Olá a todos! Sou da Escócia e tive o prazer de visitar o vosso belo país, Portugal, em 2021. Gostei muito da minha estadia e mal posso esperar para voltar um dia. Infelizmente, estou agora a enfrentar um problema com o qual espero que alguns de vocês possam ajudar-me.
Recentemente, recebi uma multa de 3.242,70 euros (informada pela empresa de aluguer de carros) por 5 portagens não pagas durante a minha viagem. Para ser sincero, estou em choque com o que aconteceu. A minha melhor suposição é que pode ter havido um problema com o meu cartão bancário ou com o sistema de pagamento, fazendo com que as cobranças fossem rejeitadas ou processadas de forma inadequada.
Estou a entrar em contacto com a comunidade do r/Portugal para saber se alguém tem conhecimento de algum serviço ou agência em Portugal que me possa ajudar a resolver este problema. Agradeço qualquer conselho sobre como tratar deste assunto e, se possível, reduzir a multa. Embora compreenda que deveria ter sido mais vigilante com as portagens, o valor parece excessivo e tenho esperança de que haja uma forma de resolver isto.
Muito obrigado antecipadamente por qualquer ajuda ou sugestões que possam oferecer. A vossa ajuda é muito apreciada!
Nota: a carta em anexo refere-se a 2006, isto é um erro. Foi confirmado que é 2021.
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Olá a todos! I’m from Scotland and had the pleasure of visiting your beautiful country, Portugal, back in 2021. I truly enjoyed my time there and eagerly look forward to returning someday. Unfortunately, I am now facing a problem that I hope some of you might be able to help me with.
I recently received a fine of 3,242.70 euros (informed via the car rental company) for 5 unpaid road toll charges during my trip. To be honest, I am in shock about how this happened. My best guess is that there might have been an issue with my bank card or the payment system, causing the charges to be rejected or improperly processed.
I am reaching out to the r/Portugal community to see if anyone is aware of a service or agency in Portugal that could help me resolve this issue. I welcome any advice on how to address this matter and, if possible, reduce the fine. While I understand that I should have been more vigilant with the road tolls, the amount seems excessive, and I am hopeful that there is a way to sort this out.
Muito obrigado in advance for any assistance or suggestions you can offer. Your help is greatly appreciated!
Note: the attached letter refers to 2006, this is an error. It has been confirmed at 2021.
34 comments
There’s a company called Google that provides a website that allows you to search for lawyers in Portugal.
O teu contrato de aluger de carro não tinha direito a passagem da via verde, logo tinhas que pagar cada portagem manualmente.
Já não és o primeira vítima, as agências de aluger tinha que avisar sobre isto.
Só te resta pagar, pois isso é o valor das portagens mais as sanções do tempo.
Our government just approved a change to this law, effective from 01/07/2023 in which the maximum fine is greatly reduced from these ludicrous amounts. It seems it might cover pending processes as well. I recomend you reach out to a good portuguese lawyer.
https://expresso.pt/sociedade/2023-05-05-Parlamento-aprova-limite-as-multas-pela-falta-de-pagamento-de-portagens-dbb7fa10
Honestly I think your best choice would really be to contact a lawyer, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last suffering from this, so I assume it’s not uncommon for people to contact lawyers over this, maybe they know something.
Se estás na escocia e ainda por cima fora da EU, caga nisso, não te podem obrigar a pagar
I am so ashamed of this. Ridiculous.
A minha pergunta é: porque é que a carta está em espanhol?
Are you sure the 3,242.70 are for your 5 trips and not the sum of all the others on the list? Do you have an itemized bill?
Did you rent the car in Spain?
Terão sido isto portagens “normais? Nesse caso, tendo sido o carro alugado em Espanha, provavelmente o OP teria de ter passado nos pórticos para pagamento manual. A outra possibilidade é terem sido em SCUTs ou vias sem pórticos, sendo que nesse caso faz-me lembrar esta situação que a própria União Europeia considera ilegal:
[https://expresso.pt/economia/portagens-nas-scut-sao-ilegais=f708651](https://expresso.pt/economia/portagens-nas-scut-sao-ilegais=f708651)
Mas isto é foi algo que foi falado em 2012 e penso que Portugal tem “chutado” a situação para a frente o mais que pode , um pouco como a situação da cobrança do ISV sobre usados importados da UE que também é considerado ilegal mas continua a ser feito.
I wouldn’t bother. No way I would pay that money just for driving in a road. They haven’t lost anything and want to make over 3k from nothing .l.
You should definetely request a detailed bill because that is coming from Ascendi directly and it seems too much, even with interest.
HCM International is a debt collector, Ascendi probably sold them the original fines. Don’t pay that.
Contact Ascendi Portugal and ask them if you have any debt in your name. If they tell you no, don’t worry about it!
PS: you can search here by license plate: https://portal.ascendi.pt/en/pesquisa-por-matricula
Os politicos sempre preocupadinhos com a imagem que os turistas têm de nós, mas depois para estar empresas já facilitam artimanhas que lixam portugueses e estrangeiros. Se querem cobrar portagens, que ponham lá maquinas de pagamento, em vez de porem o estado e o utilizador a fazer o trabalho que devia ser da empresa
Pensava que os governos anteriores já tinham posto um limite a estas cobranças de portagens excessivas, aparentemente não..
Edit: Parece que aprovaram um limite agora há uns dias para entrar em vigor em julho de 2024: [https://www.msn.com/pt-pt/noticias/ultimas/parlamento-aprova-limite-%C3%A0s-multas-para-quem-n%C3%A3o-paga-portagens/ar-AA1aNzdx](https://www.msn.com/pt-pt/noticias/ultimas/parlamento-aprova-limite-%C3%A0s-multas-para-quem-n%C3%A3o-paga-portagens/ar-AA1aNzdx)
OP, podes sempre apresentar uma queixa na [Provedoria da Justiça](https://www.provedor-jus.pt/quem-somos/perguntas-frequentes/submeter-queixa/) para eles averiguarem esse abuso de multas. Mas primeiro tens que fazer queixa na Ascendi e ver se eles baixam o preço da cobrança e resolvem a situação por eles.
So, there are some things you have to take into account.
1. That value is, most likely, correct. In the sense that it follows the law. Portuguese law on road toll fines is notoriously harsh in the sense that the fines can go up to several times the value of the unpaid toll.
2. Although the value is probably correct you, most likely, will have legal recourse. The fact that you were notified for that value leads me to believe that you did not receive a prior notification, which, according to the law, is mandatory. Those kinds of values only show up after the first notification but the collection of these fines is done by companies and not by the tax authorities and it is notorious that the companies will in many cases not perform the first notification.
3. You should contact an attorney in Portugal to contest this fine, either due to lack of a prior notification or due to the inconstituionality of the fine due to being disproportionate. Unless you are going for a lawyer from a top-3 firm, the lawyer will probably charge you much less than the value of this notification. And a likely outcome, from my understanding, is that you will never hear anything again on this matter (which means that after 3 years the fine will disappear)
Não pagues nada e não respondas, neste país tudo se esquece e voa rapidamente.
Felizmente já foram tomadas medidas contra esta estupidez
https://expresso.pt/sociedade/2023-05-05-Parlamento-aprova-limite-as-multas-pela-falta-de-pagamento-de-portagens-dbb7fa10
The cost of the tolls should be really a small amount. The majority of the 3242 Eur could be the time that the highway operator (Ascendi) is charging for late payment and the car renting company and/or the credit collecting company (HCM international) fees. I would first try to obtain a detailed list of all costs. The “you have to pay this sum” sounds like a scam. Also try to contact Ascendi directly to assess what really is the amount in debt.
In my opinion, to Ascendi the debtor is the car rental company, not you. In the end the portuguese state has no problems with you. Of course the car rental company could sue you and you’ll have problems going to the car rental company’s country, this case being Spain. But you can always dispute the sum, which seems really disproportionate. It’s not your fault that the rental company took all this time to notify you. Usually it only takes a few weeks to be notified by the highway operator. If the car rental company had any problem with the credit card they should have notified you in reasonable time. Obviously this is not legal advice, just my opinion.
You probably passed in the “pórticos ex-SCUT”. These used to be free highways that our socialist government decided to start charging money by cheaply putting some cameras on them, without any means to pay on site (tolls) and forcing tourists to go trough this complicated system where you use a pre-paid electronic id device that you put on the windshield.
I don’t know if this will help but three days ago a proposition bill has passed that limits the sum that can be charged for not paying the tolls. It’s min. 25 Eur / max. 50 Eur for the same car in the same month on the same road. The law will only take effect in July 2024 but a transitional rule is foreseen that determines that to administrative offense proceedings and to enforcement proceedings pending on the date of entry into force the regime that, appears to be more favorable to the defendant applies.
I wouldnt pay that amout for sure, until i know its the last option to do
Best option should take some legal advice from a lawyer or someone who really know things like this.
3000 because of the time? What a joke
espera 7 anos que isso prescreve
Nao pagues
A ajuda que posso dar é paga e não bufa
This is what you do: come back to the country and rent a car. Stay for as long as you can. Drive through as many SCUTs as possible – like humanly possible – and rank up the debt to as close as 1 million as you can.
Go back home, change property on everything you own and wait.
When the fines show up in the mail, you will have a millionaire debt , which is how you get away without paying. Worked every time for a lot of politicians, bankers and corrupt businesses men here in Portugal.
Just tell them “well, no bank in the world is lending me that kind of money so I can’t pay. I have nothing”.
In 5 years time it will prescribe and you are free and now eligible to candidate for a job as country’s president or mayor in some town hall.
Resolver é fácil, só trabalhar 5 meses sem gastar nada e pagar isso
3k for a 2 year gap. I wouldn’t come back to portugal op. Let them burn, this country is a joke and sadly I live on it.
Não pagues, e não voltes a Portugal.Não se vai passar nada,
First of all don’t pay anything before you talk to a lawyer. A scottish one. Whatever happens if they want to enforce anything it will have to be under Scottish law. I’m skeptical of whatever that HCM international can do but whatever it is it will have to be done in Scotland.
There are documented cases of people in Portugal taking their own lifes because of fines like this. 2/3€ of original debt turned into 20/30/40 thousand euros without people knowing.
There is a new law (passed this year) saying that the fines can not exceed 3x the amount in debt.
I’m ashamed of my country for putting in this situation.
Check if this debt has been sold of to international debt collectors. If it was, try to understand if there are actually any legal implications of you don’t pay (maybe search online or ask a lawyer friend).
My advice would be to not pay a cent to these fuckers if the repercussions are little to none. But for sure don’t pay the full fine.
Also, make sure you send a letter to then saying you will never visit Portugal again and you will spend your money elsewhere. Those 3k included.
Brother , just shit on their heads …. portugal is a corrupt country… do you think its fair 3k ? Its a joke
Primeiro, deve ver se a carta foi registada. Se nao foi registada significa que nao foi notificado oficialmente. Segundo, a dívida tributária da coima pela passagem indevida no sistema de pagamento electrónico de portagens “Via Verde” prescreve no prazo de dois anos.
Just mad, disgusting, etc, I don’t even know what to say.
You clearly got the worse of Portugal and Spain in one go, compounded. Portugal’s Ascendi is fucking you over, the Spanish rental company is fucking you over, and the Spanish debt collector is fucking you over, every single one of them adding predatory fees to the pie.
This is frankly illegal, and the EC has said so itself almost a decade ago, but between de jure and de facto there’s quite a distance. Then there’s also the fact that a law was recently approved to limit situations such as this one but I’m not aware of its current status. But I see it’s already been mentioned in this thread.
Anyway, start by asking the detailed bill as already advised, and maybe double check with a Scottish lawyer to see how can this be even enforced in Scotland – hardly a chance it’ll ever be but better safe than sorry.
In the meantime try to resolve the matter “amicably” with the debt collector via the detailed bill to try and see whether you can actually get it closer to the actual cost you should have paid for the tolls.
As empresas de aluguer avisam, mas a grande maioria das pessoas já vem com um não preparado para tudo que é proposto, inclusive para a via verde. É explicado que existem diferenças, principalmente as scuts, que não são pagas no ato mas mais tarde. Ainda assim, a resposta é “NÃO”. Há flyers em várias línguas dedicados apenas às portagens que estão disponíveis, há comunicações nas secretarias. Resposta do turista para ativação da via verde no contrato: “não”.
Depois admiram-se das multas.