Hello,
My grandfather (passed away when I was very young and didn’t get to know him) was a painter. I found this partial scan of a photo of him and I understand that it is likely in Vienna, Austria or Munich (possibly Geretsried), Germany. We think the photo could be from 1944-1948 but most likely around 1947.
My family fled Europe to escape persecution, so we don’t really have any records for that period of time. They were living in fear and didn’t leave any footprints. I am trying to trace their steps through Europe and learn about their journey.
I grew up in Canada, I now live in California and have never been to Austria. The distance is making it difficult to do much research. I am planning a trip this summer and would love to connect with this art and experience something that my grandfather left behind.
Does anyone recognize this painting and know what church it was in? Is it still there?
Thank you.
22 comments
Why do you think this is from Austria or Munich? Any more information you could give us? You don’t have the original pic? Maybe a name?
There are *so many* churches in Austria and Germany, you’d need to be very lucky if someone recognize this here the way I see it.
yup, that’s a church painting.
> painting made in 1947
> Afterwards escape western Europe to avoid prosecution
🤔🤔🤔
Do you have a Name? Its hard to identify it with so little information.
That’s quite a unusual style with Maria as a queen sitting on a throne in a tunic, facing front in a bossy facial expression. The rays are very geometrical going outward. Much more common are Maria looking at the baby in a worrying or motherly facial expression.
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=thron+maria+mit+kind+kirchengem%C3%A4lde&atb=v101-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=thron+maria+mit+kind+kirchengem%C3%A4lde&atb=v101-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images)
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=k%C3%B6nigin+maria+mit+kind+gem%C3%A4lde&atb=v101-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=k%C3%B6nigin+maria+mit+kind+gem%C3%A4lde&atb=v101-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images)
It is not quite clear to me whether in the back is a room tapestry, or marble in a church. But there is no frame to the painting, which is also unusual.
Are you sure it would be in a church? It could also be in a private collection. Perhaps try to contact a museum (perhaps in Vienna), or the Jewish community in Austria.
Are there no markings on the backside of the photo?
You could always try to get in touch with the relevant authorities, such as the Bischofskonferenz in Austria [https://www.bischofskonferenz.at/kontakt](https://www.bischofskonferenz.at/kontakt). They’re usually open to assisting historical research, and might be able to point you in the right direction. The same goes for the protestant church in Austria ([https://evang.at/kontakt/](https://evang.at/kontakt/)).
Use google reverse image search, could be helpful to at least narrow it down
I did a quick search for Geretsried and it’s churches. Turns out they were all build after WW II, though not as soon as 1948. But there were big communities of “Vertriebene”.
Can’t hurt to contact them [https://stadtkirche-geretsried.de/stadtkirche/pfarreien/](https://stadtkirche-geretsried.de/stadtkirche/pfarreien/)
This is a picture of Maria, which is a strong indication, that we are dealing with either a catholic or an eastern orthodox context here. The painting style is pseudo Byzantine, probably using a lot of gold, as seen in some churches build around the 1870ies. My impression is, your grandfather isn’t painting, but doing restoration work, here.
While this historicist eastern/Byzantine/Venetian rendering style can be seen in some catholic churches, it certainly isn’t too common. I’d rather look into orthodox churches.
Looks like eastern orthodox style.
There are some churches in Vienna
(Syrian orthodox, rusfian or ukrdinian orthofox, greek, even serbian, …)
You have much work, so don’t be lazy 😉
You’re mentioning Romania and the painting gives off a bit of an orthodox vibe. I found three romanian-orthodox churches in Vienna, the Kapelle at Löwelstraße shows some similar floral patterns like on the painting:
https://www.google.com/search?q=rum%C3%A4nische%20kirche%20wien&oq=rum%C3%A4nische+kirche+wien&aqs=chrome..69i57.6300j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:2&tbm=lcl&rflfq=1&num=10&rldimm=1908332756900816953&lqi=ChdydW3DpG5pc2NoZSBraXJjaGUgd2llbkijkbj2l4KAgAhaLxAAEAEYABgBGAIiF3J1bcOkbmlzY2hlIGtpcmNoZSB3aWVuKgYIAhAAEAEyAmRlkgEGY2h1cmNoqgEiEAEyHhABIhr6kzPSmM5YonTU1htEjz5HOvv28QbnAFwoMA&ved=2ahUKEwii9IXrkqn-AhVT_rsIHY3ED1EQvS56BAgYEAE&sa=X&rlst=f#rlfi=hd:;si:10426432395753701905,l,ChdydW3DpG5pc2NoZSBraXJjaGUgd2llbkiDqO2A64CAgAhaLxAAEAEYABgBGAIiF3J1bcOkbmlzY2hlIGtpcmNoZSB3aWVuKgYIAhAAEAEyAmRlkgEPY2F0aG9saWNfY2h1cmNoqgEiEAEyHhABIhr6kzPSmM5YonTU1htEjz5HOvv28QbnAFwoMA;mv:[[48.2310435,16.4250731],[48.1663909,16.3592202]]
The website states that the paintings are from the 1960s, though. Still, you could try to contact the romanian parish and ask: office@rumkirche.at
Hey, i would look into the region of Sibiu in Romania. My GrandGrandfather was a painter and the painting of him, look very similar to your Grandfathers picture. There are a tons of churches around that area with this style of painting…
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Octavian_Smigelschi
thats him
what kind of persecution? this could also be a lead for where and what kind of church it was.
You can always contact the faculty of theology (in this case their eastern churches department). They most likely would help you. I did take a few elective courses there.
[here](http://www.okk-ktf.univie.ac.at)
There is something about the timeframe you estimated, which doesn´t seem right to me. You describe your family – Jewish? – to have been forced to flee Europe to avoid prosecution (from Nazis?) which would make no sense after 45.
Maybe we can help understand the situation your family was in by providing more information. I am quite interested in ancestry and maybe I can help with some sources depending on the info.
I highly doubt he painted this in a catholic church, as it reminds me of this particular orthodox icon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panachranta_(icon)
Was he in Romania or Greece during that period by any chance?
I recommend reaching out to some universities and art history departments. Even one so the US that have study abroad programs in Vienna or other areas you mentioned it could be from. When we did our study abroad there, we spent a lot of time visiting different churches for architecture and art styles
Maybe search out present day iconographers. In their study of becoming an iconographer they may have learned about this particular piece in their older books etc.
https://www.monasteryicons.com
Or Alexandra Kiely mentioned here: https://www.thecollector.com/byzantine-art-iconography/
Or just Google search for iconographers and email the pic to the ones you find and they may know something.
I doubt this is in a church. I have never seen a Church with a Wallpaper.
The painting seems to be an orthodox church painting. Romania is 90% plus orthodox and has a lot of orthodox churches. Maybe the easiest next step is to ask the same question in the romanian subreddit.
You could contact Romanian associations in Vienna. I found the Romanian Culture Institute http://www.rkiwien.at/?locale=de and the Austrian-Romanian Society https://austrom.eu/.