I am sure this is going to be a very civil discussion where people will focus on the natural advantages that led to this ban.
From the article:
“However, others argue there is not enough detailed research in the area, that the science is not clear, and that with very few elite transgender athletes, sport should be more inclusive, with open categories criticised for being discriminatory.”
Essentially, what they’re saying is they there’s not enough detailed research to prove trans women don’t have an advantage, so until there is, women should continue to be pushed aside.
Open categories allow trans people to still compete in their sport, but without all the controversy if they win. I don’t see why they would be against this.
This was obviously going to happen after British Athletics also made the same decision, as did World Athletics.
As it should. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is surely very important and we should all argue for hours about it and the two people it affects.
Oh boy. Does anyone have popcorn? This discussion will certainly be nice and civil.
Careful agreeing with this. The mods here are against this kind of “hateful” speech and will permaban you without explanation.
All sports will have to create separate leagues and competitions for trans women/men, so they are not discriminated.
Clubs will then be required by law to have trans teams, just like they are required to have female teams.
As it should
Daaaah
Time for popcorn!
Score one for common sense.
This thread has far more comments about how uncivil the discussion is going to be, and popcorns and whatnot than any uncivil comments.
Omg, the light of common sense!
I think transwomen can thank that transwoman swimmer for this.
🔒award incoming
There should be an open event, and a female event in every physical sport
why because of the bone density argument? I don’t have a horse in this race but is it really that big of a deal?
Gender is a social construct, biology is biology. Big W for biological female athletes.
I never understood why this, out of all things, has to be the hill a lot of people in the Trans rights movement choose to die on. Even ignoring the ethical question of unfairness towards biological women, from a purely pragmatic perspective, it seems silly to try to press so hard on the one issue where pretty much everyone else is united in opposition against them.
And it’s not like this is some unique oppression towards trans people, either. It sucks, but **many** people can’t compete in their preferred sports categories because of illness or handicaps.
I really don’t mean to be an idiot about this, I don’t want to offend etc
Could anybody explain why this should be controversial? Trans women have more muscle strength, on average, then non trans women, right?
Rare common sense W
“Research studies indicate that even with the suppression of testosterone, transgender women who transition post-puberty retain a performance advantage,”
No shit Sherlock
Fair competition has to be the priority in these cases IMO, otherwise we can just get rid of male/female classes altogether (which would mean most women would never be able to win anything that depends on physical strength, because that’s just biology).
Why not make a super inclusive new trans league where teams will be only composed of trans player and whete trans spectator could watch and…. what is it you say? They will not be able to have enough players to make full teams to compete against each other? And nobody will care to go watch trans so there won’t be any money to finance their league?
Oh no, anyway.
Good
Finally
Oh no!
If I say I’m a women can I walk with my Dick out in female changing rooms?
Good.
No need to sort by controversial when everything is controversial.
Decision as is expected.
It’s the best decision really.
“I am too bad to compete with males, so I am changing to female so I can win” /s
triggered
State of the world: I read “British Cyborg to ban trans women …” and wasn’t puzzled in the least.
the CCES 2022 report (titled Transgender Women Athletes and Elite Sport: A Scientific Review), which looked at peer reviewed articles and reputable academic journal articles on this topic, found:
– theres no one biomarker that allows for easy comparison of performance
– shortcomings in current academic research, such as using non athlete trans women in studies, and not adjusting data for height and weight factors
-^ theres little attention given to the fact that distribution of testosterone levels between elite cis men and cis women athletes overlaps
– no support for the argument that testosterone exposure and biomedical factors due to male puberty lead to athletic advantages
– evidence that trans women undergoing HRT, suppressing testosterone levels, have no clear biological advantages over cis women
-^ LMB and CSA persists after 12 months but then decreases in trans women, but compared to a cis woman with similar size and height, theres no evidence that the better LMB and CSA translates to actual performance advantage
and the cyclist mentioned in the article has undergone studies which show that her reduced testosterone levels drop levels of haemoglobin etc to female levels in 5 months
because the article doesnt point to the actual studies that show the advantages of trans women athletes, would someone be able to point me to find the sources for those claims about performance advantage? genuinely wanting to read the evidence for arguments against including trans women in cis women sport
would it not be fair to include trans women in cis womens sports if they had biomarkers similar to cis woman (biomarkers being things like lung capacity)? what if a trans woman was to undergo hormone blockers at a younger age, suppressing male puberty, are they still to be banned?
also my heart goes out to trans women in the uk atm, there is a lot of hatred here against trans people, especially pushed by the media (including the bbc). theres 0 reason for people to be hateful towards trans people
Should absolutely be the case, because quite obviously men are generally physically more capable than women when it comes to cycling and any sport.
I have met zero even (including transgender people) disagree with this and no one is really arguing otherwise. This events are heavily publicized by the media and drown out actual issues for what is completely irrelevant to most.
The people spreading this news mostly are usually socially conservative media sites trying to straw man transgender right activists by taking an extreme side that few people support and pretending this is what it will lead to while they themselves take an extreme side (banning gender transitioning) as normal/centrist.
Poggers
Would prefer in a perfect world that trans woman could compete, but sadly
it’s just not fair
We will have to wait 7 more hours until the mods will close the comments. Let the usual suspects spill their bile first!
As a Brit, thank god.
They should, clearly, just go by birth weight for weight classifications.
41 comments
I am sure this is going to be a very civil discussion where people will focus on the natural advantages that led to this ban.
From the article:
“However, others argue there is not enough detailed research in the area, that the science is not clear, and that with very few elite transgender athletes, sport should be more inclusive, with open categories criticised for being discriminatory.”
Essentially, what they’re saying is they there’s not enough detailed research to prove trans women don’t have an advantage, so until there is, women should continue to be pushed aside.
Open categories allow trans people to still compete in their sport, but without all the controversy if they win. I don’t see why they would be against this.
This was obviously going to happen after British Athletics also made the same decision, as did World Athletics.
As it should. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is surely very important and we should all argue for hours about it and the two people it affects.
Oh boy. Does anyone have popcorn? This discussion will certainly be nice and civil.
Careful agreeing with this. The mods here are against this kind of “hateful” speech and will permaban you without explanation.
All sports will have to create separate leagues and competitions for trans women/men, so they are not discriminated.
Clubs will then be required by law to have trans teams, just like they are required to have female teams.
As it should
Daaaah
Time for popcorn!
Score one for common sense.
This thread has far more comments about how uncivil the discussion is going to be, and popcorns and whatnot than any uncivil comments.
Omg, the light of common sense!
I think transwomen can thank that transwoman swimmer for this.
🔒award incoming
There should be an open event, and a female event in every physical sport
why because of the bone density argument? I don’t have a horse in this race but is it really that big of a deal?
Gender is a social construct, biology is biology. Big W for biological female athletes.
I never understood why this, out of all things, has to be the hill a lot of people in the Trans rights movement choose to die on. Even ignoring the ethical question of unfairness towards biological women, from a purely pragmatic perspective, it seems silly to try to press so hard on the one issue where pretty much everyone else is united in opposition against them.
And it’s not like this is some unique oppression towards trans people, either. It sucks, but **many** people can’t compete in their preferred sports categories because of illness or handicaps.
I really don’t mean to be an idiot about this, I don’t want to offend etc
Could anybody explain why this should be controversial? Trans women have more muscle strength, on average, then non trans women, right?
Rare common sense W
“Research studies indicate that even with the suppression of testosterone, transgender women who transition post-puberty retain a performance advantage,”
No shit Sherlock
Fair competition has to be the priority in these cases IMO, otherwise we can just get rid of male/female classes altogether (which would mean most women would never be able to win anything that depends on physical strength, because that’s just biology).
Why not make a super inclusive new trans league where teams will be only composed of trans player and whete trans spectator could watch and…. what is it you say? They will not be able to have enough players to make full teams to compete against each other? And nobody will care to go watch trans so there won’t be any money to finance their league?
Oh no, anyway.
Good
Finally
Oh no!
If I say I’m a women can I walk with my Dick out in female changing rooms?
Good.
No need to sort by controversial when everything is controversial.
Decision as is expected.
It’s the best decision really.
“I am too bad to compete with males, so I am changing to female so I can win” /s
triggered
State of the world: I read “British Cyborg to ban trans women …” and wasn’t puzzled in the least.
the CCES 2022 report (titled Transgender Women Athletes and Elite Sport: A Scientific Review), which looked at peer reviewed articles and reputable academic journal articles on this topic, found:
– theres no one biomarker that allows for easy comparison of performance
– shortcomings in current academic research, such as using non athlete trans women in studies, and not adjusting data for height and weight factors
-^ theres little attention given to the fact that distribution of testosterone levels between elite cis men and cis women athletes overlaps
– no support for the argument that testosterone exposure and biomedical factors due to male puberty lead to athletic advantages
– evidence that trans women undergoing HRT, suppressing testosterone levels, have no clear biological advantages over cis women
-^ LMB and CSA persists after 12 months but then decreases in trans women, but compared to a cis woman with similar size and height, theres no evidence that the better LMB and CSA translates to actual performance advantage
and the cyclist mentioned in the article has undergone studies which show that her reduced testosterone levels drop levels of haemoglobin etc to female levels in 5 months
because the article doesnt point to the actual studies that show the advantages of trans women athletes, would someone be able to point me to find the sources for those claims about performance advantage? genuinely wanting to read the evidence for arguments against including trans women in cis women sport
would it not be fair to include trans women in cis womens sports if they had biomarkers similar to cis woman (biomarkers being things like lung capacity)? what if a trans woman was to undergo hormone blockers at a younger age, suppressing male puberty, are they still to be banned?
also my heart goes out to trans women in the uk atm, there is a lot of hatred here against trans people, especially pushed by the media (including the bbc). theres 0 reason for people to be hateful towards trans people
Should absolutely be the case, because quite obviously men are generally physically more capable than women when it comes to cycling and any sport.
I have met zero even (including transgender people) disagree with this and no one is really arguing otherwise. This events are heavily publicized by the media and drown out actual issues for what is completely irrelevant to most.
The people spreading this news mostly are usually socially conservative media sites trying to straw man transgender right activists by taking an extreme side that few people support and pretending this is what it will lead to while they themselves take an extreme side (banning gender transitioning) as normal/centrist.
Poggers
Would prefer in a perfect world that trans woman could compete, but sadly
it’s just not fair
We will have to wait 7 more hours until the mods will close the comments. Let the usual suspects spill their bile first!
As a Brit, thank god.
They should, clearly, just go by birth weight for weight classifications.