https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/03/independent-scotland-would-let-asylum-seekers-work-says-snp-immigration-depopulation

This article is from last Friday but I only saw it today. Whilst these are theoretically laudable and humane aims, I’d argue they’re the aims of an established and economic powerhouse of a country, rather than the unknown reality that would be an independent Scotland. Does anyone else look around and wonder where the money to fund this would actually come from when NHS Scotland is clearly on it’s knees (if you don’t think it is you clearly aren’t on any waiting lists), so many services have been cut, and household poverty is at an all time high? Why can’t an independent Scotland focus on making a country where young Scots will want to live, work and have families in? If governments made existing easier; the birth rate would sort itself out.

Rather than the SNP encouraging rampant immigration when we already have underfunded and overstretched services and a dearth of homes for those of us who already live here, why not focus on making Scotland a sustainable green country where the focus is on quality of life and landscape rather than economic GDP?

I guess I’m trying to articulate that I’m not sure the SNP’s utopian, naive, and idealistic vision for Scotland is one that I share, the lunatics seem to be in charge of Both the asylums in London and Edinburgh, and it leaves me in a massive quandary as to who to vote for.

(ETA: The right to work is something I agree Asylum seekers should be able to do, and I’m aware the asylum system in the UK needs a major revamp to be fairer and more efficient.)

by BrokenIvor

22 comments

  1. So they should just starve on the streets is that what the Guardian is alluding to?

  2. I fear that an independent Scotland is pretty quickly gonna lurch to the right, asylum seekers will be exploited, middle class will get robbed and i dread to think whats in store for my chums and i on skid row.

  4. I hope this proves to be true, but I don’t think it will. It’s really easy to promise that in an independent Scotland it’ll rain single malt every third Thursday, because you’re selling a dream not running a country.

    Scotland likes to define itself as left wing in contrast or opposition to a perceived very right wing English outlook. but left to our own devices I think we’d quickly give up the performative left wing dreams for an Irish low tax high corporate influence model of prosperity.

  5. You’re saying people fleeing war and persecution should be given their basic needs and be allowed to pay their own way for it?

    How dare the SNP. /s

  6. One thing for sure it’s better than debating shit with you

  7. The only benefits they should get is a months digs (in designated asylum housing) and food vouchers then have to work to support themselves like the rest of us.

  8. It might be in the SNP’s manifesto once we get independence but just now she might as well write it on the side of a bus.

  9. We will never have a decent society with unchecked criminal gangs coming into the country fleecing the system.under the banner of (asylum ).If all the checks were done properly the masses probably wouldn’t give a shit. The way it’s run now is disastrous for all .

  10. A future independent Scotland cannot be compelled to do something by the current Holyrood administration.

    This is exactly the kind of stuff that the brexit campaign did.

  11. There’s always been an element of “Indy at all costs” in the SNP. A number of them are happy to promise what they can’t keep, safe in the knowledge that even if they have to go back on their word, we’ll be an independent country and their mission will be already achieved. The alternative is we remain part of the union and they can continue to peddle fantasies with little consequence.

  12. My understanding is that the difference is the right to work(etc) at the point of claiming asylum rather than asylum being granted, which raises two questions:

    What is the rejection rate of asylum claims and what is the typical waiting period between applying and having a decision on asylum status?

    I don’t think this system is necessarily morally superior than the current process nor is it fair to reject out of hand without greater understanding of the current data.

  14. I think the SNP is having the wrong conversation at the wrong time. It’s not for Shirley Ann Sommerville – or the SNP – to decide what immigration policy will be in an independent Scotland, that will be the decision of the elected government of an independent Scotland which may be the SNP but which equally may not be the SNP. The point the SNP should be making is that Immigration Policy – like everything else in an independent Scotland – will be fully the decision of Scottish politicians, made with the best interests and agreement of the Scottish public to suit the needs of Scotland and Scotland alone. That is the point they should be driving home in EVERY policy area.

  15. The SNP need to stop pretending they are running an Independent country.

    Once we get Independence they can run on these manifesto pledges to their hearts content but right now they need to focus on getting us out.

    Simply put no one can tell us how Scotland will be run as it is up to the government of the day. We need to promote the fact that we are more than capable of running our own affairs and convince people that we can then mould our own destiny like every other normal fucking country. In 2014 I didn’t pay a blind bit of attention to anything the SNP said. It was all a wish list. I just voted yes because I wanted us to have the ability to implement things we wanted.

  16. Doesn’t right to work immediately put you into a tax paying bracket? People who live their whole lives in the U.K. take, statically overall, as much as they put in. People who come here as adults put more in, the state hasn’t paid for education and childhood healthcare. Letting people come here and work is better for the economy than legally forcing people to remain on benefits.

  17. It’s wild that this same exact thing is happening in Canada.

    Everything you said is also true here.

  19. > Rather than the SNP encouraging rampant immigration when we already have underfunded and overstretched services and a dearth of homes for those of us who already live here, why not focus on making Scotland a sustainable green country where the focus is on quality of life and landscape rather than economic GDP?

    Immigration doesnt stretch our public services it keeps them alive.

    Immigrants had their birth and early years of healthcare paid for by another country, usually their education as well, they come to country typically straight into becoming the most productive tax payers around. If we stopped immigration then our public services would be absolutely fucked but governments and media have pretty successfully managed to convince otherwise possibly sensible people that immigration is somehow a burden on us, its insane.

    The ban on work for immigrants and asylum seekers is very much a part of the narrative to try and label them as a burden. As extremely expensive as immigrating to the UK is, the most expensive part was the ~6 months of lost wages.

  20. The wait times on benefits are nothing like she’s promised them to be and forced civil servants to massage the numbers instead of taking ownership and admitting she jumped the gun.

    It’s like having Pennywise in charge of a kids party with her at the helm.

    Edited: removing a line that might get me sued.

  21. You can’t even set toe (never mind foot) in Denmark until your asylum claim is approved and settled.

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