If the three corporations that pay most of the corporation tax haul divert profits from Ireland, we would have an indefinite budget deficit requiring cuts to public sector pay, this would cause even more of an exodus.
Deja vu.
This is eerily similar to the early 2000’s when we were warned that giveaway budgets would worsen inflation and cause the overheating of the economy.
But politicians prioritised getting reelected over the future of the country.
Everything in life works better when using a long term view, but politics operates on 4 year return intervals which results in short term decisions being made consistently.
Oh ye? Have they finally learnt?
Contingency planning is really just basics of everything. Just because it works well now doesn’t mean it will work in future. Why not make something “bigger” than what it needs to be now to take inevitable increase in population into account?
Not just fiscal planning but that is the first stage, there is so much long term planning that is just not done by state bodies. Urban planning (I bring it up a lot), class sizes for schools even. This is bigger issue than the politicians I think but they need to drive the change.
Long term is a difficult thing for governments (any government, anywhere) to deal with. They want to implement policies that have an impact over the next few years so their successes are seen by the electorate for the next election. Strategic planning for the next decade or two is what’s needed though, in almost every level.
Ireland really needs to “START” long term planning. We’re fucking shite at it. A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit, sure, but our fuckers rarely start a plan longer than the election cycle they’re working through. You see countries with these massive monuments or massive building projects, and literally nothing of that scale here. Ever.
Only 40% of adults pay income tax. I’d love to know what percentage of that is large multi nationals. Seems like a ticking time bomb.
*Income tax makes up 42% of the Government’s tax revenue and is paid by less than 40% of the adult population2.*
Well daw. You don’t need a watchdog to figure that out
Needs a 100-year plan for major infrastructure.
Government: “Gotcha! Austerity it is then”
If it can’t be solved or done overnight, the government’s modus operandi generally is to not bother at all, hence why I don’t have much hope that the government will take the advice to start having some long term planning
[deleted]
Yuuuuuuppp!
Putting band aids and paving over issues to get to the next election cycle we need to think what do we want out towns and cities to look like in 50years and fuckin plan ffs 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️😭
**Ireland 🇮🇪 by 2030 – Vision for Our Island by Tom**
*Mission Statement*
Ireland, the whole of the island, should be a beacon of truth, justice and fairness. We can be a progressive social democracy, a model for other nations. Equal rights for all, equitable opportunities for all.
👥 Put people first
Implement fair pay agreements (FPAs). FPAs are essentially collective agreements struck not between a union and a single employer, but a union and every employer in an industry. Employers cannot walk away from this bargaining completely, as if they do the Employment Relations Authority can simply impose terms on all employers in the sector. Workers lose their ability to strike while negotiating such an agreement. The idea is not that every employee in the country will suddenly be covered by an FPA, but that a floor for pay and conditions can be set in poorly paid industries with low union membership, particularly those where contracting and subcontracting make working out who actually employs who a nightmare – think security guards and cleaners.
🏠Improve access to “own your own home”
Attract more lenders for consumers. (Hmmm … repossession must be easier). Build more medium density housing in Dublin. Governments at the local level have started responding by “up-zoning” single-family areas, like in Berlin, Germany, in order to allow the construction of up to several units per lot. Immigration policies have an effect on housing production as the construction industry heavily relies on immigrant workers. Consequently, looser immigration policies can reduce housing costs by lowering developing costs and abating labour shortages. Financial incentives are required to stimulate both the supply and demand sides: low-interest loans and tax abatements are effective tools. Not only can they buy down the overall capital costs on new housing projects and renovation, but they can also assist with conversions of obsolete offices and hotels into residential. Cities worldwide continue to turn prominent streets to pedestrian-only. The plan for Paris’ Champs Elysées will increase foot traffic in key urban arteries. This unlocks the potential for highly valuable commercial space. Loosening banking regulations to allow smaller down payments can ease this burden on buyers and help ensure homeownership is more attainable for the middle class.
Result: end the dissipation of our youth chia emigration while addressing the housing crisis.
Fix the broken planning process — Get rid of zoning so we get more in-fill building in population centers. Stop letting any old crank file a petition that stops development in its track. Build public transport, incentivise sustainable development (such as home sewage treatment plants, micro solar/wind and fuel cell power generation). Stop letting farmers plough over 3,000 year old ruins.
How can we use proper governance as a way out of this situation? We cannot govern our way out of the housing crisis. We need to ungovern – STOP GOVERNING SO MUCH. Stop trying to dictate these things and allow the people whose job it is to build housing for a living to fix the issue. California is a perfect example to show you that the state is no less vulnerable to nimbys who want to impose their will. They can impose it through the local, state, or national government. There is no governing solution. The solution is to stop governing it. Admit that the democracy does not deserve a say. Democracy has no place telling you or I when to go to bed. Democracy has no place determining whether there are enough beds either.
Tokyo’s affordable housing can be attributed to the Japanese New City Planning Law that was enacted on a national level in 1968. This law created 12 standardized land-use zones that covers all of Japan where apartments, restaurants and schools can be built in all but two zones. These laws have made it almost impossible for local groups to stop construction within the legal limits of the designated zone.
The US and most of Europe is ruled by Euclidean zoning, which divides each land to a specific use and is decided on a local level. This have given rise to NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard) movements, that can effectively stop all further development in their community in favor of their property prises rising. The difference in zoning laws between Japan and the US have led to a massive housing crunch in US cities while Tokyo’s newly built housing market is thriving. America’s largest city, New York started construction on just under 30,000 new housing units in 2020 while Tokyo started constructing 130,000 units.
🌳🌲Protect our natural beauty. Re-forest. Buy Up Land for Parks
Pay farmers to plant native trees instead of having cows.
Buy up land to make three more national parks. Protect our offshore environment and fisheries. Boost tourism by making Ireland an outdoors destination— hiking, cycling, fishing. Coillte have control of a massive 440,000 hectares, or 7% of the land in this country, yet all they seem to do is plant vast amounts of monotonous conifer forests that do nothing for ecology or biodiversity. Bord Na Mona controls another massive 80,000 hectares.
Increase earth monitor sciences … data collection stations.
Push for maximum solar panel/PVs on houses, farms, businesses by guaranteeing a sell-to-grid price that is always €0.10 more than the buy-from-grid price. Increase offshore and other wind power generation. More electrics such as lorries and EVs. Public charging points.
🚭Eliminate widespread use of in-home stoves
Tackles indoor air pollutants by effectively giving away heat pumps, PV, etc. Retrofit insulation. Boost home building and home improvement by moving to a building-code based model, away from a local planning one.
Result: move towards carbon neutral goals
The team will involve police partnering with youth justice workers to patrol streets and engage with young people where they congregate. Also: intensive bail supervision and increased funding to a community-based crime action committee. (Australia) …acting early was crucial to divert children from the youth justice system. The evidence clearly shows you that if you can intervene early with wraparound services, if you can put those programs in place that you will actually have some of that success.
🎓Educate to Elevate
Guarantee higher education … and encourage it. Keep our young, smart people here. Restructure basic curriculum to teach civics, environmental protection (stop littering), moral duty to each other, and other subjects in the primary years. Promote teachers, health care and public service personnel as the most honorable and well-paid roles in our society.
⛺️Tackle homelessness
Using the Finland model – give everyone a home, no strings. Finland is the only European Union country where homelessness is currently falling. The country has adopted a Housing First policy, whereby social services assign homeless individuals rental homes first, and issues like mental health and substance abuse are treated second.
💶Exchequer
Attract high tech and high level manufacturers. Tax corporations but give them something in exchange: favorable financial environment and a motivated, educated workforce. Restructure to increase the opportunities for global trade and finance to be centered in Dublin (and, eventually, Belfast?).
Result: the engine to finance this evolution. The power of the purse.
Degrowth: https://www.ft.com/content/b1a505ac-c36f-4b4d-9ab0-6f5d9d0e185d
🚌Public transport for All
Increase capital spending on infrastructure for rail, bus, cycling.
Free or “almost free” travel passes.
👩🏻⚕️🩺Improve Health Care Delivery
More preventative health care. More specialized clinics. Rural health clinics.
👴🏽👵🏼Improve Services to the Elderly, Disabled and Abused
🕊Leverage Neutrality for Diplomacy: be the world’s mediator
⚓️✈️ Protect our shores
Ensure Defence Forces can patrol our waters and skies by updating tech (drones, littoral ships, etc).
Result: be a force for good in the world; a counter to the “aggression” policies of other nations. Not be beholden to others for our self preservation.
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Tbh, I’d be more inclined to vote for a politician who would keep tax as it is but use the surplus to invest in infrastructure such as Cork to limerick motorway etc that will have long term benefits for the economy and pay off the national debt. Giveaway budgets make me suspicious as I came out of college right as the recession hit so tend to prefer to balance the books fiscally.
Really??? I’m not irish, but it’s blatantly obvious that long-term planning isn’t an irish thing.
There’s too much of a “it’ll be grand” mentality here.
Every time I’ve needed work to be done in the house or get something fixed, it’s always done for the short term. It’s even worse in the bar that I work in. There’s just no planning and forward thinking because you know, “it’ll be grand”
I feel like the government prefer a small amount of cash now and have no long term vision, ever.
Case & point, the current government choosing to make more people homeless, importantly more children homeless. This will lead to a further drain on state resources as studies show that those children are extremely likely to end up in a life of crime, drugs and on assistance from the government, simply to make life easier for people who own property.
Any property schemes that are buying built and successful, are being sold off to foreign pension funds with none of that return being realised in Ireland.
No government can be deliberately this consistently incompetent, so I’m beginning to believe this is all by design. Which is a scary thought.
Sinn Fein will shit the bed when they get into the Dáil, but I’m still gonna vote for them this time because the current government have proven them to be incapable and incompetent. So something has to change, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different outcomes is the definition of madness. Sinn Féin are.. Sinn Féin and I won’t share my very true, but also very controversial opinions here. But it’s their time, let’s see what they can do.
19 comments
Even short to medium term.
If the three corporations that pay most of the corporation tax haul divert profits from Ireland, we would have an indefinite budget deficit requiring cuts to public sector pay, this would cause even more of an exodus.
Deja vu.
This is eerily similar to the early 2000’s when we were warned that giveaway budgets would worsen inflation and cause the overheating of the economy.
But politicians prioritised getting reelected over the future of the country.
Everything in life works better when using a long term view, but politics operates on 4 year return intervals which results in short term decisions being made consistently.
Oh ye? Have they finally learnt?
Contingency planning is really just basics of everything. Just because it works well now doesn’t mean it will work in future. Why not make something “bigger” than what it needs to be now to take inevitable increase in population into account?
Not just fiscal planning but that is the first stage, there is so much long term planning that is just not done by state bodies. Urban planning (I bring it up a lot), class sizes for schools even. This is bigger issue than the politicians I think but they need to drive the change.
Long term is a difficult thing for governments (any government, anywhere) to deal with. They want to implement policies that have an impact over the next few years so their successes are seen by the electorate for the next election. Strategic planning for the next decade or two is what’s needed though, in almost every level.
Ireland really needs to “START” long term planning. We’re fucking shite at it. A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit, sure, but our fuckers rarely start a plan longer than the election cycle they’re working through. You see countries with these massive monuments or massive building projects, and literally nothing of that scale here. Ever.
Only 40% of adults pay income tax. I’d love to know what percentage of that is large multi nationals. Seems like a ticking time bomb.
Edit: Source
[https://www.tasc.ie/assets/files/pdf/tasc_how_much_tax_do_people_pay_on_their_incomes.pdf](https://www.tasc.ie/assets/files/pdf/tasc_how_much_tax_do_people_pay_on_their_incomes.pdf)
*Income tax makes up 42% of the Government’s tax revenue and is paid by less than 40% of the adult population2.*
Well daw. You don’t need a watchdog to figure that out
Needs a 100-year plan for major infrastructure.
Government: “Gotcha! Austerity it is then”
If it can’t be solved or done overnight, the government’s modus operandi generally is to not bother at all, hence why I don’t have much hope that the government will take the advice to start having some long term planning
[deleted]
Yuuuuuuppp!
Putting band aids and paving over issues to get to the next election cycle we need to think what do we want out towns and cities to look like in 50years and fuckin plan ffs 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️😭
**Ireland 🇮🇪 by 2030 – Vision for Our Island by Tom**
*Mission Statement*
Ireland, the whole of the island, should be a beacon of truth, justice and fairness. We can be a progressive social democracy, a model for other nations. Equal rights for all, equitable opportunities for all.
👥 Put people first
Implement fair pay agreements (FPAs). FPAs are essentially collective agreements struck not between a union and a single employer, but a union and every employer in an industry. Employers cannot walk away from this bargaining completely, as if they do the Employment Relations Authority can simply impose terms on all employers in the sector. Workers lose their ability to strike while negotiating such an agreement. The idea is not that every employee in the country will suddenly be covered by an FPA, but that a floor for pay and conditions can be set in poorly paid industries with low union membership, particularly those where contracting and subcontracting make working out who actually employs who a nightmare – think security guards and cleaners.
🏠Improve access to “own your own home”
Attract more lenders for consumers. (Hmmm … repossession must be easier). Build more medium density housing in Dublin. Governments at the local level have started responding by “up-zoning” single-family areas, like in Berlin, Germany, in order to allow the construction of up to several units per lot. Immigration policies have an effect on housing production as the construction industry heavily relies on immigrant workers. Consequently, looser immigration policies can reduce housing costs by lowering developing costs and abating labour shortages. Financial incentives are required to stimulate both the supply and demand sides: low-interest loans and tax abatements are effective tools. Not only can they buy down the overall capital costs on new housing projects and renovation, but they can also assist with conversions of obsolete offices and hotels into residential. Cities worldwide continue to turn prominent streets to pedestrian-only. The plan for Paris’ Champs Elysées will increase foot traffic in key urban arteries. This unlocks the potential for highly valuable commercial space. Loosening banking regulations to allow smaller down payments can ease this burden on buyers and help ensure homeownership is more attainable for the middle class.
Result: end the dissipation of our youth chia emigration while addressing the housing crisis.
Fix the broken planning process — Get rid of zoning so we get more in-fill building in population centers. Stop letting any old crank file a petition that stops development in its track. Build public transport, incentivise sustainable development (such as home sewage treatment plants, micro solar/wind and fuel cell power generation). Stop letting farmers plough over 3,000 year old ruins.
🏘Implement radical public housing: https://youtu.be/3dBaEo4QplQ
Maybe not treat housing as an investment? https://goodreason.substack.com/p/maybe-treating-housing-as-an-investment
How can we use proper governance as a way out of this situation? We cannot govern our way out of the housing crisis. We need to ungovern – STOP GOVERNING SO MUCH. Stop trying to dictate these things and allow the people whose job it is to build housing for a living to fix the issue. California is a perfect example to show you that the state is no less vulnerable to nimbys who want to impose their will. They can impose it through the local, state, or national government. There is no governing solution. The solution is to stop governing it. Admit that the democracy does not deserve a say. Democracy has no place telling you or I when to go to bed. Democracy has no place determining whether there are enough beds either.
Tokyo’s affordable housing can be attributed to the Japanese New City Planning Law that was enacted on a national level in 1968. This law created 12 standardized land-use zones that covers all of Japan where apartments, restaurants and schools can be built in all but two zones. These laws have made it almost impossible for local groups to stop construction within the legal limits of the designated zone.
The US and most of Europe is ruled by Euclidean zoning, which divides each land to a specific use and is decided on a local level. This have given rise to NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard) movements, that can effectively stop all further development in their community in favor of their property prises rising. The difference in zoning laws between Japan and the US have led to a massive housing crunch in US cities while Tokyo’s newly built housing market is thriving. America’s largest city, New York started construction on just under 30,000 new housing units in 2020 while Tokyo started constructing 130,000 units.
🌳🌲Protect our natural beauty. Re-forest. Buy Up Land for Parks
Pay farmers to plant native trees instead of having cows.
Buy up land to make three more national parks. Protect our offshore environment and fisheries. Boost tourism by making Ireland an outdoors destination— hiking, cycling, fishing. Coillte have control of a massive 440,000 hectares, or 7% of the land in this country, yet all they seem to do is plant vast amounts of monotonous conifer forests that do nothing for ecology or biodiversity. Bord Na Mona controls another massive 80,000 hectares.
Increase earth monitor sciences … data collection stations.
Rapidly plant lots of trees: https://reasonstobecheerful.world/drone-tree-planting-reforesting-after-wildfires/
Pay for trash collection out of taxes, not individual contracts.
https://www.thesmartcityjournal.com/en/articles/smart-waste-management
💨☀️⚡️Renewables for 98% of the electric grid.
Push for maximum solar panel/PVs on houses, farms, businesses by guaranteeing a sell-to-grid price that is always €0.10 more than the buy-from-grid price. Increase offshore and other wind power generation. More electrics such as lorries and EVs. Public charging points.
🚭Eliminate widespread use of in-home stoves
Tackles indoor air pollutants by effectively giving away heat pumps, PV, etc. Retrofit insulation. Boost home building and home improvement by moving to a building-code based model, away from a local planning one.
Result: move towards carbon neutral goals
👶🏼Tackle antisocial behavior
Want to end this continuing problem? It isn’t about severe punishment — which is [not a deterrent](https://ccla.org/criminal-justice/no-longer-prison-sentences-do-not-reduce-crime/), and just [trains youths on how to be better criminals](https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/why-youth-incarceration-fails-an-updated-review-of-the-evidence/).
Instead, we could implement a policy much like Iceland did, in the 1980s, that ended their problems: https://youtu.be/cDbD_JSCrNo Using the Icelandic model — https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/01/teens-drugs-iceland/513668/
The team will involve police partnering with youth justice workers to patrol streets and engage with young people where they congregate. Also: intensive bail supervision and increased funding to a community-based crime action committee. (Australia) …acting early was crucial to divert children from the youth justice system. The evidence clearly shows you that if you can intervene early with wraparound services, if you can put those programs in place that you will actually have some of that success.
🎓Educate to Elevate
Guarantee higher education … and encourage it. Keep our young, smart people here. Restructure basic curriculum to teach civics, environmental protection (stop littering), moral duty to each other, and other subjects in the primary years. Promote teachers, health care and public service personnel as the most honorable and well-paid roles in our society.
⛺️Tackle homelessness
Using the Finland model – give everyone a home, no strings. Finland is the only European Union country where homelessness is currently falling. The country has adopted a Housing First policy, whereby social services assign homeless individuals rental homes first, and issues like mental health and substance abuse are treated second.
💶Exchequer
Attract high tech and high level manufacturers. Tax corporations but give them something in exchange: favorable financial environment and a motivated, educated workforce. Restructure to increase the opportunities for global trade and finance to be centered in Dublin (and, eventually, Belfast?).
Result: the engine to finance this evolution. The power of the purse.
Degrowth: https://www.ft.com/content/b1a505ac-c36f-4b4d-9ab0-6f5d9d0e185d
🚌Public transport for All
Increase capital spending on infrastructure for rail, bus, cycling.
Free or “almost free” travel passes.
👩🏻⚕️🩺Improve Health Care Delivery
More preventative health care. More specialized clinics. Rural health clinics.
👴🏽👵🏼Improve Services to the Elderly, Disabled and Abused
Result: Longer, happier lifespan for our people.
🏰Protect our historical assets
Archeological preservation and study. Irish immersion schools.
Result: preserve our culture.
🕊Leverage Neutrality for Diplomacy: be the world’s mediator
⚓️✈️ Protect our shores
Ensure Defence Forces can patrol our waters and skies by updating tech (drones, littoral ships, etc).
Result: be a force for good in the world; a counter to the “aggression” policies of other nations. Not be beholden to others for our self preservation.
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Plans are in place
Tbh, I’d be more inclined to vote for a politician who would keep tax as it is but use the surplus to invest in infrastructure such as Cork to limerick motorway etc that will have long term benefits for the economy and pay off the national debt. Giveaway budgets make me suspicious as I came out of college right as the recession hit so tend to prefer to balance the books fiscally.
Really??? I’m not irish, but it’s blatantly obvious that long-term planning isn’t an irish thing.
There’s too much of a “it’ll be grand” mentality here.
Every time I’ve needed work to be done in the house or get something fixed, it’s always done for the short term. It’s even worse in the bar that I work in. There’s just no planning and forward thinking because you know, “it’ll be grand”
I feel like the government prefer a small amount of cash now and have no long term vision, ever.
Case & point, the current government choosing to make more people homeless, importantly more children homeless. This will lead to a further drain on state resources as studies show that those children are extremely likely to end up in a life of crime, drugs and on assistance from the government, simply to make life easier for people who own property.
Any property schemes that are buying built and successful, are being sold off to foreign pension funds with none of that return being realised in Ireland.
No government can be deliberately this consistently incompetent, so I’m beginning to believe this is all by design. Which is a scary thought.
Sinn Fein will shit the bed when they get into the Dáil, but I’m still gonna vote for them this time because the current government have proven them to be incapable and incompetent. So something has to change, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different outcomes is the definition of madness. Sinn Féin are.. Sinn Féin and I won’t share my very true, but also very controversial opinions here. But it’s their time, let’s see what they can do.