Is there any way you could copy and paste the article in the comments?
Meat of the article here:
“First, it’s very hard to make the case that the nurses are uniquely badly paid. Like all public servants, there is [a large salary range](https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/hr-circulars/final-1-march-2023-salary-scales.pdf), from about €33,000 for graduates up to about €138,000 for a hospital group director of nursing and midwifery. . But allowances, overtime, special payments, etc, bring the real salary up considerably. Averages are tricky, but publicly available HSE data suggest the all-grades average (including allowances, overtime, etc) pay for a nurse is about €63,000-€65,000.
Second, while there are undoubtedly localised shortages, the claims of a recruitment crisis seem generally overdone. On net figures, over 6,200 nurses have been added to the public system since before Covid. There are 85,000 nurses and midwives on the register, with 45,000 whole-time equivalents working in the public sector. Moreover, we are not under-nursed – at least, not according to the OECD, which says Ireland, at 14.7 nurses per 1,000 of population, has the highest ratio in the EU.
Third, nurses get a pretty good press. And fair enough, they deserve it. But the Government is going to be overwhelmed with demands from all sorts of groups – many deserving, some not so much – in the coming months as the powerful special interests which are so much a part of our politics vie with each other for the biggest possible slice of the biggest pie any Irish minister for finance has had at his disposal.
>If the Government is going to make sensible and prudent decisions in the long-term interest of the country – and not just give in to the loudest voices, or the best media campaigns – their multifarious claims will have to be subjected to an unsentimental interrogation. This general principle is by no means confined to the nurses. But uncomfortable as it may be, that’s not a bad place to start.”
Work as a nurse lads and all i can say is its hell, covid was worse than you can imagine it felt like a movie at times. Im going in tomorow and i might have 10-12 patients on me own. Its depressing to think the irish times would publish an article like this
[deleted]
The pay should be a lot better but from working in a hospital it’s the hours, lack of support, clueless and pointless upper management, poor hiring practices, a joke of a computer system, a shambles of the Harrington road agreement, and a load of other shite.
33 starting for a 35 hour week isn’t terrible but that’s not what happens, half them do 60+, barely have time for a life, have too many patients to be responsible for, half the time missing a clerk so have to do the admin as well, and are usually the last to be told about changes from day to day things, like who’s coming in or not to big ones like when they’re moving to James. And are still expected to grim and bare it.
Then getting way more wack job patients and parents since covid isn’t helping
That stat about having the highest number of nurses in the EU is very interesting.
I’ve worked at a few hospitals and the distribution of work for nurses is REALLY uneven.
The ED might have 6 nurses for 80 patients, a ward might have 6 for 20….
but some nurses do purely administrative jobs (and honestly a lot of them are pointless) in the very same hospital.
And the peripheral hospitals – there is NOTHING done there. Particularly, in the outpatient department there were literally more nurses than patients and they had nothing to do at all.
The funny thing is that the ones in the outpatient department think they were just as busy and hard working as the ones in the ED and the wards – and they simply weren’t. They really may as well have not been there.
And to address another elephant in the room, in the outpatient department it was predominantly Irish nurses while foreign immigrant nurses bear the brunt of the work in the ED and on the wards.
What they should really be asking is how to compensate some nurses adequately, by redistributing within the group first or better allocating work.
7 comments
Is there any way you could copy and paste the article in the comments?
Meat of the article here:
“First, it’s very hard to make the case that the nurses are uniquely badly paid. Like all public servants, there is [a large salary range](https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/hr-circulars/final-1-march-2023-salary-scales.pdf), from about €33,000 for graduates up to about €138,000 for a hospital group director of nursing and midwifery. . But allowances, overtime, special payments, etc, bring the real salary up considerably. Averages are tricky, but publicly available HSE data suggest the all-grades average (including allowances, overtime, etc) pay for a nurse is about €63,000-€65,000.
*[* [*Provision of Dublin allowance for teachers and nurses would be ‘very, very challenging’, Tánaiste says*](https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/2023/04/17/tanaiste-says-provision-of-dublin-allowance-for-teachers-and-nurses-would-be-very-very-challenging/) *]*
Second, while there are undoubtedly localised shortages, the claims of a recruitment crisis seem generally overdone. On net figures, over 6,200 nurses have been added to the public system since before Covid. There are 85,000 nurses and midwives on the register, with 45,000 whole-time equivalents working in the public sector. Moreover, we are not under-nursed – at least, not according to the OECD, which says Ireland, at 14.7 nurses per 1,000 of population, has the highest ratio in the EU.
Third, nurses get a pretty good press. And fair enough, they deserve it. But the Government is going to be overwhelmed with demands from all sorts of groups – many deserving, some not so much – in the coming months as the powerful special interests which are so much a part of our politics vie with each other for the biggest possible slice of the biggest pie any Irish minister for finance has had at his disposal.
>If the Government is going to make sensible and prudent decisions in the long-term interest of the country – and not just give in to the loudest voices, or the best media campaigns – their multifarious claims will have to be subjected to an unsentimental interrogation. This general principle is by no means confined to the nurses. But uncomfortable as it may be, that’s not a bad place to start.”
Work as a nurse lads and all i can say is its hell, covid was worse than you can imagine it felt like a movie at times. Im going in tomorow and i might have 10-12 patients on me own. Its depressing to think the irish times would publish an article like this
[deleted]
The pay should be a lot better but from working in a hospital it’s the hours, lack of support, clueless and pointless upper management, poor hiring practices, a joke of a computer system, a shambles of the Harrington road agreement, and a load of other shite.
33 starting for a 35 hour week isn’t terrible but that’s not what happens, half them do 60+, barely have time for a life, have too many patients to be responsible for, half the time missing a clerk so have to do the admin as well, and are usually the last to be told about changes from day to day things, like who’s coming in or not to big ones like when they’re moving to James. And are still expected to grim and bare it.
Then getting way more wack job patients and parents since covid isn’t helping
That stat about having the highest number of nurses in the EU is very interesting.
I’ve worked at a few hospitals and the distribution of work for nurses is REALLY uneven.
The ED might have 6 nurses for 80 patients, a ward might have 6 for 20….
but some nurses do purely administrative jobs (and honestly a lot of them are pointless) in the very same hospital.
And the peripheral hospitals – there is NOTHING done there. Particularly, in the outpatient department there were literally more nurses than patients and they had nothing to do at all.
The funny thing is that the ones in the outpatient department think they were just as busy and hard working as the ones in the ED and the wards – and they simply weren’t. They really may as well have not been there.
And to address another elephant in the room, in the outpatient department it was predominantly Irish nurses while foreign immigrant nurses bear the brunt of the work in the ED and on the wards.
What they should really be asking is how to compensate some nurses adequately, by redistributing within the group first or better allocating work.
What a spectacular load of waffle.