Ok I come from Canada and there’s a few peculiarities I’ve noticed whilst looking for a place here in Germany. My #1 question is regarding how the landlord/subletter always want to make you “buy” the existing appliances and furniture. I’ve seen way too many ads and visited too many places where I get there and the person is like “oh yeah by the way I also want 700 EUR for the dishwasher, my bed, desk, and closet”
My main questions are:
1. Is this negotiable? Like do I have the option to say no I don’t want those, take them with you I have my own? Or is it kind of an unwritten rule that I have to pay for those?
2. Why do people even do this? Why not take your furniture with you? I get it if you’re looking to sell it anyways for whichever reason but I don’t think it should be a term of rental.
So are they asking me if I want to pay for those appliances/furniture? Or are they expecting that I do?
The second main thing I’m wondering about is warm- vs. kaltmiete. The website I’m using (immobilienscout24) shows kalt on the results page and when you expand a result it shows a breakdown of Kaltmiete, Nebenkosten, Heizkosten, and finally sums them up to show you the Warmmiete. My question is: Would Warmmiete/Gesamtmiete _imply_ here that electricity is included? [Screenshot attached as example](https://imgur.com/DozLwTe)
Thanks all! If you have any suggestions on questions to ask during a showing I’d very much appreciate that too 🙂
12 comments
> Is this negotiable?
Like many things, technically yes, but actually no. Unless there’s no competition or the previous tenant is remarkably gracious, then they can always favour an applicant who agrees to take over the furniture too.
> Why do people even do this?
Some furniture were purpose built for a specific size/shape room and can’t be used at their new place. Others move in an already furnished place or merge households so they don’t need the furniture and it’s a long and difficult to task to sell all those pieces individually.
> Would Warmmiete/Gesamtmiete imply here that electricity is included?
No. Unless *explicitly* stated, electricity is not included.
The previous renter is usully trying to sell their stuff. This has several reasons for example their moving together with their spouse and don’t need this stuff an longer.
And yes this is negotiable, but sometimes the pre-renter is seaching for the landlord a new renter and the takeover is part of the deal.
No Warmmiete means to some degree heat, water, warm water and communal services, electricity only for common house parts like stairways
> “oh yeah by the way I also want 700 EUR for the dishwasher, my bed, desk, and closet”
People usually don’t randomly sell their furniture (so no desk, bed etc.) but its not uncommon to sell very heavy or for the flat adapted things, like kitchens etc. This is either because the equipment can’t be removed without damage, isn’t needed in their next home or won’t fit anywhere else.
1. Sure. When I moved in I said no as I was bringing my own furniture.
2. Just why not? There can be many reasons.
Warmiete includes a provision for additional charges like electricity, satellite… but it does not mean it is fully included
As long as the apartment is not offered by the landlord as furnished, it is technically possible to negotiate, but in reality it is not. Because the German rental market is crazy, especially in big cities, and usually the person who is looking for an apartment the most urgently and therefore pays the most gets the apartment.
Sometimes there is a legit reason for that but sometimes they also want to make profit on your back.
2. Kaltmiete is the basic rent for the bare apartment. If you add heating costs, taxes the landlord delegates to you and some other costs to your Kaltmiete you will get the Warmmiete. Note: Electricity is, if not stated otherwise, not included and the heating costs are only an estimated value and can be higher at the year.
1. Sure, but they might have other candidates that don’t negotiate and will prefer those. So you can try if you don’t **need** the flat.
2. Obviously this depends on the situation. Some folks might be moving far away and is less hassle to sell. Some folks might want a new set in their new place for whatever reasons. Of course a lot of folks will take their stuff with them.
Warm, normally doesn’t include electricity.
Only very, very few actual landlords will ever try to make you buy old furniture in their flat. They are in the business of renting out flats, not selling old junk. It’s also much more of a headache than it is worth.
What *does* happen however is that previous *tenants* will try to make some money by selling you their old stuff. They are free to do so, however you are entirely free to refuse that. Furthermore, if there is an obvious and strong (>50%) disparity between what they charge you and what it is actually worth you are entitled to get some of your money back. It’s funny how little stuff is actually worth when it is valuated objectively.
Usually the old tenants look for new tenants. If you don’t offer to buy the things they won’t forward your application to the landlord.
Or like it happened to us: the old tenants wanted 2000€ for a fridge, a table, a wardrobe, some shelves, sent us a n agreement to take them but we shall not tell the landlord. When we refused to sign that document without at least seeing once again the items and getting some info (e.g. how old the fridge is), they told some lies to the landlord and one day before signing the rental contract he took back his offer.
All the Germans we talked to find it normal and also plan to do it, despite hating that it was done to them. But there are also landlords who forbid their tenants to do it.
It’s really really hard to find a long term flat in some cities (Munich, Berlin, etc) especially if you don’t have a German name and also don’t talk German. So, if you like the flat then it might be best to bite the bullet and pay for it. Depending on the location and the flat some people are willing to pay more than 700 Euros just to get the flat.
Here is a satirical video about finding a flat in Berlin. It can give you an idea 😂
https://youtu.be/838GDzXPVtA
1. Yes but no. Negotiable as in drop them 200 EUR on their asking price? Yes. Negotiable as in “no, I don’t want them” – maybe. If it is a contract transfer or the tenant gets a say in it then you don’t get to say no. If you’re dealing with the landlord and the tenant isn’t on best friends terms with them then you can probably reject them. Many people are happy for the furniture though.
2. Because taking your furniture is stress! And expensive! And work! I’ve done this before, and everyone was happy. Also, if they’re selling the fridge and other stuff, do you really want to re-buy all that new?
If you’re finding a place in Berlin, and you like the place and the price is good, I wouldn’t try to find reasons not to take the appliances and furniture.
>1. Is this negotiable? Like do I have the option to say no I don’t want those, take them with you I have my own? Or is it kind of an unwritten rule that I have to pay for those?
Yes, but if the one doing the advertisement is the previous tenant then it is very difficult that they recommend you to the landlord. If the landlord is the one managing the ad then they don’t care, they add what furniture is being sold because of courtesy
> 2. Why do people even do this? Why not take your furniture with you? I get it if you’re looking to sell it anyways for whichever reason but I don’t think it should be a term of rental.
I did this. In my case because I moved from city and I didnt want to pay for a company so I rented a van myself. No way I was going to move a giant closet, washing machine fridge dishwasher etc through the stairs. And the new tenant was interested himself in getting some new furniture so I sold some very cheap stuff I wanted to replace anyways
At least for the kitchen its common standart. But i mean kitchen are heavy and stuff.