of institution found to be racist sticks head in sand
Quite right, the problem lies with the black community, until they are confronted with that they will never change.
28 comments
He then looked directly into the camera lens and gave a cheeky wink
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greater-manchester-police-chief-admits-23724781
Why didn’t the racist police arrest these people surely they would have been over the moon to stop this.
[deleted]
Well, he’s hardly going to say “yes, I’m a massive racist, and all my colleagues are racists” is he?
Well he’s right tbf. Every time you read or hear more or less anything about either report, people make it amazingly clear they don’t understand the meaning of the term.
Just for the avoidance of doubt, if you accept that everyone has unconscious biases which influence their behaviour, which is the prevailing view among the anti-police crowd, the police can never *not* be institutionally racist under the Macpherson definition (as it includes “unwitting bias” in its definiton). Casey used a different definition in fairness, but then how useful is a term which means different things depending on which report you’re referencing? It’s an amazingly unhelpful term at this point. It doesn’t use a consistent legal meaning, and it doesn’t line up with the meaning of its everyday English interpretation either.
Apart from the Met which definitely is and now I’m certainly very suspicious about his too
“LMAO”
– Every Black and Asian Briton who has ever had dealings with the police.
He’s playing the old “it means different things to different people” game — by his own terms, it should be fine for news services to report this as “Chief Constable says all police forces are institutionally racist”.
I think that’s fair enough. You always get some in any vast organisation that fall short of standards required and as long as efforts are made to find them and remove them then alls good. It’s become too easy to tar everyone with the same brush and use the word “institutional”. This is particularly the case with race and gender issues . Maybe some should take a bit of time out to reflect on how well these vital services serve the majority of us
just like chief constable watson, i don’t know enough about the individual police forces across the UK to say they are / aren’t all institutionally racist but i can tell u with 100% certainty they’re all institutionally classist, wish I would see more discussion of that in news media
I had to on a training course about that in the early 00’s when it was a big deal. The guy running the course gave us a 10 minute talk on institutional racism and asked if there was anyone who didn’t understand. Everyone did. That, he claimed, made us smarter than every single copper, inc Chief Constables, who he’d taught the same course too. I thought he was exaggerating at the time but now I’m not sure.
how would he know about anywhere other than Manchester?
The inquiry says otherwise. You can admit it and address it, or like you’re doing, put your head in the sand and pretend everything is awesome!
My great uncle was a chief constable and retired in the late 70s. He mainly was in Hampshire and southern county forces but did a stint with the Met when they were doing some crossover experience. He was alive when the Stephen Lawrence murder happened. I wasn’t very old maybe 12 when he last spoke about it. He was seething over the Met and how they never bloody change and that he refused to deal with them in the latter part of his career as their mindset went against graaa roots policing. He said they all thought they were the dogs whatnots and acted like The Sweeny.
He was a very kind man, had been in the Navy during the war and left to go into the police. He hated bullies, something about his time in the Navy as a midshipman. I remember I punched kid at school (actually retaliated because he was picking on me). My dad told me off, but Uncle Wally found out and drove down to have a word.
That word was very quiet but stuck with me. He really hated bullies but hated violence even more. His advice was that words and actions defuse situations better than threats and violence. That you need to maintain an open mind and see a situation from each point, and if you can’t, you shouldn’t get involved until you can.
Then he told me the Tipperary joke and that was that.
He would have been pleased with the outcome of the report in that the warts and all are on show and that action can now be taken to fix it. I think he would be seething as he really hated the Met. Police.
If anyone tried to bullshit him he would say they were “spitting in his tea and calling it milk”. I think he would have said this guy is doing that.
“I hear your a racist now father” – craggy island resident
What’s funny about this is it’s the police that opened up the whole “institutionally racist” door when they were trying to cover up a bigger problem in the form of massive corruption that allowed those racists killers of Stephen Lawrence to get away with it.
The police turning a blind eye had little to do with racism imo, one of the murderers fathers was a big criminal in Kent/SE and had the local police on his payroll. That’s why they got away with it.
They knew that most black people will think they have landed in Wakanda if they get the police admitting to being racist, so we accepted it.
The only way I will accept they are not “institutionally racist” is if they admit they are extremely corrupt and said corruption allowed murderers to escape justice.
Greater Manchester Police racism scandal in 5…4…3…
Missed a comma
No, UK Police force is institutionally racist
What institutionalised racism? Cops are corrupt to us white people aswell…
All the police officers and former police officers I’ve heard talking about this say otherwise.
They talk about the police being a bit of a ‘boy’s club’, where inappropriate behaviour is encouraged and anyone calling it out gets ostracized.
However much that may fly in the face of officially policy, or ‘our force’s values’, it still happens, on every level, and is thus institutional.
I would argue that the higher up you are, the more desensitized you are to the toxicity, because you came up through the ranks of it without being ostracized.
I’ve even had some of it, myself. When I was a teenager in school, most of my friends were boys. They (and me by extension) would sit on the bus and ride through Southall and we had a game called ‘spot the white person’.
Now, I’m not racist. It’s because I’m not that I can look back and understand that that game was. And me playing it… Well, that means *I* was. It doesn’t matter that I was just a stupid teenager having fun with a group of boys, and ‘didn’t mean anything’ by it. Personal feelings and intent don’t factor into whether or not voluntarily deciding to do racist things makes you racist.
How about institutionally classist? That is the bigger problem in my view, and it explains a lot of the racisms.
It’s a bit pathetic really.
You need leadership to create seismic changes when something of this magnitude is so clearly broken and yet here we are, avoiding and deflecting the issue.
Also, he’s giving his own officers little credit if he thinks labelling them institutionally racist is the same as labelling them all racist as I bet there’s more good than bad in the force that would like to see positive change but leadership at all levels has been lacking in supporting and investigating reports and not just simply dismissing it as “lol, bantz”.
I think people should read it, it seems the big smoke cloud is police being racist, however the report touches many other factors, such as why it is such a shit show and voilà, dudes like this are to blame.
The term ‘institutionally racist’ suggests that the CCs are inserting racist training and policies into the force standards.
That obviously isn’t happening, so the statement is correct, no?
Police officers are people. Some people hold racist views. At some point that Venn Diagram is going to create a subset of those two groups and no amount of vetting is going to stop that.
But saying that police forces are actively telling new recruits to be racist is absolute nonsense.
This is basically an argument over what “institutional” means.
Hard to believe that grooming gangs nationwide would be able to conduct their business undisturbed over decades If the police force of the country were ‘institutionally racist’ or the uk as a whole were ‘white supremacist‘
Head of institution found to be racist sticks head in sand
Quite right, the problem lies with the black community, until they are confronted with that they will never change.