Provided the apprenticeships were targeted to opening up the BMA to a less advantaged set of students
If it doesn’t come with radical plan to increase wages it’s not going to work. 5 year apprenticeship at less than min wage followed by qualification as junior doctor earning £14/h isn’t exactly dream career for our brightest in society when they can do 2 year apprenticeship in IT and 3 years later work as Senior Developer bringing home 40 or 50k instead of less than 30k as junior doctors
How will we differentiate a real doctor from the pretend ones?
the great ‘just throw bodies at it’ in action again.
Must be because of other nations now hiring British doctors.
Reaching back into history for the solution : there are currently a glut of barbers on the high streets who can be trained as surgeons.
This is really an end-run around the Government’s refusal to fund more university medical degrees because they don’t want to fund the necessary medical practice placements that medical students need during and after their degree to become actual doctors. There’s lots of demand for people to do medical degrees, greatly exceeding supply of degree places.
Since these aren’t “medical degrees” numbers aren’t limited by the Government.
I mean. I hate to be negative, but I can anticipate a few issues with this…
They’re all being poached by other countries who pay them properly.
Not possible for so many reasons and does not solve our problems at all.
Maybe you could just pay us properly? 🦀
But it still comes down to money the government doesn’t like giving to vital services.
I think this is perhaps one of the single most dangerous in medicine decision ever made.
Not only is there not enough medics to train the normal rout into medicine thus further exasperating the issue. I think sending someone that has not got the background science to look at issues beyond the “normal” will produce people that do not have the ability to look past set protocol.
This smells more like a reason to pay someone less and give them a locked in lesser education.
What in the actual? No. Just no. Why not? Because a doctor should be able to train and learn all the fundamentals in a calm and professional environment, not some elderly care ward, rushed off of their feet, sleep deprived and exhausted, 30 seconds from making a catastrophic error and causing patient harm.
Can you imagine some 18 year old school leaver with a basic knowledge of first aid being thrust onto a ward without any experience, only to have their mentor disappear for hours because they are simultaneously trying to treat patients, deal with other people problems and look after an apprentice all while being on call for emergency admissions and covering the work from people on sick leave?
Everything will be in the details and the funding.
It’s not impossible to make this a success though. Hospitals already do a lot of teaching, there are close partnerships with universities to deliver existing medical degrees.
If this new route was “medical degrees with more practical experience” instead of “jobs with a bit of teaching” (and funded appropriately) then they’d be a good idea.
None of this is necessary, we just need to have more university places for doctors. We have so many A* students that aren’t allowed to study medicine, because there simply isn’t enough university places for them. We get something like 20-30k of A* students applying every year, but we only let around 7500 through, as mandated via government caps.
The whole system is being rigged so that the tories can dismantle the NHS.
15 comments
Seems like a good idea to me
Provided the apprenticeships were targeted to opening up the BMA to a less advantaged set of students
If it doesn’t come with radical plan to increase wages it’s not going to work. 5 year apprenticeship at less than min wage followed by qualification as junior doctor earning £14/h isn’t exactly dream career for our brightest in society when they can do 2 year apprenticeship in IT and 3 years later work as Senior Developer bringing home 40 or 50k instead of less than 30k as junior doctors
How will we differentiate a real doctor from the pretend ones?
the great ‘just throw bodies at it’ in action again.
Must be because of other nations now hiring British doctors.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/07/doctors-nurses-abandon-nhs-better-pay-lifestyle-overseas/
Reaching back into history for the solution : there are currently a glut of barbers on the high streets who can be trained as surgeons.
This is really an end-run around the Government’s refusal to fund more university medical degrees because they don’t want to fund the necessary medical practice placements that medical students need during and after their degree to become actual doctors. There’s lots of demand for people to do medical degrees, greatly exceeding supply of degree places.
Since these aren’t “medical degrees” numbers aren’t limited by the Government.
I mean. I hate to be negative, but I can anticipate a few issues with this…
They’re all being poached by other countries who pay them properly.
Not possible for so many reasons and does not solve our problems at all.
Maybe you could just pay us properly? 🦀
But it still comes down to money the government doesn’t like giving to vital services.
I think this is perhaps one of the single most dangerous in medicine decision ever made.
Not only is there not enough medics to train the normal rout into medicine thus further exasperating the issue. I think sending someone that has not got the background science to look at issues beyond the “normal” will produce people that do not have the ability to look past set protocol.
This smells more like a reason to pay someone less and give them a locked in lesser education.
What in the actual? No. Just no. Why not? Because a doctor should be able to train and learn all the fundamentals in a calm and professional environment, not some elderly care ward, rushed off of their feet, sleep deprived and exhausted, 30 seconds from making a catastrophic error and causing patient harm.
Can you imagine some 18 year old school leaver with a basic knowledge of first aid being thrust onto a ward without any experience, only to have their mentor disappear for hours because they are simultaneously trying to treat patients, deal with other people problems and look after an apprentice all while being on call for emergency admissions and covering the work from people on sick leave?
Everything will be in the details and the funding.
It’s not impossible to make this a success though. Hospitals already do a lot of teaching, there are close partnerships with universities to deliver existing medical degrees.
If this new route was “medical degrees with more practical experience” instead of “jobs with a bit of teaching” (and funded appropriately) then they’d be a good idea.
None of this is necessary, we just need to have more university places for doctors. We have so many A* students that aren’t allowed to study medicine, because there simply isn’t enough university places for them. We get something like 20-30k of A* students applying every year, but we only let around 7500 through, as mandated via government caps.
The whole system is being rigged so that the tories can dismantle the NHS.