Unless it’s about the old IRA in which case they are the good IRA and you’re not allowed to sing anything about the provos , who are the bad IRA. It’s purely being used as a stick to beat the shinners with. I thought this was a good article. People will sing rebel songs , people will sing loyalist songs and that will never change, and why should it? It’s a way of remembering the history of their culture. Refusing to sing them/or calling them out is pure political tokenism done for purely political gains that no one cares about. The best way to view the past is with honesty , be honest about why violence was inevitable, be honest about the killing of innocents , be honest about collusion, be honest about disappearing people…
“A stock response to talk of a united Ireland is to speak of the need to respect the culture of unionist communities in the North being, as they are, part of our shared history. Some would do well to remember, too, the need to respect the culture of the people who faced decades of state repression, discrimination and violence. Their music may not necessarily meet the standards of politeness of some commentators, but they are hard won, and will not be surrendered.”
Preach it.
The Pearl Clutching about Rebels Songs reveals a really pathetic immaturity. It shows that the process of infantilisation driven by the Colonial Centre is ever present in Modern Ireland ™.
Also really captures the frustration of a Sunday
For those who are in love
There’s a song that’s warm and tender
For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest
So liberate your minds
And give your soul expression
Open up your hearts
I’ll sing for you this song
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
It was back in ancient times
The bard would tell his stories
Of the heroes, of the villain
Of the chieftains in the glen
Through Elizabethian times
And Cromwellian war and fury
Put our pipers to the sword
Killed our harpers and our bards
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
Ireland, land of song
Your music lives forever
In its valleys, in its mountains
In its hills and in its glens
Our music did survive
Through famine and oppression
To the generations gone
I’ll sing for you this song
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of
My take is that the only real reason to take issue with “rebel music” is to try and be reasonable with the Unionists. But the Unionists are absolutely arseholes who will throw any attempt at meeting them half way back in your face. So uh, fuck em.
Looks like someone asked chatgpt to write an article to stir a bit of shit with the online readership.
Just because there’s outrage doesn’t mean we’re prohibited from enjoying “rebel songs”. They’re not all lumped in together. I’m free to like the Wolfe Tones or refer to them as Wolfe Tone Deaf.
If I want to sing songs about how great Loyalism / Republicanism / Veganism is I’m free to do that.
Personally I never liked The Wolfe Tones. They glorified violent people and the banjo sounded like ass but that’s just me.
The response to the Irish women’s soccer team singing Celtic Symphony and what happened at Leinster tells you all you need to know how people actually feel about all this.
It’s a bullshit talking point that’s used by failing politicians and their supporters to try and attack their opponents.
It is also a great way to learn about our past and the context in which things happened from certain sides. It also opens you up to more history. For example, I thought ‘Sean South of Garryowen’ was a decent tune. Then I looked it up and read about Sean South and found out what an utter cunt he was and so stopped playing/listening to the song. Through one rebel song I was opened up to a part of Irish rebellion that I wasn’t too aware of.
And funny enough for people that are only complaining about the Provos on this thread, Sean South was part of the old IRA or the ‘good’ IRA.
I love how that Irish people only shine light on Ira killing civilians.
The uvf, psni and the British state have no blood on there hands at all?
Rising of the moon is a banger and I’ll fight any man that says otherwise
A song about Michael Collins’s death-squad would be fine?
“They said I was ruthless, daring, savage, blood thirsty, even heartless. The clergy called me and my comrades murderers; but the British were met with their own weapons. They had gone in the mire to destroy us and our nation and down after them we had to go.”
– Tom Barry
We shouldn’t let a group of miserable unionists make us question a part of our culture and history. These songs help us understand the perspective and struggles of our ancestors. If it upsets the unionists it’s because they can’t come to terms with the horrors there ideology did to us and don’t want it to be known.
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail will stand in honour at the 1916 commemoration, and yet attack those Irish who fought back against the same British state iniquity and violence in the occupied zone.
I wish they’d just fuck off to Britain.
Here’s the uncomfortable reality for some: Ireland and the Irish people don’t need permission from either England or Unionists to reflect on or indeed celebrate Ireland’s history. The IRA existed. The PIRA existed. They didn’t exist in a vacuum. The people who get up in arms about rebel music know that and that is why they put on such a performance.
If they are offended then people will potentially stop singing or listening to rebel music. In turn, people will not look into the background of the music and will therefore be ignorant of the history around it. That then allows them to dictate the narrative that from 1969-1998 it was simply Taigs bad Us good.
That is why you have people genuinely believing that the history of the North was peaceful until those uppity Fenians started killing people. They’re ignorant of the pogroms against Catholics. They think sectarianism was like it is now and not a state mandated endeavour.
If rebel music offends you then don’t go out of your way to hear it. It is that easy. If you don’t like republicanism then tell someone who cares, I can assure you you will find someone to bond with over that.
If you want to play atrocity bingo well then be ready because that can go on for a long, long time. And let me tell you, the Irish would have a *long* way to go to catch up to Britain on that one.
The only reason this is “news” is becaue having pride in your culture and history is constrewed as being alt right and anti immigration. Either the idiots are running the shoe or this is just cringe controversy bait. Guess it worked
An oversight not to mention [Martin Brennan](https://youtu.be/lEjEGbAFzJU), the reason Come Out Ye Black and Tans got its widest airing in popular culture in decades and even made it to number one in the charts.
Also an oversight not to mention others who made their version of rebel songs, whether Stiff Little Fingers or Paul Brady.
Shame the writer wasn’t given more words to do a more in-depth article.
Rebel music wouldn’t be a part of Irish culture if rebels never existed. The people complaining about and calling for the banning of this music are the same people that are the reason the music came to exist in the first place.
It didn’t just spring out of nowhere. Humans simply can not be culturless. People like to joke about Americans having no culture but they do.
We had culture, and it was banned. We didn’t want to adopt our enemy’s culture so naturally, our own culture shifted and adapted until rebel songs essentially became an important part of our culture. So what, now we ban our culture again?
If anything rebel songs are the most authentic form of Irish culture because every other aspect of our culture besides drink is a parody of what it once was as a consequence of it being under attack for so long and much of it has essentially been forgotten. It’s like we’re having an identity crisis. Almost every bit of “authentic” Irish culture we still have has had to be revived through much effort and organisation, and anything that hasn’t been revived is now long dead.
Rebel music has emerged out of every single conflict regardless of culture and then solidified its place within that culture. The French national anthem is basically a war song, the Haka and other Polynesian dance/songs of this fashion are displays of warriors. Balkan countries have their songs each basically dissing their neighbours. It’s not exclusive to Ireland, we just have recency bias as well as a cultural void that needed to be filled.
Rebel songs are an important part of our history and culture, anyone who tries to police that is a pearl-clutching twat.
It’s one of the primary ways that humans have used to remember the past. Folks songs are usually pretty important to a culture.
I’m taking my Dad to see The Wolfe Tones at the end of the summer. You can immerse yourself in culture and remember history without endorsing violence. I’ll have a good time with my Dad and Brother and then we’ll go home.
I’m Mexican American so I have no ties to Ireland but oh boy do I love the Wolfe Tones. Joe McDonnell gets me every time.
I always find it strange that Irish rebel music is very rarely written in Irish. There’s a few (Óró sé do bheatha bhaile, Mo ghile mear etc), but they’re pretty uncommon. Many people would argue that rebel ballads have a very long history but most of the famous ones were composed (or put to paper) in the 19th century when Anglicisation was well under way. And when you look at modern European nationalist movements the vast majority of them wrote in their ancestral language, to prove a cultural point and maybe so they wouldn’t be easily understood by their occupiers.
Were there many older tunes that faded from memory as people switched to English? Or was it just more effective to pen them in English (so it could be understood by the Brits themselves as well as English speaking Irish people)?
This won’t be popular here but I feel there’s a difference in context and quality between the nuanced, pre-1960s rebel ‘come all yes’ folk tradition like ‘The Patriot Game”, and the MOR Wolfe Tone shite that rides on its predecessor’s coat-tails, and is some sort of SF propaganda. It simplifies the Troubles and gives those that don’t remember it a false understanding of all sides. It’s popular when people are drunk for its simplicity, but also for its imagined sense of antiquity and age old authenticness, when it’s mostly from the late 70s and 80s, not a time when violent republican sympathies ran high.
Edit: turns out both songs I’d been comparing were written around the same time (~1958) and same writer, Dominic Behan. “Behan had been involved with the IRA before writing the song but he did not support the continuing violent campaign of the IRA at the time, and altered the first verse from his initial lyrics to distance himself from nationalism.[[4]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_Game#cite_note-4)”
We should stop singing rebel songs to avoid hurting loyalist feelings. Meanwhile, loyalists are singing:
“Fuck the pope” – tune stolen from Tina Turner’s “Simply the best”
“The famine song” – tune stolen from a Bee Gees song
“Everybody hates roman catholics” – tune stolen from “I think we’re alone now”
I was going to write “etc.” but then I realized that’s it, that’s the entire loyalist songbook. Such a rich, ancient, creative tradition – we should respect it!
These songs are about Ireland’s history. Don’t let anyone try to cancel them.
I love the foggy dew
Is this the latest weekly AI-generated article from the Irish times?
As an Irish-American,I was raised on Irish rebel music by my mother. Favorites in my family are Óró Sé do Bhetha ‘Bhaile, The Outlawed Raparee, Kelly, The Boy From Killanne, Roddy McCorley, and The Foggy Dew. I know the lyrics to all of these and more.
I think I’ve learned more about “recent” Irish history looking up the historical context of these songs.
Serious question: Would it be considered rude to sing along with these or others while on vacation in Ireland? Putting aside the fact I love to sing but can’t.
Being someone from a younger generation who lives in the north, I think Irish rebel songs were an important part of keeping our sense of Irish identity alive during the days of unionist domination and oppression.
The cold hard truth is simple, I would not have the same opportunities and chances for a better life if the IRA did not take up arms to defend my community when we had nobody else.
29 comments
Unless it’s about the old IRA in which case they are the good IRA and you’re not allowed to sing anything about the provos , who are the bad IRA. It’s purely being used as a stick to beat the shinners with. I thought this was a good article. People will sing rebel songs , people will sing loyalist songs and that will never change, and why should it? It’s a way of remembering the history of their culture. Refusing to sing them/or calling them out is pure political tokenism done for purely political gains that no one cares about. The best way to view the past is with honesty , be honest about why violence was inevitable, be honest about the killing of innocents , be honest about collusion, be honest about disappearing people…
“A stock response to talk of a united Ireland is to speak of the need to respect the culture of unionist communities in the North being, as they are, part of our shared history. Some would do well to remember, too, the need to respect the culture of the people who faced decades of state repression, discrimination and violence. Their music may not necessarily meet the standards of politeness of some commentators, but they are hard won, and will not be surrendered.”
Preach it.
The Pearl Clutching about Rebels Songs reveals a really pathetic immaturity. It shows that the process of infantilisation driven by the Colonial Centre is ever present in Modern Ireland ™.
Also really captures the frustration of a Sunday
For those who are in love
There’s a song that’s warm and tender
For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest
So liberate your minds
And give your soul expression
Open up your hearts
I’ll sing for you this song
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
It was back in ancient times
The bard would tell his stories
Of the heroes, of the villain
Of the chieftains in the glen
Through Elizabethian times
And Cromwellian war and fury
Put our pipers to the sword
Killed our harpers and our bards
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
Ireland, land of song
Your music lives forever
In its valleys, in its mountains
In its hills and in its glens
Our music did survive
Through famine and oppression
To the generations gone
I’ll sing for you this song
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of
My take is that the only real reason to take issue with “rebel music” is to try and be reasonable with the Unionists. But the Unionists are absolutely arseholes who will throw any attempt at meeting them half way back in your face. So uh, fuck em.
Looks like someone asked chatgpt to write an article to stir a bit of shit with the online readership.
Just because there’s outrage doesn’t mean we’re prohibited from enjoying “rebel songs”. They’re not all lumped in together. I’m free to like the Wolfe Tones or refer to them as Wolfe Tone Deaf.
If I want to sing songs about how great Loyalism / Republicanism / Veganism is I’m free to do that.
Personally I never liked The Wolfe Tones. They glorified violent people and the banjo sounded like ass but that’s just me.
The response to the Irish women’s soccer team singing Celtic Symphony and what happened at Leinster tells you all you need to know how people actually feel about all this.
It’s a bullshit talking point that’s used by failing politicians and their supporters to try and attack their opponents.
It is also a great way to learn about our past and the context in which things happened from certain sides. It also opens you up to more history. For example, I thought ‘Sean South of Garryowen’ was a decent tune. Then I looked it up and read about Sean South and found out what an utter cunt he was and so stopped playing/listening to the song. Through one rebel song I was opened up to a part of Irish rebellion that I wasn’t too aware of.
And funny enough for people that are only complaining about the Provos on this thread, Sean South was part of the old IRA or the ‘good’ IRA.
I love how that Irish people only shine light on Ira killing civilians.
The uvf, psni and the British state have no blood on there hands at all?
Rising of the moon is a banger and I’ll fight any man that says otherwise
A song about Michael Collins’s death-squad would be fine?
“They said I was ruthless, daring, savage, blood thirsty, even heartless. The clergy called me and my comrades murderers; but the British were met with their own weapons. They had gone in the mire to destroy us and our nation and down after them we had to go.”
– Tom Barry
We shouldn’t let a group of miserable unionists make us question a part of our culture and history. These songs help us understand the perspective and struggles of our ancestors. If it upsets the unionists it’s because they can’t come to terms with the horrors there ideology did to us and don’t want it to be known.
Fine Gael and Fianna Fail will stand in honour at the 1916 commemoration, and yet attack those Irish who fought back against the same British state iniquity and violence in the occupied zone.
I wish they’d just fuck off to Britain.
Here’s the uncomfortable reality for some: Ireland and the Irish people don’t need permission from either England or Unionists to reflect on or indeed celebrate Ireland’s history. The IRA existed. The PIRA existed. They didn’t exist in a vacuum. The people who get up in arms about rebel music know that and that is why they put on such a performance.
If they are offended then people will potentially stop singing or listening to rebel music. In turn, people will not look into the background of the music and will therefore be ignorant of the history around it. That then allows them to dictate the narrative that from 1969-1998 it was simply Taigs bad Us good.
That is why you have people genuinely believing that the history of the North was peaceful until those uppity Fenians started killing people. They’re ignorant of the pogroms against Catholics. They think sectarianism was like it is now and not a state mandated endeavour.
If rebel music offends you then don’t go out of your way to hear it. It is that easy. If you don’t like republicanism then tell someone who cares, I can assure you you will find someone to bond with over that.
If you want to play atrocity bingo well then be ready because that can go on for a long, long time. And let me tell you, the Irish would have a *long* way to go to catch up to Britain on that one.
The only reason this is “news” is becaue having pride in your culture and history is constrewed as being alt right and anti immigration. Either the idiots are running the shoe or this is just cringe controversy bait. Guess it worked
An oversight not to mention [Martin Brennan](https://youtu.be/lEjEGbAFzJU), the reason Come Out Ye Black and Tans got its widest airing in popular culture in decades and even made it to number one in the charts.
Also an oversight not to mention others who made their version of rebel songs, whether Stiff Little Fingers or Paul Brady.
Shame the writer wasn’t given more words to do a more in-depth article.
Rebel music wouldn’t be a part of Irish culture if rebels never existed. The people complaining about and calling for the banning of this music are the same people that are the reason the music came to exist in the first place.
It didn’t just spring out of nowhere. Humans simply can not be culturless. People like to joke about Americans having no culture but they do.
We had culture, and it was banned. We didn’t want to adopt our enemy’s culture so naturally, our own culture shifted and adapted until rebel songs essentially became an important part of our culture. So what, now we ban our culture again?
If anything rebel songs are the most authentic form of Irish culture because every other aspect of our culture besides drink is a parody of what it once was as a consequence of it being under attack for so long and much of it has essentially been forgotten. It’s like we’re having an identity crisis. Almost every bit of “authentic” Irish culture we still have has had to be revived through much effort and organisation, and anything that hasn’t been revived is now long dead.
Rebel music has emerged out of every single conflict regardless of culture and then solidified its place within that culture. The French national anthem is basically a war song, the Haka and other Polynesian dance/songs of this fashion are displays of warriors. Balkan countries have their songs each basically dissing their neighbours. It’s not exclusive to Ireland, we just have recency bias as well as a cultural void that needed to be filled.
Rebel songs are an important part of our history and culture, anyone who tries to police that is a pearl-clutching twat.
It’s one of the primary ways that humans have used to remember the past. Folks songs are usually pretty important to a culture.
I’m taking my Dad to see The Wolfe Tones at the end of the summer. You can immerse yourself in culture and remember history without endorsing violence. I’ll have a good time with my Dad and Brother and then we’ll go home.
I’m Mexican American so I have no ties to Ireland but oh boy do I love the Wolfe Tones. Joe McDonnell gets me every time.
I always find it strange that Irish rebel music is very rarely written in Irish. There’s a few (Óró sé do bheatha bhaile, Mo ghile mear etc), but they’re pretty uncommon. Many people would argue that rebel ballads have a very long history but most of the famous ones were composed (or put to paper) in the 19th century when Anglicisation was well under way. And when you look at modern European nationalist movements the vast majority of them wrote in their ancestral language, to prove a cultural point and maybe so they wouldn’t be easily understood by their occupiers.
Were there many older tunes that faded from memory as people switched to English? Or was it just more effective to pen them in English (so it could be understood by the Brits themselves as well as English speaking Irish people)?
This won’t be popular here but I feel there’s a difference in context and quality between the nuanced, pre-1960s rebel ‘come all yes’ folk tradition like ‘The Patriot Game”, and the MOR Wolfe Tone shite that rides on its predecessor’s coat-tails, and is some sort of SF propaganda. It simplifies the Troubles and gives those that don’t remember it a false understanding of all sides. It’s popular when people are drunk for its simplicity, but also for its imagined sense of antiquity and age old authenticness, when it’s mostly from the late 70s and 80s, not a time when violent republican sympathies ran high.
Edit: turns out both songs I’d been comparing were written around the same time (~1958) and same writer, Dominic Behan. “Behan had been involved with the IRA before writing the song but he did not support the continuing violent campaign of the IRA at the time, and altered the first verse from his initial lyrics to distance himself from nationalism.[[4]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_Game#cite_note-4)”
We should stop singing rebel songs to avoid hurting loyalist feelings. Meanwhile, loyalists are singing:
“Fuck the pope” – tune stolen from Tina Turner’s “Simply the best”
“The famine song” – tune stolen from a Bee Gees song
“Everybody hates roman catholics” – tune stolen from “I think we’re alone now”
I was going to write “etc.” but then I realized that’s it, that’s the entire loyalist songbook. Such a rich, ancient, creative tradition – we should respect it!
These songs are about Ireland’s history. Don’t let anyone try to cancel them.
I love the foggy dew
Is this the latest weekly AI-generated article from the Irish times?
As an Irish-American,I was raised on Irish rebel music by my mother. Favorites in my family are Óró Sé do Bhetha ‘Bhaile, The Outlawed Raparee, Kelly, The Boy From Killanne, Roddy McCorley, and The Foggy Dew. I know the lyrics to all of these and more.
I think I’ve learned more about “recent” Irish history looking up the historical context of these songs.
Serious question: Would it be considered rude to sing along with these or others while on vacation in Ireland? Putting aside the fact I love to sing but can’t.
Being someone from a younger generation who lives in the north, I think Irish rebel songs were an important part of keeping our sense of Irish identity alive during the days of unionist domination and oppression.
The cold hard truth is simple, I would not have the same opportunities and chances for a better life if the IRA did not take up arms to defend my community when we had nobody else.