Canada is taking a step toward making universal basic income a reality. The Senate’s national finance committee will study a bill that would guarantee access to a livable income to everyone over 17.
Canadians, what’s it like to have a government that’s working toward a better future?
I don’t really have any idea if UBI is *actually* that good (it *is* compelling to want to try it), but I would settle for a government that isn’t continuously manufacturing problems that only they can solve.
Step 1: AI does all the work
Step 2: Do not pay wages to the AI
Step 3: Tax the AI as if it was paid wages
Step 4: Distribute money to humans
Life in Canada is getting more expensive and difficult by the day. This is not the solution though, this would only raise taxes of the working class, small businesses and prices on goods and services. We already have a huge budget deficit with the current government. We need lower taxes, and lower immigration to allow for jobs and housing to catchup. Taxing people into oblivion to only give them cents back on the dollar is not the solution.
With the rise of AI it’s going to be this or having the entire lower class become homeless climate refugees. The economy will collapse when you have too few jobs and lowering wages due to AI. A huge population of workers that would need retraining because their very specialized jobs become obsolete
Edit: for all but a few who just tell AI what to do.*
There is no rule in the universe that says there will always be enough jobs for everyone. Basing someone’s survival on their ability to contribute to the economy (not necessarily society) is archaic. We produce enough food for everyone so let’s make sure everyone eats. I’d pay an extra in my taxes if it meant I would never have to worry about being homeless. Why should we accept that the “starving artist” must actually starve to pursue passion.
It’s a terrible idea, of course, but that they are claiming this will *help* inflation is just hilarious. We tried he dropping money from a helicopter approach during COVID, and we saw the result. This would be that on steroids.
I think that this is important and in some part an eventuality, but *jesus fucking christ* Trudeau, it is not the time. *Read the room.*
Know what you should have done? Passed electoral reform in your first term, straight out of the gate, like you promised. But obvious expenditures like this are going to come across as trying to buy votes, which will work against you, and you’re already so far down in the polls I don’t think you’re coming back. It’s over. Step down. Pass the torch. Try to save your marriage.
From efficiency perspective, UBI makes sense. As I understand it, the current system relies on various municipal and provincial entities to verify a welfare recipient’s need. Moving to a universal system should be more efficient.
UBI recipients should not be penalized for working to supplement their income. Income tax should be collected on such supplementary income.
However, I’m not sure if any politician can resist the urge to ‘tinker’ with an efficient UBI system to garner votes…
The Canadian government has more than quintupled the immigration including temporary work visas for unskilled workers in the last few years which has caused huge stress on an already overburdened system and now they’re already planning on paying these people to do basically nothing?
Hurry up and pass UBI into law, Canadian government.
Support people, not corporations.
UBI doesnt work, for several reasons
No get a job
They’re gonna start considering committing to starting a commit that will evaluate the possibility of establishing a council to determine the viability of creating the groundwork for a long term plan.
How about just figuring out how to build more housing? More housing lowering housing costs would go much further than whatever a universal basic income could provide.
Or is the real problem that there are a relatively few cities in Canada that everyone wants to go to?
… considered …
The government should own all worker replacing AI algorithms and machines and lease them to companies. Profits go the government that pays it out to citizens. That’s how you can tax an entity that isn’t human and corporate taxes won’t increase which politicians are loathe to do.
Cool, invest more in your military first.
Only way I’d be on board for UBI is simple….EVERY SINGLE person gets the same amount (let’s say $1500/whatever), then if you continue to work, you add that income to your tax at the end of the year and get taxed on the full amount.
Someone making 20k gets an addition 18k, they get taxed on 38k.
Someone making 100k gets an additional 18k, they get taxed on the 118k.
It’s the simplest way to make it work…in my opinion.
And if your only income is 18k, then no tax (but of course people will work for cash – same as many people on CERB did)…but you’ll never eliminate the cash society unless you go 100% digital currency.
I feel like rather than a base income staples like food and shelter need to be addressed. If people can own homes and just increase the price of rent then adding a base income isn’t going to do a lot.
Nova Scotia has already implemented a terrible form of UBI.
They have the most government employees per capita in the nation and one of the highest in the world. This gets even worse when you look at organizations funded by the government and their hiring.
Basically, a pile of bullshit jobs where people pretend to work.
As I said, the worst form of UBI.
I would be curious how much the total amount presently paid out in various programs totals? EI, Veterans, Welfare, disability, old age, etc.
Then I would be curious how much these programs cost to administrate. Something I have read about many welfare programs is how they cost more to administer than they pay out. I suspect most of these programs are similar.
If you massively simplified the criteria (you are Canadian), then the program should be fantastically simple to administrate. Mostly you are looking for fraud and abuses.
I am going to throw out a guess that if you take all the payments from the above systems and just do UBI the cost would be similar. Keep in mind it isn’t as simple a calculation as #Canadians x the payments because many Canadians will continue to earn money and be paying this in taxes.
>Gvt instate UBI
>People happy
>Gvt and corpos put locks and limits.
MFW UBI becomes slaver wage
Don’t hold your breath. It’s been considered for decades, & nothing ever came of it.
Probably not. The Liberals said they were considering it last election and nothing happened. Like all good political parties they lie to get you to vote for them lol
This is interesting,
“This would include ensuring that “participation in education, training or the labour market” is not required to receive UBI, and that funding for other social services are not cut.”
So just higher social services, this isn’t a UBI, by definition UBI *should* be replacing *many* social and welfare services. That’s the point. Not just giving everyone more money. A bunch of payoffs are that you don’t have to pay for administration of a welfare state.
I hope it works out but fear the unintended consequences.
Wish in one hand, shit in the other; which one fills first?
So many more things that need to occur. Holy fuck these guys are dumb. The fact that these dickheads are even wasting time on thinking about this is disgraceful. How about houses, infrastructure, industry & military spending? It’s not hard to tell that we are lacking in all areas that make other countries thrive. Everyone get off your ass and go get it
current Canadian party does this when their poll is in the shitter, then when elected, not fulfill its promise
rinse and repeat
happened before when Trudeau promised election reform, it never arrived
We can’t even get health insurance in the USA.
Everybody move to Canada and smoke lots of pot!
A bunch of evidence consistently shows that ubi won’t disincentive ppl to work.
It should be common sense now
Sounds like communism and we all know how that ends.
Just do it on national scale and show the world it works.
Andrew Yang has talked a lot about this. The only way it works is when everybody receives the same check regardless of demographics or income. Otherwise it becomes divisive, bitter, and soon thereafter dismantled.
The problem with basic income is then who is going to work the shitty minimum wage jobs that no one wants? They’d have to significantly raise it to entice people to work. If you can get a living wage staying home doing nothing why would you take a crappy job that pays marginally more but requires all of your time?
That said I’m heavily in favour of UBI… I just worry about conservatives coming in afterwards and gutting it then poof we have no benefits and no UBI.
No. Imagine how much worse inflation will be with a bunch more free currency injected into the system.
I’m already paying 50%+ on groceries from all the covid hand out repercussions, I don’t want to pay more.
Must be some elections coming soon
>The bill in the Senate, which received a first and second reading in 2021 and last April, respectively, would require provincial ministers and Indigenous governing bodies across the country to convene and determine how a UBI plan could work. This would include ensuring that “participation in education, training or the labour market” is not required to receive UBI, and that funding for other social services are not cut. If the bill passes both the Senate and House of Commons, a report would have to be made public a year after the study begins
My understanding of UBI is that it is funded via cutting funding to all other social services.
Then people who need those services pay for them out of the money they receive as part of the basic income.
The idea being that if everyone has enough money to access basic housing food and education the need for all or most of those services disappear.
At least that was the pitch I heard.
We consider a lot in Canada, doesn’t mean it actually happens. We also have a lot of frameworks, doesn’t mean they’re implemented.
39 comments
**From reporter Roshan Abraham:**
Canada is taking a step toward making universal basic income a reality. The Senate’s national finance committee will study a bill that would guarantee access to a livable income to everyone over 17.
Link to the full article: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kx75q/a-universal-basic-income-is-being-considered-by-canadas-government](https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kx75q/a-universal-basic-income-is-being-considered-by-canadas-government)
Canadians, what’s it like to have a government that’s working toward a better future?
I don’t really have any idea if UBI is *actually* that good (it *is* compelling to want to try it), but I would settle for a government that isn’t continuously manufacturing problems that only they can solve.
Step 1: AI does all the work
Step 2: Do not pay wages to the AI
Step 3: Tax the AI as if it was paid wages
Step 4: Distribute money to humans
Life in Canada is getting more expensive and difficult by the day. This is not the solution though, this would only raise taxes of the working class, small businesses and prices on goods and services. We already have a huge budget deficit with the current government. We need lower taxes, and lower immigration to allow for jobs and housing to catchup. Taxing people into oblivion to only give them cents back on the dollar is not the solution.
With the rise of AI it’s going to be this or having the entire lower class become homeless climate refugees. The economy will collapse when you have too few jobs and lowering wages due to AI. A huge population of workers that would need retraining because their very specialized jobs become obsolete
Edit: for all but a few who just tell AI what to do.*
There is no rule in the universe that says there will always be enough jobs for everyone. Basing someone’s survival on their ability to contribute to the economy (not necessarily society) is archaic. We produce enough food for everyone so let’s make sure everyone eats. I’d pay an extra in my taxes if it meant I would never have to worry about being homeless. Why should we accept that the “starving artist” must actually starve to pursue passion.
It’s a terrible idea, of course, but that they are claiming this will *help* inflation is just hilarious. We tried he dropping money from a helicopter approach during COVID, and we saw the result. This would be that on steroids.
I think that this is important and in some part an eventuality, but *jesus fucking christ* Trudeau, it is not the time. *Read the room.*
Know what you should have done? Passed electoral reform in your first term, straight out of the gate, like you promised. But obvious expenditures like this are going to come across as trying to buy votes, which will work against you, and you’re already so far down in the polls I don’t think you’re coming back. It’s over. Step down. Pass the torch. Try to save your marriage.
From efficiency perspective, UBI makes sense. As I understand it, the current system relies on various municipal and provincial entities to verify a welfare recipient’s need. Moving to a universal system should be more efficient.
UBI recipients should not be penalized for working to supplement their income. Income tax should be collected on such supplementary income.
However, I’m not sure if any politician can resist the urge to ‘tinker’ with an efficient UBI system to garner votes…
The Canadian government has more than quintupled the immigration including temporary work visas for unskilled workers in the last few years which has caused huge stress on an already overburdened system and now they’re already planning on paying these people to do basically nothing?
Hurry up and pass UBI into law, Canadian government.
Support people, not corporations.
UBI doesnt work, for several reasons
No get a job
They’re gonna start considering committing to starting a commit that will evaluate the possibility of establishing a council to determine the viability of creating the groundwork for a long term plan.
How about just figuring out how to build more housing? More housing lowering housing costs would go much further than whatever a universal basic income could provide.
Or is the real problem that there are a relatively few cities in Canada that everyone wants to go to?
… considered …
The government should own all worker replacing AI algorithms and machines and lease them to companies. Profits go the government that pays it out to citizens. That’s how you can tax an entity that isn’t human and corporate taxes won’t increase which politicians are loathe to do.
Cool, invest more in your military first.
Only way I’d be on board for UBI is simple….EVERY SINGLE person gets the same amount (let’s say $1500/whatever), then if you continue to work, you add that income to your tax at the end of the year and get taxed on the full amount.
Someone making 20k gets an addition 18k, they get taxed on 38k.
Someone making 100k gets an additional 18k, they get taxed on the 118k.
It’s the simplest way to make it work…in my opinion.
And if your only income is 18k, then no tax (but of course people will work for cash – same as many people on CERB did)…but you’ll never eliminate the cash society unless you go 100% digital currency.
I feel like rather than a base income staples like food and shelter need to be addressed. If people can own homes and just increase the price of rent then adding a base income isn’t going to do a lot.
Nova Scotia has already implemented a terrible form of UBI.
They have the most government employees per capita in the nation and one of the highest in the world. This gets even worse when you look at organizations funded by the government and their hiring.
Basically, a pile of bullshit jobs where people pretend to work.
As I said, the worst form of UBI.
I would be curious how much the total amount presently paid out in various programs totals? EI, Veterans, Welfare, disability, old age, etc.
Then I would be curious how much these programs cost to administrate. Something I have read about many welfare programs is how they cost more to administer than they pay out. I suspect most of these programs are similar.
If you massively simplified the criteria (you are Canadian), then the program should be fantastically simple to administrate. Mostly you are looking for fraud and abuses.
I am going to throw out a guess that if you take all the payments from the above systems and just do UBI the cost would be similar. Keep in mind it isn’t as simple a calculation as #Canadians x the payments because many Canadians will continue to earn money and be paying this in taxes.
>Gvt instate UBI
>People happy
>Gvt and corpos put locks and limits.
MFW UBI becomes slaver wage
Don’t hold your breath. It’s been considered for decades, & nothing ever came of it.
Probably not. The Liberals said they were considering it last election and nothing happened. Like all good political parties they lie to get you to vote for them lol
This is interesting,
“This would include ensuring that “participation in education, training or the labour market” is not required to receive UBI, and that funding for other social services are not cut.”
So just higher social services, this isn’t a UBI, by definition UBI *should* be replacing *many* social and welfare services. That’s the point. Not just giving everyone more money. A bunch of payoffs are that you don’t have to pay for administration of a welfare state.
I hope it works out but fear the unintended consequences.
Wish in one hand, shit in the other; which one fills first?
So many more things that need to occur. Holy fuck these guys are dumb. The fact that these dickheads are even wasting time on thinking about this is disgraceful. How about houses, infrastructure, industry & military spending? It’s not hard to tell that we are lacking in all areas that make other countries thrive. Everyone get off your ass and go get it
current Canadian party does this when their poll is in the shitter, then when elected, not fulfill its promise
rinse and repeat
happened before when Trudeau promised election reform, it never arrived
We can’t even get health insurance in the USA.
Everybody move to Canada and smoke lots of pot!
A bunch of evidence consistently shows that ubi won’t disincentive ppl to work.
It should be common sense now
Sounds like communism and we all know how that ends.
Just do it on national scale and show the world it works.
Andrew Yang has talked a lot about this. The only way it works is when everybody receives the same check regardless of demographics or income. Otherwise it becomes divisive, bitter, and soon thereafter dismantled.
The problem with basic income is then who is going to work the shitty minimum wage jobs that no one wants? They’d have to significantly raise it to entice people to work. If you can get a living wage staying home doing nothing why would you take a crappy job that pays marginally more but requires all of your time?
That said I’m heavily in favour of UBI… I just worry about conservatives coming in afterwards and gutting it then poof we have no benefits and no UBI.
No. Imagine how much worse inflation will be with a bunch more free currency injected into the system.
I’m already paying 50%+ on groceries from all the covid hand out repercussions, I don’t want to pay more.
Must be some elections coming soon
>The bill in the Senate, which received a first and second reading in 2021 and last April, respectively, would require provincial ministers and Indigenous governing bodies across the country to convene and determine how a UBI plan could work. This would include ensuring that “participation in education, training or the labour market” is not required to receive UBI, and that funding for other social services are not cut. If the bill passes both the Senate and House of Commons, a report would have to be made public a year after the study begins
My understanding of UBI is that it is funded via cutting funding to all other social services.
Then people who need those services pay for them out of the money they receive as part of the basic income.
The idea being that if everyone has enough money to access basic housing food and education the need for all or most of those services disappear.
At least that was the pitch I heard.
We consider a lot in Canada, doesn’t mean it actually happens. We also have a lot of frameworks, doesn’t mean they’re implemented.