What Hamas did was terrible but we all know Israel has been itching for this for years. When a country’s former AG and intelligence chief call a place an apartheid I’m inclined to agree.
>“We are deeply concerned about the order to evacuate over a million civilians out of northern Gaza and the devastating humanitarian consequences that would ensue,” wrote the House members. “As both the European Union High Representative for Foreign Affairs and the United Nations Commission on Human Rights said, imposing a complete siege on Gaza and depriving 2.3 million Palestinian civilians who have nowhere else to go — half of whom are children — of food, water, and electricity, would be a violation of international humanitarian law.”
…
>In the letter, which was first obtained by POLITICO, CPC Chair Rep. Pramila Jayapal and others make five primary requests of the president.
>The lawmakers said Biden should help reestablish the delivery of food, water and electricity to Gaza, discourage hate crimes against both Jews and Muslims in the U.S., and guarantee any supplemental funding requests made of Congress include humanitarian aid for Palestinians and Israelis. In addition, they ask Biden to make the case that Israel follows international law and instruct the U.S. to work with partners in the region to set up a humanitarian corridor allowing Palestinian civilians to leave Gaza.
>The lawmakers also condemn the Hamas’ attack and offer their agreement with Biden that Israel has the right to defend itself. But, they said, that response must be cognizant of Palestinian civilians in Gaza “who themselves are victims of Hamas.”
>In order to prevent hate crimes against Jewish and Muslim Americans, the lawmakers urged Biden to communicate “to the American people that Hamas is not the Palestinian people and the Palestinian people are not Hamas.”
[removed]
The progressive caucus is generally stupid about almost everything, but this letter captures the essence of this tragedy much better than the utter nonsense that has been spewed by attention-seeking progressive Twitter personalities.
Civilians didn’t choose *this*, all Palestinians are not Hamas, civilians should have safe passage and food, water, healthcare, Hamas is bad and Israel has every right to go after Hamas.
Any attempt by anyone to try to blame Israel for what happened over the weekend will make them look foolish and will not win hearts and minds. I’m glad this group didn’t fall for the *very online* trap.
Amazing how some folks here are ready to justify the potential war crimes that Israel may commit. Yes, Hamas has committed war crimes. However, wouldn’t doing the same thing back in retaliation simply make Israel as horrible? Civilian lives, whether Israeli or Gazans, are civilian lives. They must always be protected. That’s why we have rules of war.
It’s fine that the US is helping Israel, but if they cross the line and commit war crimes, I don’t want my tax dollars to be part of it.
Its ethnic cleansing and collective punishment.
Israel has a right to defend itself.
The people in gaza are already refugees since 1948. Now they are told to leave. Where are they supposed to go?
What sympathy Israel had this week will evaporate by this day next week.
Joe is making all the right moves as usual. Too bad he doesn’t get credit from republicans.
This is going to be a massacre. The 2000+ injured in the hospital and doctors attending them can’t leave.
This has gone on for 70 years. There are no easy answers or else this would have been solved decades ago.
I think Israel and Palestine are stuck in a cycle of hate and violence and each violent act by one side amplifies the support of the most extreme voices on the other side. Which isn’t to say they are equivalent, I think Hamas is the most deplorable of any group involved. But that doesn’t get us to a solution.
I don’t think Israel and Palestine can solve this, they are stuck in the cycle. I think this going to require the International community with multiple nations involved deciding that this has to end and come up with a negotiated solution.
I wrote to my lawmakers urging restraint with limited US involvement. Glad some have concern for human rights.
The order to leave by itself would cause the deaths of thousands of people. If you asked that many people in a city in America to evacuate in that timeframe it would be difficult and that is with all the modern connectivity we have. the people in Gaza currently have no electricity so how is this message even getting to civilian’s in the first place, most have no cars or fuel meaning this evac is being done on foot, and most importantly no food or water. You will have hundreds of thousands of people dying of starvation. This order from israel is genocide mascaraing as protecting civilian’s. Israel has all of the power in this situation if they want civilians to evacuate before a ground invasion that likely levels all of northern Gaza into a demilitarized zone fine don’t give 24 hours notice work with international organizations and other countries to move these people over the course of several days or weeks. But then the white hot rage everyone is currently feeling might die down and international opinion giving Israel free reign to basically glass Gaza might go away and they can’t have that.
No win. Do nothing and you encourage Hamas backed by Russia and Iran as proxies to gear up to slaughter another 1000 Israelis next month. Hamas blends back into the population and most weapon production is underground in tunnels. There is no way to hit only military targets in Gaza. Just a big no win. They may need to occupy Gaza and root out Hamas and every tunnel. That will cost thousands of lives on both sides.
I know they are totally different situations, but with the seige of Gaza I keep thinking about the Warsaw Ghetto. What are people under seige, under control of foreign entities supposed to do?
I don’t even know if it’s just progressives at this point, we are dangerously close to WW3 already. Iran, Russia, Israel, turkey, US, UK and China are all involved in the current flashpoints and it’s been tense for a while now. (South Sudan, Balkans (Serbia a couple weeks back), Armenia/Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Syria, Yemen and now Israel/Palestine/Gaza).
This is an issue where I can honestly understand all of the sides and think they all have valid points. Whether pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, or neutral. I can’t imagine being a Palestinian or Israeli right now, Jewish or Muslim in that region. It’s terrible for everyone. What a horrible situation with no easy solution. I do have my own opinions, like that Netanyahu is a horrible, destructive, and self-serving person, but I respect most everyone else’s opinion on this issue as well. I’ve never been challenged like the people of Palestine or Israel have – if I was religious, I’d pray for all of them.
Yeah I feel like we’re about to watch a genocide in real time and my country’s official response seems to be “Yeah go for it.”
These requests honestly seem pretty reasonable. Some general thoughts:
1) Israel is going to invade Gaza and attempt to overthrow Hamas. Governments are first and foremost responsible for protecting their citizens, and after what Hamas did, it is unreasonable to expect Israel to allow the status quo to continue.
2) The invasion is going to be bloody for both sides and unfortunately a lot of Palestinian civilians are going to die. This is mostly the fault of Hamas, who hide amongst non-combatants to try to protect themselves (in violation of theGeneva convention).
3) Although some civilian casualties will be unavoidable, the IDF should apply the concept of proportionality and so everything in its power to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties. Any deliberate targeting of civilians (or indiscriminate attacks) is unacceptable and should not be tolerated, although realistically it’s very hard for anyone who isn’t in the IDF to accept this.
4) Israel should lift the blockade on water and food, which seem more like collective punishment than legitimate military actions. The same is possibly true for providing electricity (I don’t know enough about the military implications to have a strong view here).
5) I guess Israel, the US and others should make efforts to provide humanitarian corridors, but it’s not clear to me which countries would be willing to take large numbers of Palestinian refugees? Maybe the solution is to have designated safe zones in Gaza which receive humanitarian aid.
The Gaza cutoff is disturbing It could mean they are going to completely destroy Gaza City.
We’re deep into a catch twenty-two. One side wants the wholesale genocide of the other, and the other side is actually powerful enough to pull a genocide off. Neither side has the moral high ground and there is no moral upside here, regardless of what actions the White House takes or does not take.
What the least wrong action is depends on your worldview.
People for wiping out Gaza need to chill.
Republicans say the reason the Israelis were caught off guard is because the IDF is woke.
I guess Hamas shouldn’t have done that. They did this knowing what would happen to their human shields. It was Hamas. If Hamas doesn’t want this, don’t slaughter innocent civilians. Come out and fight without cowering behind women and children.
I saw an interview with John Kirby on channel 4 and his responses were quite disturbing. It seems the US is going to unconditionally support Israel. The US is the only one that can put limits on Israel and try to reduce the impending carnage.
I’m genuinely terrified for what the coming days are gonna be like
Let me fix that headline ..”concern over Israel’s continued and expanding Genocide campaign”
What is Israel supposed to do?
They were attacked? Should they do nothing and just let the missiles and murders continue?
They are asking civilians to leave so they can go after military targets.
It’s not great, but I can’t understand what anyone would expect them to do differently?
I wonder what the progressive plan is for dealing with terrorists who are worse than ISIS:
Do they expect Israel to just let the terrorists get away with it? How can they not blame Hamas for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza rather than Israel? Hamas caused this entire situation. It’s all their fault.
So I am thinking these lawmakers are not caring about the Americans who are being held hostage by Hamas.
This is turning into Fallujah and Srebrenica. They’ve set (an impossible) deadline to evacuate, while also not allowing anyone to leave or giving anyone a place to go to, and will then go in declaring anyone left is a militant and legitimate target.
Just give up Hamas. Either the Palestinians do it or the international community does it. Why the fuck does Israel have to do it and be the bad guy?
> Progressive lawmakers write Biden to express deep concern over Israel’s coming Gaza campaign
This is not a surprise. They don’t think Israel should be able to defend itself.
32 comments
Upcoming ethnic cleansing land grab*
What Hamas did was terrible but we all know Israel has been itching for this for years. When a country’s former AG and intelligence chief call a place an apartheid I’m inclined to agree.
>“We are deeply concerned about the order to evacuate over a million civilians out of northern Gaza and the devastating humanitarian consequences that would ensue,” wrote the House members. “As both the European Union High Representative for Foreign Affairs and the United Nations Commission on Human Rights said, imposing a complete siege on Gaza and depriving 2.3 million Palestinian civilians who have nowhere else to go — half of whom are children — of food, water, and electricity, would be a violation of international humanitarian law.”
…
>In the letter, which was first obtained by POLITICO, CPC Chair Rep. Pramila Jayapal and others make five primary requests of the president.
>The lawmakers said Biden should help reestablish the delivery of food, water and electricity to Gaza, discourage hate crimes against both Jews and Muslims in the U.S., and guarantee any supplemental funding requests made of Congress include humanitarian aid for Palestinians and Israelis. In addition, they ask Biden to make the case that Israel follows international law and instruct the U.S. to work with partners in the region to set up a humanitarian corridor allowing Palestinian civilians to leave Gaza.
>The lawmakers also condemn the Hamas’ attack and offer their agreement with Biden that Israel has the right to defend itself. But, they said, that response must be cognizant of Palestinian civilians in Gaza “who themselves are victims of Hamas.”
>In order to prevent hate crimes against Jewish and Muslim Americans, the lawmakers urged Biden to communicate “to the American people that Hamas is not the Palestinian people and the Palestinian people are not Hamas.”
[removed]
The progressive caucus is generally stupid about almost everything, but this letter captures the essence of this tragedy much better than the utter nonsense that has been spewed by attention-seeking progressive Twitter personalities.
Civilians didn’t choose *this*, all Palestinians are not Hamas, civilians should have safe passage and food, water, healthcare, Hamas is bad and Israel has every right to go after Hamas.
Any attempt by anyone to try to blame Israel for what happened over the weekend will make them look foolish and will not win hearts and minds. I’m glad this group didn’t fall for the *very online* trap.
Amazing how some folks here are ready to justify the potential war crimes that Israel may commit. Yes, Hamas has committed war crimes. However, wouldn’t doing the same thing back in retaliation simply make Israel as horrible? Civilian lives, whether Israeli or Gazans, are civilian lives. They must always be protected. That’s why we have rules of war.
It’s fine that the US is helping Israel, but if they cross the line and commit war crimes, I don’t want my tax dollars to be part of it.
Its ethnic cleansing and collective punishment.
Israel has a right to defend itself.
The people in gaza are already refugees since 1948. Now they are told to leave. Where are they supposed to go?
What sympathy Israel had this week will evaporate by this day next week.
Joe is making all the right moves as usual. Too bad he doesn’t get credit from republicans.
This is going to be a massacre. The 2000+ injured in the hospital and doctors attending them can’t leave.
This has gone on for 70 years. There are no easy answers or else this would have been solved decades ago.
I think Israel and Palestine are stuck in a cycle of hate and violence and each violent act by one side amplifies the support of the most extreme voices on the other side. Which isn’t to say they are equivalent, I think Hamas is the most deplorable of any group involved. But that doesn’t get us to a solution.
I don’t think Israel and Palestine can solve this, they are stuck in the cycle. I think this going to require the International community with multiple nations involved deciding that this has to end and come up with a negotiated solution.
I wrote to my lawmakers urging restraint with limited US involvement. Glad some have concern for human rights.
The order to leave by itself would cause the deaths of thousands of people. If you asked that many people in a city in America to evacuate in that timeframe it would be difficult and that is with all the modern connectivity we have. the people in Gaza currently have no electricity so how is this message even getting to civilian’s in the first place, most have no cars or fuel meaning this evac is being done on foot, and most importantly no food or water. You will have hundreds of thousands of people dying of starvation. This order from israel is genocide mascaraing as protecting civilian’s. Israel has all of the power in this situation if they want civilians to evacuate before a ground invasion that likely levels all of northern Gaza into a demilitarized zone fine don’t give 24 hours notice work with international organizations and other countries to move these people over the course of several days or weeks. But then the white hot rage everyone is currently feeling might die down and international opinion giving Israel free reign to basically glass Gaza might go away and they can’t have that.
No win. Do nothing and you encourage Hamas backed by Russia and Iran as proxies to gear up to slaughter another 1000 Israelis next month. Hamas blends back into the population and most weapon production is underground in tunnels. There is no way to hit only military targets in Gaza. Just a big no win. They may need to occupy Gaza and root out Hamas and every tunnel. That will cost thousands of lives on both sides.
I know they are totally different situations, but with the seige of Gaza I keep thinking about the Warsaw Ghetto. What are people under seige, under control of foreign entities supposed to do?
I don’t even know if it’s just progressives at this point, we are dangerously close to WW3 already. Iran, Russia, Israel, turkey, US, UK and China are all involved in the current flashpoints and it’s been tense for a while now. (South Sudan, Balkans (Serbia a couple weeks back), Armenia/Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Syria, Yemen and now Israel/Palestine/Gaza).
This is an issue where I can honestly understand all of the sides and think they all have valid points. Whether pro-Palestine, pro-Israel, or neutral. I can’t imagine being a Palestinian or Israeli right now, Jewish or Muslim in that region. It’s terrible for everyone. What a horrible situation with no easy solution. I do have my own opinions, like that Netanyahu is a horrible, destructive, and self-serving person, but I respect most everyone else’s opinion on this issue as well. I’ve never been challenged like the people of Palestine or Israel have – if I was religious, I’d pray for all of them.
Yeah I feel like we’re about to watch a genocide in real time and my country’s official response seems to be “Yeah go for it.”
These requests honestly seem pretty reasonable. Some general thoughts:
1) Israel is going to invade Gaza and attempt to overthrow Hamas. Governments are first and foremost responsible for protecting their citizens, and after what Hamas did, it is unreasonable to expect Israel to allow the status quo to continue.
2) The invasion is going to be bloody for both sides and unfortunately a lot of Palestinian civilians are going to die. This is mostly the fault of Hamas, who hide amongst non-combatants to try to protect themselves (in violation of theGeneva convention).
3) Although some civilian casualties will be unavoidable, the IDF should apply the concept of proportionality and so everything in its power to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties. Any deliberate targeting of civilians (or indiscriminate attacks) is unacceptable and should not be tolerated, although realistically it’s very hard for anyone who isn’t in the IDF to accept this.
4) Israel should lift the blockade on water and food, which seem more like collective punishment than legitimate military actions. The same is possibly true for providing electricity (I don’t know enough about the military implications to have a strong view here).
5) I guess Israel, the US and others should make efforts to provide humanitarian corridors, but it’s not clear to me which countries would be willing to take large numbers of Palestinian refugees? Maybe the solution is to have designated safe zones in Gaza which receive humanitarian aid.
I keep thinking of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah and just how ugly it was having an insurgent force housed amongst civilians, some of whom supported the insurgents. Dark days.
The Gaza cutoff is disturbing It could mean they are going to completely destroy Gaza City.
We’re deep into a catch twenty-two. One side wants the wholesale genocide of the other, and the other side is actually powerful enough to pull a genocide off. Neither side has the moral high ground and there is no moral upside here, regardless of what actions the White House takes or does not take.
What the least wrong action is depends on your worldview.
People for wiping out Gaza need to chill.
Republicans say the reason the Israelis were caught off guard is because the IDF is woke.
I guess Hamas shouldn’t have done that. They did this knowing what would happen to their human shields. It was Hamas. If Hamas doesn’t want this, don’t slaughter innocent civilians. Come out and fight without cowering behind women and children.
I saw an interview with John Kirby on channel 4 and his responses were quite disturbing. It seems the US is going to unconditionally support Israel. The US is the only one that can put limits on Israel and try to reduce the impending carnage.
I’m genuinely terrified for what the coming days are gonna be like
Let me fix that headline ..”concern over Israel’s continued and expanding Genocide campaign”
What is Israel supposed to do?
They were attacked? Should they do nothing and just let the missiles and murders continue?
They are asking civilians to leave so they can go after military targets.
It’s not great, but I can’t understand what anyone would expect them to do differently?
I wonder what the progressive plan is for dealing with terrorists who are worse than ISIS:
[Pentagon chief Austin says Hamas atrocities are ‘worse than what I saw with ISIS’](https://www.timesofisrael.com/pentagon-chief-austin-says-hamas-atrocities-are-worse-than-what-i-saw-with-isis/)
Do they expect Israel to just let the terrorists get away with it? How can they not blame Hamas for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza rather than Israel? Hamas caused this entire situation. It’s all their fault.
So I am thinking these lawmakers are not caring about the Americans who are being held hostage by Hamas.
This is turning into Fallujah and Srebrenica. They’ve set (an impossible) deadline to evacuate, while also not allowing anyone to leave or giving anyone a place to go to, and will then go in declaring anyone left is a militant and legitimate target.
Just give up Hamas. Either the Palestinians do it or the international community does it. Why the fuck does Israel have to do it and be the bad guy?
> Progressive lawmakers write Biden to express deep concern over Israel’s coming Gaza campaign
This is not a surprise. They don’t think Israel should be able to defend itself.