*From Bloomberg News reporters Natalia Drozdiak, Milda Seputyte, and Peter Martin:*
The impasse over aid from the US and Europe has Ukraine’s allies contemplating something they’ve refused to imagine since the earliest days of Russia’s invasion: that Vladimir Putin may win.
With more than $110 billion in assistance mired in political disputes in Washington and Brussels, how long Kyiv will be able to hold back Russian forces and defend Ukraine’s cities, power plants and ports against missile attacks is increasingly in question.
Beyond the potentially catastrophic consequences for Ukraine, some European allies have begun to quietly consider the impact of a failure for NATO in the biggest conflict in Europe since World War II. They’re reassessing the risks an emboldened Russia would pose to alliance members in the east, according to people familiar with the internal conversations who asked for anonymity to discuss matters that aren’t public.
The ripple effects would be felt around the world, the people said, as US partners and allies questioned just how reliable Washington’s promises of defense would be.
We already feel it. Iran mobilizing his shadow armies to launch rockets at trade ships and US bases, Venezuela creating a HoI4 level casual belli out of thin Maduro farts, China constantly getting more aggressive with its 9 dash line,
Since the US have shown that they are tired and will not stop dictators moving borders, each and every dictator that believes he can pull a Landgrab off, is doing it. Throwing the Iraqis out of Kuwait was decisive to tell wanna be Landgrabbers to drop that shitty idea. The US have shown that this is back on the table since 2014 and the next decade will just be more and more territorial conflicts.
Doesn’t matter if Ukraine is defeated as whole or the conflict freezes, land grabbing, people grabbing and people slaughtering has already been reestablished as a political tool. And since 2022 the US has not tried to make Ukraine winning, just not losing more. An Ukrainian defeat would just accelerate the return of land grabbing, but the process has already started. Only decisive reaction could turn the wheel, but currently the US is anything but decisive. Neither in Ukraine matters nor for example when their ships and commercial carriers are attacked by Iranian proxies with Iranian missiles.
sadly in the end it will just end in a permanent ceasefire like every other modern conflict, just like kosovo, cyprus, etc.
Well if you fear defeat, unstall aid!
Russia couldn’t have survived WW2 without the lend-lease from the US.
Since this became a war of attrition, ensure Ukraine has everything it needs to keep fighting with minimum personnel loss, and accelerate the Russian losses to a degree that they can no longer sustain.
End of fear.
They’ll be so weakened I’m bringing a BB gun for a solo invasion.
Russia will be mine.
Putin will win because have 150 millions overrated slaves
The latest russian advances this past week or so is not down to that period last week of ukraine aid being stopped.
Ukraine has been raising the alarm for a while now, they need more stuff. They’ve been needing more stuff for quite some time now.
I almost wish Trump wins the US elections and “pulls out” of NATO and Ukraine aid so EU finally wakes up and stops waiting for daddy USA to protect it and its allies.
We must become self reliable for our defense.
Ukrainians have the heart to fight, just give them the means.
If Russia wins, the Putin-friendly parties in Europe will be galvanized. This and the spectre of the Russian army closer to EU borders will destabilize the EU to an even worse political irrelevance and fragmentation. The West will have definitively lost its status as keeper of the world’s equilibrium, and democracy will lose credibility, as a new era of “strong leaders” will be ushered in by the new, uncertain climate.
There is more than Ukraine’s freedom at stakes here, this is about sending the message that the time of wannabe dictators moving borders with tanks is over.
If the message don’t pass, then at the very least Winnie the Pooh will escalate China’s claim on Taiwan, and who knows which other crisis, dormant for now, will boil over.
EDIT: “spectre”, not “spectrum”. Sorry.
If he wins, this means every autocracy regime out there will now know that democracies are weak and can be destroyed with force. The implications will be severe for all democracies around the world and will have long-term impact on our economical and personal freedoms security.
The stake here is higher than most people think.
If allies cant afford to support one country spilling its own blood to fight, then allies cannot afford to fight even a tiny dwarf country.
If we abandon ukraine to preserve our recessive economies, guess how much eastern europeans will trust anyone west from Czechia. There will be no love, only seething rage.
Then within 2 years we are saying the same about the next country. And we have a war against Taiwan within 2 years.
We need to make russia bleed long and hard enough untill their economic backbone is broken. So probaly until the world oil consumption starts to lower. Sad poor ukrania but that is stil a long way to go.
WTF is everyone smoking the political apparatuses?
They don’t give Ukraine support and then: What if Russia wins?
Well what the fuck would you expect? How did they not connect those two MASSIVE dots?
These defeat news comes so much and often now that it has to be somesort of tactic lol
After big ukrainian victories in 2022 west should have gone all in with aid and collapse Russian forces in Ukraine. Instead they declared victory like Bush in Iraq and started celebrating. After this and considering defeats and chaos the west has left around the world from Libya to Afganistan why should anybody believe that they are capable of turn this thing around and achieve anything from this war? I simply cannot imagine a possible way how they are capable of that. They are totaly stupid, incompetent and incapable of learning anything of their own mistakes.
It simple what will happen every nation that has the resources will push for nuclear weapons as it’s the guarantee of not being invaded by a bigger neighbour
“What if Putin wins?”
Taiwan would be next, amid a plethora of other, undesirable effects.
Putun must be laughing his arse off.
Ive said it before, Europe currently is in no economic or political position to be locked in a “forever lasting” war. Keyboard warriors can shit talk about Russia all day but its logistics that win wars, not sentiments. National economies are struggling to deal with recession and inflation.
But Russia can’t win.
EU is rich, we can _easily_ finance the defeat of Russia without even breaking a sweat. The average EU citizen would hardly notice a difference in their daily lives. However, we don’t have the weapons or the ability to produce them quickly, it will take a few years to accelerate production. However EU could buy weapons from US stockpiles and factories and ship them to Ukraine.
>What If Putin Wins?
Just two years ago everyone were 100% sure that Ukraine and the rest of the Free World will crush Russia’s imperial ambitions! What happened?
Pretty clear that there will be a negotiated peace in the next year or two
Most likely Ukraine will have to give up eastern regions while the west of the country will be fast tracked into the EU.
Not ideal obviously there are a wide range of ramifications for this, and it would have been better of Russia had bee stopped in 2014, but now seems like dividing ukraine is where things are headed.
This war has proven that Russia poses absolutely no threat to Europe. Stop trying to frighten people…
Mark my words: if/when Russia takes over Ukraine, that will mark the beginning of the end for the EU, and the end of autonomy for many of its member states. Putin is an expansionist – a colonialist, as they would’ve said back in the day. He won’t stop with Ukraine. And when Trump wins the US again next year, there will be no one powerful standing up against Putin anymore.
Post WWII Americans have been losers. Smaller countries successfully fought off their invasions
I don´t know why we in the West are holding back so much. Russia is openly antagonizing and attacking the foundation of the West. They´re attacking the rule-based world order with the support of paria states like Iran, North Korea and with a more subtle support from China. Russia wants the West to lose face. Meanwhile we´re giving away a very small percentage of what we have. In reality, we in the West are living good, we have resources to spare. Don´t believe the people in our countries that claim your government should spend money on internal problems instead. Most problems they refer to are NOT solved with money: Homelessness, addiction, mental health, immigration, family disintegration etc. are cultural problems, not lack of money problems. We have enough resources and more in the West. Let´s lay down the hammer and punch Putin in the face. What are we waiting for!? People are provoking us, mocking us. Are we gonna let that slide? Grow a damn spine.
27 comments
*From Bloomberg News reporters Natalia Drozdiak, Milda Seputyte, and Peter Martin:*
The impasse over aid from the US and Europe has Ukraine’s allies contemplating something they’ve refused to imagine since the earliest days of Russia’s invasion: that Vladimir Putin may win.
With more than $110 billion in assistance mired in political disputes in Washington and Brussels, how long Kyiv will be able to hold back Russian forces and defend Ukraine’s cities, power plants and ports against missile attacks is increasingly in question.
Beyond the potentially catastrophic consequences for Ukraine, some European allies have begun to quietly consider the impact of a failure for NATO in the biggest conflict in Europe since World War II. They’re reassessing the risks an emboldened Russia would pose to alliance members in the east, according to people familiar with the internal conversations who asked for anonymity to discuss matters that aren’t public.
The ripple effects would be felt around the world, the people said, as US partners and allies questioned just how reliable Washington’s promises of defense would be.
We already feel it. Iran mobilizing his shadow armies to launch rockets at trade ships and US bases, Venezuela creating a HoI4 level casual belli out of thin Maduro farts, China constantly getting more aggressive with its 9 dash line,
Since the US have shown that they are tired and will not stop dictators moving borders, each and every dictator that believes he can pull a Landgrab off, is doing it. Throwing the Iraqis out of Kuwait was decisive to tell wanna be Landgrabbers to drop that shitty idea. The US have shown that this is back on the table since 2014 and the next decade will just be more and more territorial conflicts.
Doesn’t matter if Ukraine is defeated as whole or the conflict freezes, land grabbing, people grabbing and people slaughtering has already been reestablished as a political tool. And since 2022 the US has not tried to make Ukraine winning, just not losing more. An Ukrainian defeat would just accelerate the return of land grabbing, but the process has already started. Only decisive reaction could turn the wheel, but currently the US is anything but decisive. Neither in Ukraine matters nor for example when their ships and commercial carriers are attacked by Iranian proxies with Iranian missiles.
sadly in the end it will just end in a permanent ceasefire like every other modern conflict, just like kosovo, cyprus, etc.
Well if you fear defeat, unstall aid!
Russia couldn’t have survived WW2 without the lend-lease from the US.
Since this became a war of attrition, ensure Ukraine has everything it needs to keep fighting with minimum personnel loss, and accelerate the Russian losses to a degree that they can no longer sustain.
End of fear.
They’ll be so weakened I’m bringing a BB gun for a solo invasion.
Russia will be mine.
Putin will win because have 150 millions overrated slaves
The latest russian advances this past week or so is not down to that period last week of ukraine aid being stopped.
Ukraine has been raising the alarm for a while now, they need more stuff. They’ve been needing more stuff for quite some time now.
I almost wish Trump wins the US elections and “pulls out” of NATO and Ukraine aid so EU finally wakes up and stops waiting for daddy USA to protect it and its allies.
We must become self reliable for our defense.
Ukrainians have the heart to fight, just give them the means.
If Russia wins, the Putin-friendly parties in Europe will be galvanized. This and the spectre of the Russian army closer to EU borders will destabilize the EU to an even worse political irrelevance and fragmentation. The West will have definitively lost its status as keeper of the world’s equilibrium, and democracy will lose credibility, as a new era of “strong leaders” will be ushered in by the new, uncertain climate.
There is more than Ukraine’s freedom at stakes here, this is about sending the message that the time of wannabe dictators moving borders with tanks is over.
If the message don’t pass, then at the very least Winnie the Pooh will escalate China’s claim on Taiwan, and who knows which other crisis, dormant for now, will boil over.
EDIT: “spectre”, not “spectrum”. Sorry.
If he wins, this means every autocracy regime out there will now know that democracies are weak and can be destroyed with force. The implications will be severe for all democracies around the world and will have long-term impact on our economical and personal freedoms security.
The stake here is higher than most people think.
If allies cant afford to support one country spilling its own blood to fight, then allies cannot afford to fight even a tiny dwarf country.
If we abandon ukraine to preserve our recessive economies, guess how much eastern europeans will trust anyone west from Czechia. There will be no love, only seething rage.
Then within 2 years we are saying the same about the next country. And we have a war against Taiwan within 2 years.
We need to make russia bleed long and hard enough untill their economic backbone is broken. So probaly until the world oil consumption starts to lower. Sad poor ukrania but that is stil a long way to go.
WTF is everyone smoking the political apparatuses?
They don’t give Ukraine support and then: What if Russia wins?
Well what the fuck would you expect? How did they not connect those two MASSIVE dots?
These defeat news comes so much and often now that it has to be somesort of tactic lol
After big ukrainian victories in 2022 west should have gone all in with aid and collapse Russian forces in Ukraine. Instead they declared victory like Bush in Iraq and started celebrating. After this and considering defeats and chaos the west has left around the world from Libya to Afganistan why should anybody believe that they are capable of turn this thing around and achieve anything from this war? I simply cannot imagine a possible way how they are capable of that. They are totaly stupid, incompetent and incapable of learning anything of their own mistakes.
It simple what will happen every nation that has the resources will push for nuclear weapons as it’s the guarantee of not being invaded by a bigger neighbour
“What if Putin wins?”
Taiwan would be next, amid a plethora of other, undesirable effects.
Putun must be laughing his arse off.
Ive said it before, Europe currently is in no economic or political position to be locked in a “forever lasting” war. Keyboard warriors can shit talk about Russia all day but its logistics that win wars, not sentiments. National economies are struggling to deal with recession and inflation.
But Russia can’t win.
EU is rich, we can _easily_ finance the defeat of Russia without even breaking a sweat. The average EU citizen would hardly notice a difference in their daily lives. However, we don’t have the weapons or the ability to produce them quickly, it will take a few years to accelerate production. However EU could buy weapons from US stockpiles and factories and ship them to Ukraine.
>What If Putin Wins?
Just two years ago everyone were 100% sure that Ukraine and the rest of the Free World will crush Russia’s imperial ambitions! What happened?
Pretty clear that there will be a negotiated peace in the next year or two
Most likely Ukraine will have to give up eastern regions while the west of the country will be fast tracked into the EU.
Not ideal obviously there are a wide range of ramifications for this, and it would have been better of Russia had bee stopped in 2014, but now seems like dividing ukraine is where things are headed.
This war has proven that Russia poses absolutely no threat to Europe. Stop trying to frighten people…
Mark my words: if/when Russia takes over Ukraine, that will mark the beginning of the end for the EU, and the end of autonomy for many of its member states. Putin is an expansionist – a colonialist, as they would’ve said back in the day. He won’t stop with Ukraine. And when Trump wins the US again next year, there will be no one powerful standing up against Putin anymore.
Post WWII Americans have been losers. Smaller countries successfully fought off their invasions
I don´t know why we in the West are holding back so much. Russia is openly antagonizing and attacking the foundation of the West. They´re attacking the rule-based world order with the support of paria states like Iran, North Korea and with a more subtle support from China. Russia wants the West to lose face. Meanwhile we´re giving away a very small percentage of what we have. In reality, we in the West are living good, we have resources to spare. Don´t believe the people in our countries that claim your government should spend money on internal problems instead. Most problems they refer to are NOT solved with money: Homelessness, addiction, mental health, immigration, family disintegration etc. are cultural problems, not lack of money problems. We have enough resources and more in the West. Let´s lay down the hammer and punch Putin in the face. What are we waiting for!? People are provoking us, mocking us. Are we gonna let that slide? Grow a damn spine.