Fuck man, another 10 years of progress down the drain.
Goddamn.
Meanwhile many nuclear power plants are built along the German border and will sell cheap energy to German industry, and will help to offset Germany’s woefully dirty energy until alternate energy is economically and environmentally viable.
The plan is no doubt for Germany’s green energy industry to come out on top in the future.
Later decommissioning costs will be paid by the other EU countries, and German politicians get to tut-tut them.
In the meantime, ordinary German taxpayers will be forced to subsidise German companies, probably with heavy taxes on household nuclear & coal and subsidies given to “green” energy.
Corporatism at its finest. Good or bad? History will tell…
How about Germany shut up until they prove that net zero is possible without nuclear?
A whole decade of energiewende and they still are the biggest emitter of the big EU countries. Their emissions will probably increase in 2022 and 2023 as they take 15% of their low carbon electricity off the grid.
If they can decarbonize without nuclear, then I’ll be fine with a nuclear exit.
But right now, they basically want us to burn the planet for no good reason.
Yeah we’re calling it dangerous but in the same time we’re buying it from France and coal energy from Poland because renewable energy can’t fulfill the needs. F*CK Merkel. We not only pay extra for the energy industry to compensate their losses due to the forced switch (leading to highest energy costs for consumers) we also become completely dependent on other countries. And then we should shift to electrical cars. FML
Yeah, this is just ridiculous, it’s either fossil fuel lobby or just plain insanity to reject nuclear while welcome burning natural gas and thus prolong dependence on Russian kleptocracy.
Germany is the energy equivalent of anti-vaxxer.
And that’s how you get anti-EU people folks!
Germany is like anti vaxxers in this case. But it doesn’t matter nuclear stations will be built no matter what germany says
They want use Putin’s gas? Support dictature is bad thing for ecology
Oh no ! Germany is retarded !
Nuclear power AND gas
Ironic, while pumping browncoal smoke into their citizens’ lungs
I just don’t understand how they saying gas and nuclear should both be green. ONE of them is green. NOT the other. Nuclear is the solution and Germany is just trying to convince everyone else that their decision to close the plants was not the worst idea of the century.
This is so stupid. In my country around 48% of electricity produced comes from our nuclear power plant. Another 48% comes from coal. Both will need to be closed in the next 20 years. Say we manage to increase the renewable production 10 times in that period. It still wouldn’t account for what the nuclear power plant produces today. We need to build infrastructure now, which will be used in the next 50 years. The only way to replace coal completely and relatively fast is nuclear. This will give us 50 years to make renewables scale and solve the issue long term.
Germany what the fuck honestly
Cars are dangerous, in fact they kill millions of people every year, that’s millions more than nuclear. Germany should stop making cars immediately.
But from a pure economic view, isn’t nuclear power like ridiculously cost-ineffecient without government-subsidies, compared to other green energy?
I think they don’t want to lose leadership in any field to French guys. But honestly I like to read and listen German plan for clean energy production after become almost all vehicles run by battery/fuel cells
It is dangerous for sure, with any mistake the consequences would catastrophic.
The struggling people in South and Eastern Europe:
Fuck my drag, right.
My problem is less in the attempt to label nuclear as green and more in the attempt to label gas as green. Which is part of that same “climate-friendly plan”.
What the fuck germany?!
please free us of our dumb politicians
I find this sudden uncritical love for nuclear energy suspicious.
It ignores the regional anomalies of germany (federal system with Bundesländer, huge population density compared to France and the US, problems with nuclear residuals in ground water)
It also ignores that germany was and is one of the innovators of green energy and follows a more radical plan – thanks to the greens. Germany does more than France and the US. In this context nuclear energy is counterproductive.
It also ignores around 40 years of debate in german society that other societies seemingly never had. Uncritical love towards people, technology etc. is always a bad idea.
But I guess I get downvoted now. Thanks, reddit!
Lets continue this neverending cycle of nuclear love.
Austria is doing the same shit, wanting to sue the EU for that plan, stating nuclear power is dangerous and unsolved and the same stuff the Green parties were often founded upon.
Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be Austrian and for having voted for such people. I honestly don’t think they know of an alternative that is as clean in construction and operation as nuclear, but they still shit themselves because of two major fuck ups, that literally cannot happen with modern reactors.
Some info about ongoin german politics of energy:
Germany has many nuclear plants some km from the borders. Some of them are known to be… not ideal and have problems. For example, look for tihange – a belgian plan with many problems and defects in the past (including hundreds of cracks in the pressure vessel) – local governments ordered worst case studies. In the tihange example, a wide area of north rhine westphalia would be inhabitable. This increases the fear and scapticism (why are so many power plants along the border?)
Next, the nuclear garbage has to be stored somewhere safe for thousands of years. Due to cold war politics, no such storage was found, but forced in a salt stock near the border to DDR. This is more or less public now including problems of safety in that storage. The search for a new storage is ongoing, but every local government does not want to see their area in there. So, havin radioactive garbage and no storage is not seen as sustainable. (Look for „Gorleben“ for details)
The end of the nuclear power supply was decided by the conservatives after fukushima. Chancellor merkel (physics PhD) decided and explained the nuclear power to be dangerous as their is no guarantee of no catastrophies happening and the vast possible damage (as it‘s germany, its less about the potential of deaths but the economic damages that can easily reach many trillion €)
In the last decade, the german goverments (local and federal) did everything to protect coal energy production while blocking solar and wind energy (resulting in loss of 100ks of jobs in that areas). Now, there is a new government – democrats, greens and liberals – they are faced by that proposal from EU. The german population ist split on that question (current polls), so its not easy. As the greens are partially oroginated in the anti-nuclear movement they are strictly against that proposal. The other parties are also against this proposal due to the reasons above. They want to unblock the wind/solar energy and this proposal could lead to a larger discussion about nuclear energy in germany, where in politics noone would win, as the last plants are shut down in the next months and could only extended in use by massive investments – and very expensive state-subventions (nuclear energy is massively funded/supported by state at the moment)
Last, the natural gas from german side is partially supported to be labeled green. Of course, there is something like nordstream which add another political dimension to it. As russia currently reduced massively the amount od gas in the pipelines, gas is getting more political pressure in terms of multiple suppliers. Having this being a green technology could make things easier when adding new/more suplliers (scandnavia, UK…)
So, it is not too easy and germany is split on that question.
I think some of the top comments calling out the use of coal are missing the point.
For one this is a new government. They have different stances on climate policy and agree that Germany’s trajectory has been abysmal so far.
Secondly, they are also not claiming that coal or fossil gas is environmentally friendly or demanding everyone immediatl shut down nuclear power.
They simply argue that nuclear power is not climate friendly. It’s a bridge-gap solution not an environmentally and sustainable one.
The only thing dangerous here is their idiotic dependency on natural gas.
Bending over and spreading their ass cheeks to russia isn’t exactly a smart idea.
28 comments
Whyyyyyyy. God Dammit.
Fuck man, another 10 years of progress down the drain.
Goddamn.
Meanwhile many nuclear power plants are built along the German border and will sell cheap energy to German industry, and will help to offset Germany’s woefully dirty energy until alternate energy is economically and environmentally viable.
The plan is no doubt for Germany’s green energy industry to come out on top in the future.
Later decommissioning costs will be paid by the other EU countries, and German politicians get to tut-tut them.
In the meantime, ordinary German taxpayers will be forced to subsidise German companies, probably with heavy taxes on household nuclear & coal and subsidies given to “green” energy.
Corporatism at its finest. Good or bad? History will tell…
How about Germany shut up until they prove that net zero is possible without nuclear?
A whole decade of energiewende and they still are the biggest emitter of the big EU countries. Their emissions will probably increase in 2022 and 2023 as they take 15% of their low carbon electricity off the grid.
If they can decarbonize without nuclear, then I’ll be fine with a nuclear exit.
But right now, they basically want us to burn the planet for no good reason.
Yeah we’re calling it dangerous but in the same time we’re buying it from France and coal energy from Poland because renewable energy can’t fulfill the needs. F*CK Merkel. We not only pay extra for the energy industry to compensate their losses due to the forced switch (leading to highest energy costs for consumers) we also become completely dependent on other countries. And then we should shift to electrical cars. FML
But natural gas is [okay according to them](https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/germany-welcomes-eu-green-energy-plan-gas-still-opposes-nuclear-2022-01-02/)?
Yeah, this is just ridiculous, it’s either fossil fuel lobby or just plain insanity to reject nuclear while welcome burning natural gas and thus prolong dependence on Russian kleptocracy.
Germany is the energy equivalent of anti-vaxxer.
And that’s how you get anti-EU people folks!
Germany is like anti vaxxers in this case. But it doesn’t matter nuclear stations will be built no matter what germany says
They want use Putin’s gas? Support dictature is bad thing for ecology
Oh no ! Germany is retarded !
Nuclear power AND gas
Ironic, while pumping browncoal smoke into their citizens’ lungs
I just don’t understand how they saying gas and nuclear should both be green. ONE of them is green. NOT the other. Nuclear is the solution and Germany is just trying to convince everyone else that their decision to close the plants was not the worst idea of the century.
This is so stupid. In my country around 48% of electricity produced comes from our nuclear power plant. Another 48% comes from coal. Both will need to be closed in the next 20 years. Say we manage to increase the renewable production 10 times in that period. It still wouldn’t account for what the nuclear power plant produces today. We need to build infrastructure now, which will be used in the next 50 years. The only way to replace coal completely and relatively fast is nuclear. This will give us 50 years to make renewables scale and solve the issue long term.
Germany what the fuck honestly
Cars are dangerous, in fact they kill millions of people every year, that’s millions more than nuclear. Germany should stop making cars immediately.
But from a pure economic view, isn’t nuclear power like ridiculously cost-ineffecient without government-subsidies, compared to other green energy?
I think they don’t want to lose leadership in any field to French guys. But honestly I like to read and listen German plan for clean energy production after become almost all vehicles run by battery/fuel cells
It is dangerous for sure, with any mistake the consequences would catastrophic.
The struggling people in South and Eastern Europe:
Fuck my drag, right.
My problem is less in the attempt to label nuclear as green and more in the attempt to label gas as green. Which is part of that same “climate-friendly plan”.
What the fuck germany?!
please free us of our dumb politicians
I find this sudden uncritical love for nuclear energy suspicious.
It ignores the regional anomalies of germany (federal system with Bundesländer, huge population density compared to France and the US, problems with nuclear residuals in ground water)
It also ignores that germany was and is one of the innovators of green energy and follows a more radical plan – thanks to the greens. Germany does more than France and the US. In this context nuclear energy is counterproductive.
It also ignores around 40 years of debate in german society that other societies seemingly never had. Uncritical love towards people, technology etc. is always a bad idea.
But I guess I get downvoted now. Thanks, reddit!
Lets continue this neverending cycle of nuclear love.
Austria is doing the same shit, wanting to sue the EU for that plan, stating nuclear power is dangerous and unsolved and the same stuff the Green parties were often founded upon.
Sometimes I’m embarrassed to be Austrian and for having voted for such people. I honestly don’t think they know of an alternative that is as clean in construction and operation as nuclear, but they still shit themselves because of two major fuck ups, that literally cannot happen with modern reactors.
Some info about ongoin german politics of energy:
Germany has many nuclear plants some km from the borders. Some of them are known to be… not ideal and have problems. For example, look for tihange – a belgian plan with many problems and defects in the past (including hundreds of cracks in the pressure vessel) – local governments ordered worst case studies. In the tihange example, a wide area of north rhine westphalia would be inhabitable. This increases the fear and scapticism (why are so many power plants along the border?)
Next, the nuclear garbage has to be stored somewhere safe for thousands of years. Due to cold war politics, no such storage was found, but forced in a salt stock near the border to DDR. This is more or less public now including problems of safety in that storage. The search for a new storage is ongoing, but every local government does not want to see their area in there. So, havin radioactive garbage and no storage is not seen as sustainable. (Look for „Gorleben“ for details)
The end of the nuclear power supply was decided by the conservatives after fukushima. Chancellor merkel (physics PhD) decided and explained the nuclear power to be dangerous as their is no guarantee of no catastrophies happening and the vast possible damage (as it‘s germany, its less about the potential of deaths but the economic damages that can easily reach many trillion €)
In the last decade, the german goverments (local and federal) did everything to protect coal energy production while blocking solar and wind energy (resulting in loss of 100ks of jobs in that areas). Now, there is a new government – democrats, greens and liberals – they are faced by that proposal from EU. The german population ist split on that question (current polls), so its not easy. As the greens are partially oroginated in the anti-nuclear movement they are strictly against that proposal. The other parties are also against this proposal due to the reasons above. They want to unblock the wind/solar energy and this proposal could lead to a larger discussion about nuclear energy in germany, where in politics noone would win, as the last plants are shut down in the next months and could only extended in use by massive investments – and very expensive state-subventions (nuclear energy is massively funded/supported by state at the moment)
Last, the natural gas from german side is partially supported to be labeled green. Of course, there is something like nordstream which add another political dimension to it. As russia currently reduced massively the amount od gas in the pipelines, gas is getting more political pressure in terms of multiple suppliers. Having this being a green technology could make things easier when adding new/more suplliers (scandnavia, UK…)
So, it is not too easy and germany is split on that question.
I think some of the top comments calling out the use of coal are missing the point.
For one this is a new government. They have different stances on climate policy and agree that Germany’s trajectory has been abysmal so far.
Secondly, they are also not claiming that coal or fossil gas is environmentally friendly or demanding everyone immediatl shut down nuclear power.
They simply argue that nuclear power is not climate friendly. It’s a bridge-gap solution not an environmentally and sustainable one.
The only thing dangerous here is their idiotic dependency on natural gas.
Bending over and spreading their ass cheeks to russia isn’t exactly a smart idea.