The Polish side did allow humanitarian aid and military aid trough, but recently something changed as the Konfederacja party members started boasting about blocking a boat that was headed to the Kherson.
The EU Commission once again failed in its duty to defend shipping companies in central and eastern Europe by giving privileges to Ukrainians similarly as they did in case of grain imports. It was wrong and politically-disastrous decision which guaranteed division. Or perhaps that was the whole point to create discord between Ukrainians and Poles.
Poland was the very first country to help Ukraine. It gave with both hands, and it gave all it could. When the hands, inevitably, were emptied, Ukraine started biting the hands and then insulted Poland on the biggest international forum.
[deleted]
Still find it amazing how Poland is threatened by a trucking fleet one tenth of its size.
Hate me if you want but this once more shows how over reliance on trucks is like poison for logistics. Just give me a robust rail network and then we’ll be better off by far.
I remember not that long ago reddit was flooded with Poles demanding that Germany immediately turn off its gas supply from Russia, regardless how it hurt.
Now Polish truckers are economically impacted because of support for Ukraine, and *for some reason* the real issue is that Poland’s companies are not being defended from Ukraine lol.
The main problem is Ukrainian queuing system. There was a moment that few hundred Polish trucks was randomly removed from queue. In this time some Ukrainan companies was not subjected to this system, and just drove. If truck don’t leveve Ukraine in 20 days, there is a fine 5k €. This system is corruptive when double standards are applied to a select few.
The mechanism for protecting the European Common Market does not work in this case and it is a great failure. There is currently no government in Poland to look after this interest, but with more countries involved, there is more will to solve it.
As a Pole, I find these protests very disheartening. Don’t get me wrong, there are good reasons to sympathize with the truckers, but Ukraine is fighting a war with a country that is literally our worst enemy, and by doing this, we are basically helping that very enemy. If Ukraine loses the war, we also lose in the long run, and in a much more serious way than the damage done to our economy from this dispute (or the similar grain dispute).
I don’t know what the solution to this particular problem is, but at a bare minimum, I think these protests should be held in front of government institutions and not at the border itself. Make life difficult for the politicians you think are responsible in Poland or the wider EU and not for Ukraine.
Protest is organized by politician of pro-Russian Konfederacja. It seems that Russians found some support among Slovaks as well.
Impact of Ukrainian freight on Polish market is marginal and entire problem is overexaggerated.
Indeed, there are some vaild issues to resolve (like corruption among Ukrainian officials and adjustment to European regulations for truckers), but main purpose of this commotion is to create mayhem in Polish-Ukrainian relations.
Poland is during government transition, Russians are definitely exploiting this situation.
Poland needs to give their head a wobble and send the military to clear the road. Ukraine falls Putin is on your border.
No shit.
Lol, it very funny how many people jumping on the whole “oh EU made a decision to fuck Poland, and greedy Ukrainians are stealing food from poor Polish truckers” without actually looking at the protest demands and especially and the reality of the situation on the ground at all.
The thing is – since the beginning of the invasion the entire Ukrainian logistics was re-oriented through Poland. On which Polish logistic companies, ports, warehouse made a ton of money. Shipping a container through the port of Odesa cost around 500 – 700 USD before the war. Doing it through Poland costs around 1500 USD at least. Where do you think the money is going? It’s going to Polish logistic service companies. Arguing the whole “Poland lost a lot of money” on this is just absolute bullshit.
“Greedy Ukrainians are coming in and taking Polish jobs” – Ukrainian trucker fleet is fucking tiny in comparison to Polish one. Moreover, cabotage is still not legal for Ukrainian truckers, which I think most people don’t seem to realize. Ukrainian truckers can legally export things out of Ukraine and import things into Ukraine, nothing else. And due to the fact that that traffic has increased significantly, well, it pisses off some Polish truckers who did not get a slice of the pie.
Also I find it fucking amazing how everyone buys the “they are just removing Polish trucker from e-queue system”, and when asked tf system is that, it turns out it’s – Shlyah. You know, a system which allows Ukrainian companies to register their draft-aged drivers so they can leave the country due to marshal law. Why the fuck would Polish companies need access to that?
And this whole narrative of “greedy Ukrainians are simply too greedy while generous Poles are practically giving them everything they have” narrative is so fucking bullshit, come on. Poland is one of the biggest net beneficiaries of Russian invasion of Ukraine. Millions of work age Ukrainians are now living in Poland, starting businesses, paying taxes. It doesn’t mean that we are not thankful to Poland, but it’s so tiring to see the same dumb shit being constantly repeated by people, including on this sub.
Can we all fucking calm down and ease up with reckless accusations?
how the turntables have turned; it was the polish truckers that undercut western european truckers back in the 90s
Polish carries were fucking up price of transports forever in whole EU and now they come crying when somebody can do it even cheaper is joke.
I think this issue is being blown out out of proportions tbh. And I don’t like how it’s being portrayed as “Poland” blocking the border when it’s private trucking operators organizing by themselves with permit from the court till like February 2024 to protest. What do you expect us to do, shoot at them, jail them when they do it completely legally? Or maybe you want us to completely remove the possibility to strike by anyone entirely? Overall logistic companies in Poland are doing fine, it’s just some % that was focused on eastern markets like Ukraine/Belarus/Russia that are a minority that got fucked over. Ukraine not being an EU member got PRIVILEGE to operate in EU markets without permits like before the war when there was limit of 200k permit for drivers from Ukraine to operate in EU market, now this number grew to 900k drivers with companies in Ukraine buying out used trucks from Poland in masses. The issue here is that Polish truckers, being registered in Poland have to abide to EU regulations like driver working time, standards etc. meanwhile in Ukraine that got unlimited access companies don’t have to abide to shit. Also it’s not a secret that Ukrainian males are dodging the draft in masses by becoming truck drivers that are left out from draft list, meaning they work fot half free only to dodge the draft. Also, there is an electric queue system on the border on Ukrainian side that ONLY Ukrainian companies can register in while Polish/EU companies have to wait weeks in physical queues. The result is that Ukrainian company can do a transport in/out of Ukraine at as low as 0,60 euro/km while Polish can only manage minimum of 1,1/1,2 euro/km.
17 comments
The Polish side did allow humanitarian aid and military aid trough, but recently something changed as the Konfederacja party members started boasting about blocking a boat that was headed to the Kherson.
The EU Commission once again failed in its duty to defend shipping companies in central and eastern Europe by giving privileges to Ukrainians similarly as they did in case of grain imports. It was wrong and politically-disastrous decision which guaranteed division. Or perhaps that was the whole point to create discord between Ukrainians and Poles.
Poland was the very first country to help Ukraine. It gave with both hands, and it gave all it could. When the hands, inevitably, were emptied, Ukraine started biting the hands and then insulted Poland on the biggest international forum.
[deleted]
Still find it amazing how Poland is threatened by a trucking fleet one tenth of its size.
Hate me if you want but this once more shows how over reliance on trucks is like poison for logistics. Just give me a robust rail network and then we’ll be better off by far.
I remember not that long ago reddit was flooded with Poles demanding that Germany immediately turn off its gas supply from Russia, regardless how it hurt.
Now Polish truckers are economically impacted because of support for Ukraine, and *for some reason* the real issue is that Poland’s companies are not being defended from Ukraine lol.
Not only Polish truckers now.
[https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/slovak-truckers-block-ukraine-crossing-joining-polish-protests-2023-11-29/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/slovak-truckers-block-ukraine-crossing-joining-polish-protests-2023-11-29/)
The main problem is Ukrainian queuing system. There was a moment that few hundred Polish trucks was randomly removed from queue. In this time some Ukrainan companies was not subjected to this system, and just drove. If truck don’t leveve Ukraine in 20 days, there is a fine 5k €. This system is corruptive when double standards are applied to a select few.
The mechanism for protecting the European Common Market does not work in this case and it is a great failure. There is currently no government in Poland to look after this interest, but with more countries involved, there is more will to solve it.
As a Pole, I find these protests very disheartening. Don’t get me wrong, there are good reasons to sympathize with the truckers, but Ukraine is fighting a war with a country that is literally our worst enemy, and by doing this, we are basically helping that very enemy. If Ukraine loses the war, we also lose in the long run, and in a much more serious way than the damage done to our economy from this dispute (or the similar grain dispute).
I don’t know what the solution to this particular problem is, but at a bare minimum, I think these protests should be held in front of government institutions and not at the border itself. Make life difficult for the politicians you think are responsible in Poland or the wider EU and not for Ukraine.
Protest is organized by politician of pro-Russian Konfederacja. It seems that Russians found some support among Slovaks as well.
Impact of Ukrainian freight on Polish market is marginal and entire problem is overexaggerated.
Indeed, there are some vaild issues to resolve (like corruption among Ukrainian officials and adjustment to European regulations for truckers), but main purpose of this commotion is to create mayhem in Polish-Ukrainian relations.
Poland is during government transition, Russians are definitely exploiting this situation.
Poland needs to give their head a wobble and send the military to clear the road. Ukraine falls Putin is on your border.
No shit.
Lol, it very funny how many people jumping on the whole “oh EU made a decision to fuck Poland, and greedy Ukrainians are stealing food from poor Polish truckers” without actually looking at the protest demands and especially and the reality of the situation on the ground at all.
The thing is – since the beginning of the invasion the entire Ukrainian logistics was re-oriented through Poland. On which Polish logistic companies, ports, warehouse made a ton of money. Shipping a container through the port of Odesa cost around 500 – 700 USD before the war. Doing it through Poland costs around 1500 USD at least. Where do you think the money is going? It’s going to Polish logistic service companies. Arguing the whole “Poland lost a lot of money” on this is just absolute bullshit.
“Greedy Ukrainians are coming in and taking Polish jobs” – Ukrainian trucker fleet is fucking tiny in comparison to Polish one. Moreover, cabotage is still not legal for Ukrainian truckers, which I think most people don’t seem to realize. Ukrainian truckers can legally export things out of Ukraine and import things into Ukraine, nothing else. And due to the fact that that traffic has increased significantly, well, it pisses off some Polish truckers who did not get a slice of the pie.
Also I find it fucking amazing how everyone buys the “they are just removing Polish trucker from e-queue system”, and when asked tf system is that, it turns out it’s – Shlyah. You know, a system which allows Ukrainian companies to register their draft-aged drivers so they can leave the country due to marshal law. Why the fuck would Polish companies need access to that?
And this whole narrative of “greedy Ukrainians are simply too greedy while generous Poles are practically giving them everything they have” narrative is so fucking bullshit, come on. Poland is one of the biggest net beneficiaries of Russian invasion of Ukraine. Millions of work age Ukrainians are now living in Poland, starting businesses, paying taxes. It doesn’t mean that we are not thankful to Poland, but it’s so tiring to see the same dumb shit being constantly repeated by people, including on this sub.
Can we all fucking calm down and ease up with reckless accusations?
how the turntables have turned; it was the polish truckers that undercut western european truckers back in the 90s
Polish carries were fucking up price of transports forever in whole EU and now they come crying when somebody can do it even cheaper is joke.
I think this issue is being blown out out of proportions tbh. And I don’t like how it’s being portrayed as “Poland” blocking the border when it’s private trucking operators organizing by themselves with permit from the court till like February 2024 to protest. What do you expect us to do, shoot at them, jail them when they do it completely legally? Or maybe you want us to completely remove the possibility to strike by anyone entirely? Overall logistic companies in Poland are doing fine, it’s just some % that was focused on eastern markets like Ukraine/Belarus/Russia that are a minority that got fucked over. Ukraine not being an EU member got PRIVILEGE to operate in EU markets without permits like before the war when there was limit of 200k permit for drivers from Ukraine to operate in EU market, now this number grew to 900k drivers with companies in Ukraine buying out used trucks from Poland in masses. The issue here is that Polish truckers, being registered in Poland have to abide to EU regulations like driver working time, standards etc. meanwhile in Ukraine that got unlimited access companies don’t have to abide to shit. Also it’s not a secret that Ukrainian males are dodging the draft in masses by becoming truck drivers that are left out from draft list, meaning they work fot half free only to dodge the draft. Also, there is an electric queue system on the border on Ukrainian side that ONLY Ukrainian companies can register in while Polish/EU companies have to wait weeks in physical queues. The result is that Ukrainian company can do a transport in/out of Ukraine at as low as 0,60 euro/km while Polish can only manage minimum of 1,1/1,2 euro/km.