As they should. Drag them in kicking and screaming if they have to.
Pathetic window dressing
>Most cases never make it as far as court: in 2021/22 there were 2,298 rape and attempted rapes reported to the police, but only 152 prosecutions and 78 convictions.
I won’t argue with more prison time but using any type of physical force to drag them into the sentencing hearing is a pointless exercise given they will face justice either way.
What a pointless bit of performance politics.
> The new rules will allow custody officers to use “reasonable force” to make offenders appear in the dock.
Really? So they can literally be dragged kicking and screaming in? Who does this benefit?
What next? Allowing ridiculous US style sentences of 300+ years?
i can see this being dropped quietly. its a new grabbing headline.
I know what’ll win votes, let’s put custody staff in danger by making them fight convicted murderers who have literally nothing to lose.
Great plan.
I don’t think the use of force is going to help anybody, or anything here tbh. I hate criminals as much as the next person, but it seems that for many, and certainly the most heinous, it just increases the odds of them being utter cunts directly to the family.
Hold them in contempt, have it reflect on their sentence, their parole attempts, and so on – absolutely. But, broadly, I’m not convinced this is going to help.
I do underatand why it’s happened, though and I can understand how insulting it is to the victims and their families
She got 7 life sentences, how can they give her a longer punishment?
Also it does face the disruption in court, what if she just laughed at the testimonies?
feels like another attempt at a populist/wedge issue…but Starmer will probably back it anyway
This is headline chasing nonsense from an utterly incompetent government that’s run out of ideas.
I predict this’ll cause more harm than good to grieving families.
Actually fixing the problems with our justice system takes money, hard work and ideas, so instead they use distraction tactics like these
Pointless.
An attempt by the Government to look tough on crime.
It will just give the criminals the chance to mock the families.
Pathetic. You can get 2 years for that but people get less for much worse offences.
No one benefits from this, these families are kidding themselves on. All it does is teach the family about themselves. Will they be synpathetic if the person cries and looks remorseful? Will they get angry if they don’t look sad?
There’s nothing gained from this at all. What comes next? You sat in the dock by force and looked neutral, didn’t look the family in the eye so that’s an extra 6 years?
If they’ve any sense, they’ll make it a power available to the judge to use at their discretion.
That way, there can be a balance drawn between the demands of the victims, and the risk of disruption by the defendant.
“This hand that pulled the trigger that killed your sons now masturbates to the memory. Fuck all of you.” – American school shooter, in court.
Yes, forcing people to appear may not be the win they are expecting.
How long till there’s a headline of someone being sentenced and the victims not happy at the lack of remorse expressed by them or worse they take the chance to hurl abuse at them.
Carnt believe people worried about carrying criminal to Dock to hear sentence. U do know that police chase and put handcuffs on these people u worry they will hurt there hands now ? Soft. Basic I think in justice u hear the reasons and judgment of the JUDGE. They hear the guilty/ not guilty park this is just an extention. And it also provides closure and comfort to the victims. They get to say to there faces what the crime has done to them.
Here’s my issue, it’s just part of a wider trend in this country for making knee jerk decisions based on emotion and hysteria. We are *obsessed* with moral panics. And as always, our answer is always to just be more punitive.
Jesus, Boris Johnson could choke on a walnut tomorrow and you’d have people crowing for ‘Boris’ Law’. Because this poor, innocent 59 year old boy choked on a walnut that’s YOUR problem and YOU can’t eat them anymore.
It’s not that I’m insensitive to the victims families or am ignorant as to their need for catharsis. But I’m sick of peoples hurt feelings being used to justify every goddamned thing. It’s a wider issue and we need to stop doing it.
Make it an extra 10 years, and no parole if they refuse. No need to use force.
Stupid performative politics is all the Tories scum have left
That good news for victims of rape and other sexual abuse. Having the defendant looking at the victim’s shouting “You deserved it” throughout the sentencing
Watch the u turn when some murderer with no prospect of release just takes the piss as their sentencing him/her/they/them. Populist politics.
Terrible decision that has nothing to do with jurisprudence and is just another slab of rotten red meat to throw at the ‘Hang ’em an’ flog ’em!’ crowd.
Aside from populism, I really don’t see the point of this. It is just going to make courts more chaotic, make sentencing take longer, and add extra risks for pretty much everyone. For what purpose exactly?
Next will be strait jackets and gagging.
If someone knows that they are going to get a life sentence, what stops them from shouting “LOL, I killed your kids” or similar?
What stops them from pointing and laughing?
What stops them from ANY action which can only make the families of victims feel worse?
Sure, they may get a few extra years but we all know in reality that means a few extra months. And we have no laws – yet – about behaviour in the dock (that I am aware of)
And with a Whole Life Sentence … we’ll have Dr Lecter noises from some.
This is a fantastically stupid idea.
All new legislation to be a knee-jerk populist response to a disaster or scandal in order to deflect attention away from the real culprit of systemic failure and under investment.
This is extraordinarily dumb.
First and foremost, we are putting innocent people in danger for no good reason. Dragging someone court isn’t going to be done peacefully. Worse still, you cannot make that person behave; you can’t make someone watch or listen unless you use continued force.
We could add years on to sentencing for failure to comply. However, the people who we want to be there for sentencing (like Letby, who didn’t attend) are the sorts of people that commit such strictly punished crimes that extra years will barely make a difference. Even changes to parole considerations won’t make a huge difference.
28 comments
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As they should. Drag them in kicking and screaming if they have to.
Pathetic window dressing
>Most cases never make it as far as court: in 2021/22 there were 2,298 rape and attempted rapes reported to the police, but only 152 prosecutions and 78 convictions.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66634382
I won’t argue with more prison time but using any type of physical force to drag them into the sentencing hearing is a pointless exercise given they will face justice either way.
What a pointless bit of performance politics.
> The new rules will allow custody officers to use “reasonable force” to make offenders appear in the dock.
Really? So they can literally be dragged kicking and screaming in? Who does this benefit?
What next? Allowing ridiculous US style sentences of 300+ years?
i can see this being dropped quietly. its a new grabbing headline.
I know what’ll win votes, let’s put custody staff in danger by making them fight convicted murderers who have literally nothing to lose.
Great plan.
I don’t think the use of force is going to help anybody, or anything here tbh. I hate criminals as much as the next person, but it seems that for many, and certainly the most heinous, it just increases the odds of them being utter cunts directly to the family.
Hold them in contempt, have it reflect on their sentence, their parole attempts, and so on – absolutely. But, broadly, I’m not convinced this is going to help.
I do underatand why it’s happened, though and I can understand how insulting it is to the victims and their families
She got 7 life sentences, how can they give her a longer punishment?
Also it does face the disruption in court, what if she just laughed at the testimonies?
feels like another attempt at a populist/wedge issue…but Starmer will probably back it anyway
This is headline chasing nonsense from an utterly incompetent government that’s run out of ideas.
I predict this’ll cause more harm than good to grieving families.
Actually fixing the problems with our justice system takes money, hard work and ideas, so instead they use distraction tactics like these
Pointless.
An attempt by the Government to look tough on crime.
It will just give the criminals the chance to mock the families.
Pathetic. You can get 2 years for that but people get less for much worse offences.
No one benefits from this, these families are kidding themselves on. All it does is teach the family about themselves. Will they be synpathetic if the person cries and looks remorseful? Will they get angry if they don’t look sad?
There’s nothing gained from this at all. What comes next? You sat in the dock by force and looked neutral, didn’t look the family in the eye so that’s an extra 6 years?
If they’ve any sense, they’ll make it a power available to the judge to use at their discretion.
That way, there can be a balance drawn between the demands of the victims, and the risk of disruption by the defendant.
“This hand that pulled the trigger that killed your sons now masturbates to the memory. Fuck all of you.” – American school shooter, in court.
Yes, forcing people to appear may not be the win they are expecting.
How long till there’s a headline of someone being sentenced and the victims not happy at the lack of remorse expressed by them or worse they take the chance to hurl abuse at them.
Carnt believe people worried about carrying criminal to Dock to hear sentence. U do know that police chase and put handcuffs on these people u worry they will hurt there hands now ? Soft. Basic I think in justice u hear the reasons and judgment of the JUDGE. They hear the guilty/ not guilty park this is just an extention. And it also provides closure and comfort to the victims. They get to say to there faces what the crime has done to them.
Here’s my issue, it’s just part of a wider trend in this country for making knee jerk decisions based on emotion and hysteria. We are *obsessed* with moral panics. And as always, our answer is always to just be more punitive.
Jesus, Boris Johnson could choke on a walnut tomorrow and you’d have people crowing for ‘Boris’ Law’. Because this poor, innocent 59 year old boy choked on a walnut that’s YOUR problem and YOU can’t eat them anymore.
It’s not that I’m insensitive to the victims families or am ignorant as to their need for catharsis. But I’m sick of peoples hurt feelings being used to justify every goddamned thing. It’s a wider issue and we need to stop doing it.
Make it an extra 10 years, and no parole if they refuse. No need to use force.
Stupid performative politics is all the Tories scum have left
That good news for victims of rape and other sexual abuse. Having the defendant looking at the victim’s shouting “You deserved it” throughout the sentencing
Watch the u turn when some murderer with no prospect of release just takes the piss as their sentencing him/her/they/them. Populist politics.
Terrible decision that has nothing to do with jurisprudence and is just another slab of rotten red meat to throw at the ‘Hang ’em an’ flog ’em!’ crowd.
Aside from populism, I really don’t see the point of this. It is just going to make courts more chaotic, make sentencing take longer, and add extra risks for pretty much everyone. For what purpose exactly?
Next will be strait jackets and gagging.
If someone knows that they are going to get a life sentence, what stops them from shouting “LOL, I killed your kids” or similar?
What stops them from pointing and laughing?
What stops them from ANY action which can only make the families of victims feel worse?
Sure, they may get a few extra years but we all know in reality that means a few extra months. And we have no laws – yet – about behaviour in the dock (that I am aware of)
And with a Whole Life Sentence … we’ll have Dr Lecter noises from some.
This is a fantastically stupid idea.
All new legislation to be a knee-jerk populist response to a disaster or scandal in order to deflect attention away from the real culprit of systemic failure and under investment.
This is extraordinarily dumb.
First and foremost, we are putting innocent people in danger for no good reason. Dragging someone court isn’t going to be done peacefully. Worse still, you cannot make that person behave; you can’t make someone watch or listen unless you use continued force.
We could add years on to sentencing for failure to comply. However, the people who we want to be there for sentencing (like Letby, who didn’t attend) are the sorts of people that commit such strictly punished crimes that extra years will barely make a difference. Even changes to parole considerations won’t make a huge difference.
This is theatre and piss poor policy.