at this point, honestly, US better pick its battles. Better to compete with EU than have to contend with any alternative come from the authoritarian spheres.
>These proposed treaty revisions rest on three fundamental changes: the introduction of majority voting; the elimination of the veto by individual member countries, which will end the principle of unanimity; and limiting the number of EU commissioners
many countries will need refernda and wouldnt bet on them passing
OP has already had this removed for editorializing and pushing an agenda.
He seems to be under the impression that this isn’t the opinion of one writer.
As the article even states, the author wrote this because the US is either indifferent or supporting of it and the author disagrees.
I’m sure the Internet Research Agency will ask him to keep spamming this though.
Isn’t in anyone’s interest… expect ours. That’s the entire point, let’s stop being everyone else’s bitch. Rise up like ants instead of lone sheep waiting for the wolves to pray.
It isn’t in anyone’s interest except for politicians and bureaucrats.
Hang on…..*was* the UK really the dominant EU member state prior to Brexit? Hmmm. (Whatever about that, resolute resistance to greatly increased defence expenditure, as demanded by a non-EU nation, is the way to go as far as I’m concerned)
not in most europeans interest either
europhiles like to think that their federal eu would resemble the usa
in reality it would be an ethnically and culturally disjointed mess with diverging interests and more unwilling than willing members
it would be more akin to the late roman empire than the usa except without the things that made the roman empire good like cool uniforms and expansionism
>Andrew A. Michta is senior fellow and director of the Scowcroft Strategy Initiative at the Atlantic Council of the United States. Views expressed here are his own.
This is a personal view of one US analyst based on the assumption that federalisation of the EU is gonna happen. To my knowledge, the EU has no official plan to push the federalisation and if this even happens, countries will need a referendum. If this happens, it could backfire the Brussels as there are many countries where trust in national governments is far bigger than in the EU and the EU could cripple itself.
Long term is will be in americas interest because in the economic battle between India, China, african states lile Nigeria and the global south, a strong Europe is the only chance to maintain a western dominance in values and regulation.
Lol fuck the USA national interest oh my god!! It’s our continent why should they design it from an ocean away. I swear I’m becoming more French by the day….
Let’s get to the point where Europeans think that it’s in their interest first.
Good thing I don’t give a flying fuck about what America thinks about anything.
Pozdrawiam z Amerykaninem w Polsce.
I would love to have a EU federation!
US would have a stronger ally like this.
This is argued from the perspective of the US as guarantor of security of Europe. Which they are. But federalization will factually stop this (or there will not be federalization) with a European pillar of NATO of equal importance.
It isn’t in European either. Unless you somehow believe this juggernaut of all different cultural, administrative, institutional and political traditions and factions is going to work in a coherent way within the same system. Instead of spectacularly collapsing under its own weight.
Even the current integration level is creating a lot of friction, and it’s more and more controversial for all sorts of parties across EU – i can’t really imagine federalist idea working anyhow. Not now, maybe someday.
This is such a funny line (and revealing of the author’s ideological lens):
> The scope of these proposed changes would be comparable to the U.S. eliminating the Electoral College and shifting its electoral processes to simple majority voting, effectively allowing the country’s largest states to drive its politics unhindered.
Like:
1. No, EU federalization would be a much bigger deal than that. It would be much closer to the U.S. dropping the Articles of Confederation for the Constitution.
2. Without commenting from the outside on whether y’all *should* federalize… dear god if you do, learn from our example and don’t do bs like the EC and Senate lol. Like I recognize some amount is needed to get countries to agree but try to limit it cause it’ll cause some absolute bullshit 300 years down the line 😂
More generally (and again I want to preface that the lens of American priorities is really irrelevant here), I think the author misses that even if a federalized EU is somewhat less hawkish on Russia than Poland, it would be a far more capable actor than Poland is. Even the least hawkish federalized wouldn’t be okay with Russia invading its territory or invading its neighbors, and it would have far more resources to throw at the problem.
In other words, “resources devoted to Russia” currently looks something like this (completely made up numbers to demonstrate a point):
Bordering Nations GDP * 4% + EU GDP * .2% + Non-bordering Nations GDP * 1%
In a federalized EU, it might look something like this:
EU GDP * 2%
And that’s… much more resources devoted to the problem lol
I wouldn’t want it either. Europe already bosses nations around. Soon my culture will be gone because Europe wanted all those immigrants. A lot of skilled craftsmanship disappears because natives cant compete with other eu countries. EU has been misery for culture…
I mean Id be happy with it. A strong America and a strong EU as the 2 hegemons constantly pushing each other to do better would be good for this world.
The question is less if it’s in Americas interest and more who
As in, who asked? The europeans don’t really care, so he is obviously seeking attention, a trait commonly associated with fatherless behaviour. It is clear that the write of this article needs to touch grass and spend time with some bitches
This is the personal opinion of a single analyst, let’s not act as though this is some widely shared opinion by the American foreign policy intelligentsia
Its just one persons opinion, one I happen to disagree with. The western nations will increasingly need to stick together in the long run despite some competing interests. A stronger and more unified Europe ultimately benefits us and I don’t see Europe becoming so strong that they no longer need America as the author argues.
>If implemented, these changes will radically realign power in the EU, concentrating it in Berlin and Paris, as the largest countries will essentially be able to impose their wills on the bloc at large. The scope of these proposed changes would be comparable to the U.S. eliminating the Electoral College and shifting its electoral processes to simple majority voting, effectively allowing the country’s largest states to drive its politics unhindered.
Complete nonsense. The author himself just pointed out how the US was able to prevent this from happening there is no reason to think Europe can’t do the same.
Either way, what is in the interest of America matters little when Europe itself has yet to decide that a Federalized EU is in its own interest. The proposed changes are not even close to that.
Stop pushing filthy agendas
Michta is such blatant example of late stage right-wing polonus from US, infecting Polish IR/Defence discourse with his America first shit, which polish far right still loves to hear about like we were a fucking state of the US.
Polish Yt is flooded with brainless takes of this guy.
I’ve never seen him making any sense whatsoever, not even once, that wasn’t dominated with scaremongering,warmongering, blatantly lobbing for US intrests/MIC,or using polish complex against ill informed masses here.
Analyst my ass,he is such a poor attempt at being lobbist, it hurts my eyes, if I remember correctly he tried to convince in his polish vids that he is working for state dep. like that information supposed to make his shit takes credible.
He is Anti-EU trumpist shill nothing else.
It always depends on how this federation will look like. But if Europe is able to defend itself and deal with Russia that would mean the US could focus more on Asia. I don’t see how they don’t profit from this. Hell, even Trump told us to be more self reliant.
I don’t think anything like United States of Europe is possible anymore. EU has grabbed too much power over national affairs and they will never give it up. States in the US have more independent freedom over their laws than countries in the EU. Funnily enough, EU doesn’t have power over federal level things like military.
It makes total Sense. Economic, social and in many other senses. People were fed nationalistic constructions which were mostly out forward in the 19th century. People don’t realize that Europe has always been this dynamic mess, but we all have much more in common than imagine.
The national state is terrible outdated. To large to relate to, in a meaningful way. To small to make a difference and protect its people from global companies.
Americans honestly don’t care that much about it I have gathered
Most people in America do not care if Europe Federalizes. The question is not if Americans like myself want Europe to Federalize, but if it is something that Europeans collectively desire and would be willing to commit to with all of the complexities that come with it.
>The scope of these proposed changes would be comparable to the U.S. eliminating the Electoral College and shifting its electoral processes to simple majority voting, effectively allowing the country’s largest states to drive its politics unhindered.
Just a few paragraphs in and it’s already clear the author is a dumb-dumb.
That’s the best argument in favour of a federalized Europe. The best way to convince everyone!
I don’t really want a federalized Europe. It would certainly make us stronger against Russia and the US in the short term, but it would also increase the rate at which the EU heads toward its inevitable collapse, which would leave us all much weaker in the long run.
This is one persons opinion. And in his opinion, he basically says the US government doesn’t GAF. Judging from the OPs comments, he is trying to make this opinion article an official US government stance which it isn’t. Quite shady if you ask me.
Weird how in this sub, opinion articles and politico will get trashed when it says something this sub doesn’t like. But the second an opinion article from politico goes with their own opinion, suddenly there is no problem, and let’s just group all of the US in with it while we are at it.
99 percent of Americans don’t care actually. Europeans can do whatever they want, we got our own things going on.
Why Europe cares about what the US interests are before itself?
I think people assume we will need some revolutionary step in order to achieve this but I don’t think it’s necessarily true. Think about how much closer we are to each other today compared to 2003, in so many aspects. I say let this trend of harmonization and cooperation evolve further and in another 20 years we will have even more progress on the issue. In the end, a “federal Europe” would be extremely messy to force, we should let it grow slowly instead for best results, water it and care for it like a sunflower and it will grow tall. Just my two cents
Thank you USA.
No seriously, I’d like not to be gouverned by the next foreign empire taking our land and tearing us into their bullsh*t. We already had enough of this in our history. Never again.
I’m all in for the EU and its modes of coorperation but there is no “benefit” a federation would bring me or my people that would convince me to give up my nation or that is/can already be fullfilled by the current EU or NATO.
Neither it is in most european countries intrest.
Nor in Europe interest.
It’s none of their business.
If this were to ever happen, I’d move.
It’s not even in European countries’ interest. The EU is already too powerful and controlling of member states.
We need the European Union to keep the peace between the members and to maintain a political and economic strength to keep the USA, China, India and Russia in check.
Or Europeans interest…
The ultimate pipe dream.
I’m sorry tired of hearing about this shit.
I like my Norway truly sovereign and independent, we’ve tried(by force, thx Sweden and Denmark) to be a part of bigger political entities and it didn’t work out so well for us.
People compare it to the US but it would most likely just resemble the USSR. Is that something we really need a sequel to?
If the EU can’t even agree on the most basic of ideas from immigration to LGBT ideology, it’s not gonna work as a proper federation. It will break apart at the seams.
It’s not in anybody’s interest apart from the 1% of the richest … a union of nations not some supposed “super country” of federalised states. Crazy shit…..
47 comments
at this point, honestly, US better pick its battles. Better to compete with EU than have to contend with any alternative come from the authoritarian spheres.
>These proposed treaty revisions rest on three fundamental changes: the introduction of majority voting; the elimination of the veto by individual member countries, which will end the principle of unanimity; and limiting the number of EU commissioners
many countries will need refernda and wouldnt bet on them passing
OP has already had this removed for editorializing and pushing an agenda.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/180d772/it_doesnt_get_any_more_blunt_that_a_direct/ka504fy/
He seems to be under the impression that this isn’t the opinion of one writer.
As the article even states, the author wrote this because the US is either indifferent or supporting of it and the author disagrees.
I’m sure the Internet Research Agency will ask him to keep spamming this though.
Isn’t in anyone’s interest… expect ours. That’s the entire point, let’s stop being everyone else’s bitch. Rise up like ants instead of lone sheep waiting for the wolves to pray.
It isn’t in anyone’s interest except for politicians and bureaucrats.
Hang on…..*was* the UK really the dominant EU member state prior to Brexit? Hmmm. (Whatever about that, resolute resistance to greatly increased defence expenditure, as demanded by a non-EU nation, is the way to go as far as I’m concerned)
not in most europeans interest either
europhiles like to think that their federal eu would resemble the usa
in reality it would be an ethnically and culturally disjointed mess with diverging interests and more unwilling than willing members
it would be more akin to the late roman empire than the usa except without the things that made the roman empire good like cool uniforms and expansionism
>Andrew A. Michta is senior fellow and director of the Scowcroft Strategy Initiative at the Atlantic Council of the United States. Views expressed here are his own.
This is a personal view of one US analyst based on the assumption that federalisation of the EU is gonna happen. To my knowledge, the EU has no official plan to push the federalisation and if this even happens, countries will need a referendum. If this happens, it could backfire the Brussels as there are many countries where trust in national governments is far bigger than in the EU and the EU could cripple itself.
Long term is will be in americas interest because in the economic battle between India, China, african states lile Nigeria and the global south, a strong Europe is the only chance to maintain a western dominance in values and regulation.
Lol fuck the USA national interest oh my god!! It’s our continent why should they design it from an ocean away. I swear I’m becoming more French by the day….
Let’s get to the point where Europeans think that it’s in their interest first.
Good thing I don’t give a flying fuck about what America thinks about anything.
Pozdrawiam z Amerykaninem w Polsce.
I would love to have a EU federation!
US would have a stronger ally like this.
This is argued from the perspective of the US as guarantor of security of Europe. Which they are. But federalization will factually stop this (or there will not be federalization) with a European pillar of NATO of equal importance.
It isn’t in European either. Unless you somehow believe this juggernaut of all different cultural, administrative, institutional and political traditions and factions is going to work in a coherent way within the same system. Instead of spectacularly collapsing under its own weight.
Even the current integration level is creating a lot of friction, and it’s more and more controversial for all sorts of parties across EU – i can’t really imagine federalist idea working anyhow. Not now, maybe someday.
This is such a funny line (and revealing of the author’s ideological lens):
> The scope of these proposed changes would be comparable to the U.S. eliminating the Electoral College and shifting its electoral processes to simple majority voting, effectively allowing the country’s largest states to drive its politics unhindered.
Like:
1. No, EU federalization would be a much bigger deal than that. It would be much closer to the U.S. dropping the Articles of Confederation for the Constitution.
2. Without commenting from the outside on whether y’all *should* federalize… dear god if you do, learn from our example and don’t do bs like the EC and Senate lol. Like I recognize some amount is needed to get countries to agree but try to limit it cause it’ll cause some absolute bullshit 300 years down the line 😂
More generally (and again I want to preface that the lens of American priorities is really irrelevant here), I think the author misses that even if a federalized EU is somewhat less hawkish on Russia than Poland, it would be a far more capable actor than Poland is. Even the least hawkish federalized wouldn’t be okay with Russia invading its territory or invading its neighbors, and it would have far more resources to throw at the problem.
In other words, “resources devoted to Russia” currently looks something like this (completely made up numbers to demonstrate a point):
Bordering Nations GDP * 4% + EU GDP * .2% + Non-bordering Nations GDP * 1%
In a federalized EU, it might look something like this:
EU GDP * 2%
And that’s… much more resources devoted to the problem lol
I wouldn’t want it either. Europe already bosses nations around. Soon my culture will be gone because Europe wanted all those immigrants. A lot of skilled craftsmanship disappears because natives cant compete with other eu countries. EU has been misery for culture…
I mean Id be happy with it. A strong America and a strong EU as the 2 hegemons constantly pushing each other to do better would be good for this world.
The question is less if it’s in Americas interest and more who
As in, who asked? The europeans don’t really care, so he is obviously seeking attention, a trait commonly associated with fatherless behaviour. It is clear that the write of this article needs to touch grass and spend time with some bitches
This is the personal opinion of a single analyst, let’s not act as though this is some widely shared opinion by the American foreign policy intelligentsia
Its just one persons opinion, one I happen to disagree with. The western nations will increasingly need to stick together in the long run despite some competing interests. A stronger and more unified Europe ultimately benefits us and I don’t see Europe becoming so strong that they no longer need America as the author argues.
>If implemented, these changes will radically realign power in the EU, concentrating it in Berlin and Paris, as the largest countries will essentially be able to impose their wills on the bloc at large. The scope of these proposed changes would be comparable to the U.S. eliminating the Electoral College and shifting its electoral processes to simple majority voting, effectively allowing the country’s largest states to drive its politics unhindered.
Complete nonsense. The author himself just pointed out how the US was able to prevent this from happening there is no reason to think Europe can’t do the same.
Either way, what is in the interest of America matters little when Europe itself has yet to decide that a Federalized EU is in its own interest. The proposed changes are not even close to that.
Stop pushing filthy agendas
Michta is such blatant example of late stage right-wing polonus from US, infecting Polish IR/Defence discourse with his America first shit, which polish far right still loves to hear about like we were a fucking state of the US.
Polish Yt is flooded with brainless takes of this guy.
I’ve never seen him making any sense whatsoever, not even once, that wasn’t dominated with scaremongering,warmongering, blatantly lobbing for US intrests/MIC,or using polish complex against ill informed masses here.
Analyst my ass,he is such a poor attempt at being lobbist, it hurts my eyes, if I remember correctly he tried to convince in his polish vids that he is working for state dep. like that information supposed to make his shit takes credible.
He is Anti-EU trumpist shill nothing else.
And in non-opinion article land the [US is pleased with Poland integrating more with the EU](https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/11/17/us-happy-that-incoming-polish-government-will-improve-relations-with-eu-says-ambassador/).
It always depends on how this federation will look like. But if Europe is able to defend itself and deal with Russia that would mean the US could focus more on Asia. I don’t see how they don’t profit from this. Hell, even Trump told us to be more self reliant.
I don’t think anything like United States of Europe is possible anymore. EU has grabbed too much power over national affairs and they will never give it up. States in the US have more independent freedom over their laws than countries in the EU. Funnily enough, EU doesn’t have power over federal level things like military.
It makes total Sense. Economic, social and in many other senses. People were fed nationalistic constructions which were mostly out forward in the 19th century. People don’t realize that Europe has always been this dynamic mess, but we all have much more in common than imagine.
The national state is terrible outdated. To large to relate to, in a meaningful way. To small to make a difference and protect its people from global companies.
Americans honestly don’t care that much about it I have gathered
Most people in America do not care if Europe Federalizes. The question is not if Americans like myself want Europe to Federalize, but if it is something that Europeans collectively desire and would be willing to commit to with all of the complexities that come with it.
>The scope of these proposed changes would be comparable to the U.S. eliminating the Electoral College and shifting its electoral processes to simple majority voting, effectively allowing the country’s largest states to drive its politics unhindered.
Just a few paragraphs in and it’s already clear the author is a dumb-dumb.
That’s the best argument in favour of a federalized Europe. The best way to convince everyone!
I don’t really want a federalized Europe. It would certainly make us stronger against Russia and the US in the short term, but it would also increase the rate at which the EU heads toward its inevitable collapse, which would leave us all much weaker in the long run.
This is one persons opinion. And in his opinion, he basically says the US government doesn’t GAF. Judging from the OPs comments, he is trying to make this opinion article an official US government stance which it isn’t. Quite shady if you ask me.
Weird how in this sub, opinion articles and politico will get trashed when it says something this sub doesn’t like. But the second an opinion article from politico goes with their own opinion, suddenly there is no problem, and let’s just group all of the US in with it while we are at it.
99 percent of Americans don’t care actually. Europeans can do whatever they want, we got our own things going on.
Why Europe cares about what the US interests are before itself?
I think people assume we will need some revolutionary step in order to achieve this but I don’t think it’s necessarily true. Think about how much closer we are to each other today compared to 2003, in so many aspects. I say let this trend of harmonization and cooperation evolve further and in another 20 years we will have even more progress on the issue. In the end, a “federal Europe” would be extremely messy to force, we should let it grow slowly instead for best results, water it and care for it like a sunflower and it will grow tall. Just my two cents
Thank you USA.
No seriously, I’d like not to be gouverned by the next foreign empire taking our land and tearing us into their bullsh*t. We already had enough of this in our history. Never again.
I’m all in for the EU and its modes of coorperation but there is no “benefit” a federation would bring me or my people that would convince me to give up my nation or that is/can already be fullfilled by the current EU or NATO.
Neither it is in most european countries intrest.
Nor in Europe interest.
It’s none of their business.
If this were to ever happen, I’d move.
It’s not even in European countries’ interest. The EU is already too powerful and controlling of member states.
We need the European Union to keep the peace between the members and to maintain a political and economic strength to keep the USA, China, India and Russia in check.
Or Europeans interest…
The ultimate pipe dream.
I’m sorry tired of hearing about this shit.
I like my Norway truly sovereign and independent, we’ve tried(by force, thx Sweden and Denmark) to be a part of bigger political entities and it didn’t work out so well for us.
People compare it to the US but it would most likely just resemble the USSR. Is that something we really need a sequel to?
If the EU can’t even agree on the most basic of ideas from immigration to LGBT ideology, it’s not gonna work as a proper federation. It will break apart at the seams.
It’s not in anybody’s interest apart from the 1% of the richest … a union of nations not some supposed “super country” of federalised states. Crazy shit…..