New: Alba party is calling for a referendum to be held on September 19 next year. Not on independence – but on whether or not Holyrood should have the powers to negotiate and legislate for ending the Union.

11 comments

1. > Salmond also says he’s confident the proposal would be within Holyrood competence: it was his Plan B in 2012 should David Cameron refuse a referendum

   https://fxtwitter.com/libby_brooks/status/1730175145841439025?t=GDNsSvITbGujI1pzf3Lx_w&s=19

   cant stand Salmond but this is a great idea – a referendum on a referendum. sounds silly, but its a clever ploy.

   Reckon the SNP would do well, to adopt this as policy, though i’m less sure about the timing.

2. If this gets rejected by Westminster, we can have a referendum on whether or not we should have a referendum on whether or not we should have the powers to have a referendum on independence.

3. I’m not sure that could work, as the Scottish Parliament has no way of making that happen, meaning therefore it would relate to reserved matters.

   With the supreme court ruling, they ruled ruled that even if a referendum had “no immediate legal consequences” it would still “be a political event with important political consequences”

   >”It is therefore clear that the proposed Bill has more than a loose or consequential connection with the reserved matters of the Union of Scotland and England and the sovereignty of the United Kingdom Parliament.”

   https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/supreme-court-judgment-on-scottish-independence-referendum/

   I feel the same could be applied to this? I’m no legal expert, though, so I wonder if there’s been any commentary on this. It’s an interesting idea.

4. Does nothing to generate UK Government recognition or consent.

   There is no magical constitutional wheeze to sidestep Westminster saying “lol no fuck off.”

   Might as well have a referendum on having a game of “forky spoony” on having a game of “bag or shaft” on whether Holyrood should have the power to legislate on independence.

5. at least salmond could admit this sort of debate would have set better precedents for future independence campaigns in 2014 than david cameron just handing out referendums because certain parties made him nervous.

6. I’m all for it, as long as there is a further option on the ballot:

   To formally declare devolution a failure, and the closure of Holyrood.

7. It highlights the issue that there is no democratic mechanism for Scots to achieve or even express their desire for independence, the UK government refuses to allow it.

   Unionists keep saying ” there’s no appetite” based on biased/unofficial polling of small subsets of Scots. The best way to show there is an appetite , is through a vote like this.

   Then their position becomes “we’ve seen the evidence, fuck your democracy”.

   You could argue they’ve been doing that since 2015 by refusing to acknowledge pro independence election wins as an appetite for independence , they hand waive it away by saying “people vote for THE pro independence party for a number of reasons”.

   This would be a result they can’t hand waive so easily.

8. If the union was voluntary, why would you need Westminsters permission…

9. Big Salmontiè fancy another bask in the lime light, has RTV dried up.

10. Not sure of the idea itself but politically this is hilarious. Either the SNP have to back a bill being brought by an MSP who just defected from their party or they have to give a reason why they think a referendum to expand the Scottish Parliament’s powers to include calling an independence referendum is a bad idea.

11. A referendum on a referendum! What a genius idea. A tremendous loss for the SNP that this moon howler defected to ABLA.