If you don’t face existential threat right at your border like Finland or the Baltic countries, then compulsory military service is a terrible waste of government money, and human resources.
Isn’t going to do shit, if the budget doesn’t take this into account.
Many European countries face a looming demographic crisis or are already struggling with a lack of qualified workers in many fields.
So what do we do? We keep young people from entering the work force for an additional year to train some sort of militia even though there is no enemy to be seen – now or in the future – that our professional militaries couldn’t deal with on their own (in the frame work of European defence and NATO).
Military service makes sense for countries like Ukraine, Israel, South Korea, Taiwan, maybe even Finland. It does not make sense for Germany, the Netherlands, France, Portugal, Norway etc.
I certainly hope not. Our armed forces are too ill-equipped and we haven’t got the infrastructure to train a bunch of uninterested teenagers who wouldn’t pick a job in the armed forces in the first place.
Nope.
Ive said it before, if this is done, it needs to be done with a proper plan and correctly. Dont do the russian way, sitting around for x amount of time doing nothing and bored out of your mind. Teach the skills necesarry, if you have time left, use it to teach additional skills that can be used outside of military (like driving a truck or heavy machinery, fixing electronics, etc).
It has never left.
Seeing the comments, it’s really weird that some people is not used to standard conscription.
No
Who said slavery?
Why would anyone fight for governments who actively betray us at every turn. Lol.
Hopefully not. Involuntary servitude is a heavy breach of human rights. How the fuck does a democratic government of some countries have the right to essentially imprison innocent people into labor camps with terrible conditions for them for a ridiculously low wage is something I’ll never understand. It’s also a huge waste of resources. Fuck mandatory military service.
I don’t mind it, if also woman get forced into it
Welcome to the club!
No.
It’s an idea that mainly right wing politicians float around. Its to boost about manliness and to create national pride and to be able to say ‘the others don’t love their country enough’
It’s plain stupid. Didn’t work in the past, won’t work in the future
It depends on the geographic location and legal constraints. In many countries you plainly cannot use conscripts for anything outside your country’s borders and an active state of war, possibly even only in homeland defense.
We have this discussion in Germany as well, but what Germany needs is an army that deploys 500-1000km from home to defend an ally’s home territory. Which is alot different than in the Cold War where West Germany was a frontline country and in general the existential threat of war was alot higher, even with Russia’s war now.
I do not see that in any way being constitutional to force upon conscripts, at least not without major changes.
In a similar vein in the last years of conscription the instituion was in major violation of the constitution because they barely recruited 25% of eligible males each year which made it more an unfair lottery which unlucky sod gets conscripted and which stupid person does civil service instead when you could wiggle your way out of it easily with some medical reports.
Add the question of adding women to the mix and it becomes a big constituional quagmire where the security benefit might not be even there as again, the army needs to deploy away from home so cannot use most of these people and probably does not want to.
As a Finn, I find this post funny.
Let me guess… Feminist also want equility in these draws …
No military will invest anything into a bunch of youn adults that are counting days until the compulsory service is over.
What you’ll get is young people wasting 8-12 months at the prime time of their life by washing barracks and sitting around on guard duty while making little money.
Plus, you’ll have to retrain those people in the case of a conflict anyway since most people will forget the little that they have learned, if it was even useful in the first place.
Not the netherlands
No
Aka slavery. Can we, at least, name things what they are instead of using euphemisms?
We could have a string EU Army without the need of compulsory military service but no, fucked up nationalist prefer to give weapons to people who don’t want any weapons.
If a headline is a question, the answer is “no.” If the answer were yes, the headline would be a declarative statement.
I don’t know about other European countries but it would never be able to happen in the UK for one it would be probably be extraordinarily unpopular and more then half the population probably doesn’t even have the fitness levels or intelligence to be of any use to the military.
>France is currently debating a “light” form of compulsory military service
Nah, it’s not really true. I mean… it has NOTHING to do with military service.
It’s at best a holiday camp, at worst an internship to learn about institutions. But nothing close to a “light” form of compulsory military service.
Frankly, it’s obvious that they didn’t want to introduce a new military service (it would have been too controversial) so they made a frankenstein thing for children.
As a result, it’s useless. It’s an abysmal expense for a result… well, we don’t know the result yet, but the feedback is catastrophic.
If we have to spend money, let’s go all the way and bring back real military service.
At least let it serve a purpose.
I don’t think it is or that it can.
I mean, you can’t decry the idea of “duty” as backward constraints to personal, individual affirmation and any form of attachment to nation as a toxic obstacle in the way of a multi cultural global village and then expect people to perform military service – which contains the idea of duty to the nation.
And the deconstructionist craze didn’t only deconstruct the ideas of nation and duty, but of pretty much everything that happens in these countries.
A lot of young people see almost everything in their countries as unjust, they perceive themselves as poor etc.
Why would they give up a year of their life for any of it, not to mention their lives all together in case of a war ?
In case of a war, I very much doubt they would have the stamina of Ukrainians, for instance.
No, the best way to protect European countries is technology – invest in it like crazy, as long as you still have people educated with high standards – because as far as I know, deconstruction has reached the standards of education too, including in the sciences – which are supposed to become more comfy and inclusive.
High tech armies with limited personnel is the only option – and a very good one, as long as tech superiority can be maintained.
truth of the matter is quite simple……if you are a small country with small population, and you are facing a possibility of Russian army invasion, you don’t have a choice other than having compulsory military service for your citizens in order to fill up the ranks of your military for national defense.
Volunteer based militaries can only fulfil their purpose for national defense if you also have big population to get recruits from (countries like USA with 300 million people in it) , because very few people statistically ever want to volunteer to join the military on their own free will. People just dont want to do it, choosing army life is NOT a popular thing, never has been, young people dont want it, those who do are exceptions not the norm. And if your nation faces real existential threat of war, those few select exceptional volunteers are not enough , you need more people and there is no way to get more other than mandatory service.
You can check out what happened to European armies that canceled their Cold war era military conscription and in what kind of state they are now…..Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark. Their armies are fucking weak and shadows of their former Cold war era pasts, they lack people in all fields and all branches they cannot crew all the weapons systems they would even hypothetical need to defend their countries in a real invasion type scenario. That is direct consequence of abandoning compulsory military service. Its a ugly truth that most people would rather ignore
It’s not so simple and I think it is highly probable that it will be a logistical nightmare for most of nations who have small but fully equipped armed forces to quickly transform, especially those that don’t have very strong economies. I have served 12 months in the Special Forces and the training was good, but in other branches the conscripts are basically useless, they don’t undergo any military training due to shortages and either just sit around all day or they are used in doing shitty jobs that like cleaning and maintaining mimitary facilities.
No one wants to fight the battles created by and exacted by egomaniac power trippers
Some kind of national guard or volunteers are preferable than compulsory military service I still remember some of the horrors that came with compulsory service in my country and the remains of the old regime, and the tatty state of the army in those years. Professionalism purged most of that shit out of all the branches, and turned it in a better institution.
If it’s coming back, I hope it’s at least compulsory for women too. Having a dick cost me a year of my life. Compulsory service never went away in Switzerland.
Since it isn’t convenient to do military service – people will find a way to say “no”
Coming back?
I’m Finnish and since I made my way thru conscription with honors and was interested in patriotic defense (?) I’m stuck with my officer badges für ewig.
Lost interest years ago and I let the younglings boast and kill themselves.
But with my badges and knowledge; if the kids screw things, I’ll be called.
Fcuk I hate (masculine) boasting. I love beer and pussy.
Forcing modern people to do things they don’t wanna do and giving them guns in hands in the same time won’t work out well.
I went as a volunteer and our military made me hate every second of it as well as leave before the oath.
If someone tried to force me into this bs I’d shoot my leader as soon as I get a gun.
36 comments
If you don’t face existential threat right at your border like Finland or the Baltic countries, then compulsory military service is a terrible waste of government money, and human resources.
Isn’t going to do shit, if the budget doesn’t take this into account.
Many European countries face a looming demographic crisis or are already struggling with a lack of qualified workers in many fields.
So what do we do? We keep young people from entering the work force for an additional year to train some sort of militia even though there is no enemy to be seen – now or in the future – that our professional militaries couldn’t deal with on their own (in the frame work of European defence and NATO).
Military service makes sense for countries like Ukraine, Israel, South Korea, Taiwan, maybe even Finland. It does not make sense for Germany, the Netherlands, France, Portugal, Norway etc.
I certainly hope not. Our armed forces are too ill-equipped and we haven’t got the infrastructure to train a bunch of uninterested teenagers who wouldn’t pick a job in the armed forces in the first place.
Nope.
Ive said it before, if this is done, it needs to be done with a proper plan and correctly. Dont do the russian way, sitting around for x amount of time doing nothing and bored out of your mind. Teach the skills necesarry, if you have time left, use it to teach additional skills that can be used outside of military (like driving a truck or heavy machinery, fixing electronics, etc).
It has never left.
Seeing the comments, it’s really weird that some people is not used to standard conscription.
No
Who said slavery?
Why would anyone fight for governments who actively betray us at every turn. Lol.
Hopefully not. Involuntary servitude is a heavy breach of human rights. How the fuck does a democratic government of some countries have the right to essentially imprison innocent people into labor camps with terrible conditions for them for a ridiculously low wage is something I’ll never understand. It’s also a huge waste of resources. Fuck mandatory military service.
I don’t mind it, if also woman get forced into it
Welcome to the club!
No.
It’s an idea that mainly right wing politicians float around. Its to boost about manliness and to create national pride and to be able to say ‘the others don’t love their country enough’
It’s plain stupid. Didn’t work in the past, won’t work in the future
It depends on the geographic location and legal constraints. In many countries you plainly cannot use conscripts for anything outside your country’s borders and an active state of war, possibly even only in homeland defense.
We have this discussion in Germany as well, but what Germany needs is an army that deploys 500-1000km from home to defend an ally’s home territory. Which is alot different than in the Cold War where West Germany was a frontline country and in general the existential threat of war was alot higher, even with Russia’s war now.
I do not see that in any way being constitutional to force upon conscripts, at least not without major changes.
In a similar vein in the last years of conscription the instituion was in major violation of the constitution because they barely recruited 25% of eligible males each year which made it more an unfair lottery which unlucky sod gets conscripted and which stupid person does civil service instead when you could wiggle your way out of it easily with some medical reports.
Add the question of adding women to the mix and it becomes a big constituional quagmire where the security benefit might not be even there as again, the army needs to deploy away from home so cannot use most of these people and probably does not want to.
As a Finn, I find this post funny.
Let me guess… Feminist also want equility in these draws …
No military will invest anything into a bunch of youn adults that are counting days until the compulsory service is over.
What you’ll get is young people wasting 8-12 months at the prime time of their life by washing barracks and sitting around on guard duty while making little money.
Plus, you’ll have to retrain those people in the case of a conflict anyway since most people will forget the little that they have learned, if it was even useful in the first place.
Not the netherlands
No
Aka slavery. Can we, at least, name things what they are instead of using euphemisms?
We could have a string EU Army without the need of compulsory military service but no, fucked up nationalist prefer to give weapons to people who don’t want any weapons.
If a headline is a question, the answer is “no.” If the answer were yes, the headline would be a declarative statement.
I don’t know about other European countries but it would never be able to happen in the UK for one it would be probably be extraordinarily unpopular and more then half the population probably doesn’t even have the fitness levels or intelligence to be of any use to the military.
>France is currently debating a “light” form of compulsory military service
Nah, it’s not really true. I mean… it has NOTHING to do with military service.
It’s at best a holiday camp, at worst an internship to learn about institutions. But nothing close to a “light” form of compulsory military service.
Frankly, it’s obvious that they didn’t want to introduce a new military service (it would have been too controversial) so they made a frankenstein thing for children.
As a result, it’s useless. It’s an abysmal expense for a result… well, we don’t know the result yet, but the feedback is catastrophic.
If we have to spend money, let’s go all the way and bring back real military service.
At least let it serve a purpose.
I don’t think it is or that it can.
I mean, you can’t decry the idea of “duty” as backward constraints to personal, individual affirmation and any form of attachment to nation as a toxic obstacle in the way of a multi cultural global village and then expect people to perform military service – which contains the idea of duty to the nation.
And the deconstructionist craze didn’t only deconstruct the ideas of nation and duty, but of pretty much everything that happens in these countries.
A lot of young people see almost everything in their countries as unjust, they perceive themselves as poor etc.
Why would they give up a year of their life for any of it, not to mention their lives all together in case of a war ?
In case of a war, I very much doubt they would have the stamina of Ukrainians, for instance.
No, the best way to protect European countries is technology – invest in it like crazy, as long as you still have people educated with high standards – because as far as I know, deconstruction has reached the standards of education too, including in the sciences – which are supposed to become more comfy and inclusive.
High tech armies with limited personnel is the only option – and a very good one, as long as tech superiority can be maintained.
truth of the matter is quite simple……if you are a small country with small population, and you are facing a possibility of Russian army invasion, you don’t have a choice other than having compulsory military service for your citizens in order to fill up the ranks of your military for national defense.
Volunteer based militaries can only fulfil their purpose for national defense if you also have big population to get recruits from (countries like USA with 300 million people in it) , because very few people statistically ever want to volunteer to join the military on their own free will. People just dont want to do it, choosing army life is NOT a popular thing, never has been, young people dont want it, those who do are exceptions not the norm. And if your nation faces real existential threat of war, those few select exceptional volunteers are not enough , you need more people and there is no way to get more other than mandatory service.
You can check out what happened to European armies that canceled their Cold war era military conscription and in what kind of state they are now…..Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark. Their armies are fucking weak and shadows of their former Cold war era pasts, they lack people in all fields and all branches they cannot crew all the weapons systems they would even hypothetical need to defend their countries in a real invasion type scenario. That is direct consequence of abandoning compulsory military service. Its a ugly truth that most people would rather ignore
It’s not so simple and I think it is highly probable that it will be a logistical nightmare for most of nations who have small but fully equipped armed forces to quickly transform, especially those that don’t have very strong economies. I have served 12 months in the Special Forces and the training was good, but in other branches the conscripts are basically useless, they don’t undergo any military training due to shortages and either just sit around all day or they are used in doing shitty jobs that like cleaning and maintaining mimitary facilities.
No one wants to fight the battles created by and exacted by egomaniac power trippers
Some kind of national guard or volunteers are preferable than compulsory military service I still remember some of the horrors that came with compulsory service in my country and the remains of the old regime, and the tatty state of the army in those years. Professionalism purged most of that shit out of all the branches, and turned it in a better institution.
If it’s coming back, I hope it’s at least compulsory for women too. Having a dick cost me a year of my life. Compulsory service never went away in Switzerland.
Since it isn’t convenient to do military service – people will find a way to say “no”
Coming back?
I’m Finnish and since I made my way thru conscription with honors and was interested in patriotic defense (?) I’m stuck with my officer badges für ewig.
Lost interest years ago and I let the younglings boast and kill themselves.
But with my badges and knowledge; if the kids screw things, I’ll be called.
Fcuk I hate (masculine) boasting. I love beer and pussy.
Forcing modern people to do things they don’t wanna do and giving them guns in hands in the same time won’t work out well.
I went as a volunteer and our military made me hate every second of it as well as leave before the oath.
If someone tried to force me into this bs I’d shoot my leader as soon as I get a gun.
Well it never left for us in Estonia