Good. Cases with low chances to succeed should not be pursued.
Haldane’s judgement was very clear- the GRA effected reserved legislation and so was open to a S35 order.
Edit- GRR
Press distracted by the new tax rates – quick release news of a SNP defeat!
The Terfs win. What a great day for transphobia…
/s
Wonder how much this debacle has cost along with the deposit return scheme compared with their current tax rise! Just to be clear, I have not enough knowledge to have an opinion on gender reforms, just making a point on poorly thought out policy and legislation.
Truthfully it’s an impossible battle to win at this point.
Wether you agree with the bill or not Westminster over ruling it was a major slap in the face to devolution.
On the other hand legally it seems they were in their right to do so, and lastly outside of the internet I don’t think support for the gender bill is actually that high across Scotland.
It’s certainly been a sticking point for many People that would otherwise be considered left leaning.
Well, that’s it for devolution.
I’ve only skimmed this quicky but the ruling is full of phrases like
> the court should intervene only if no reasonable authority could
have been satisfied on the basis of the inquiries made that it possessed the information necessary for its decision.
> the question of which the Secretary of State required to be satisfied was whether any adverse effects could in fact be identified
> the test is not whether there was more, or other material that the Secretary of State could have taken into account
This is wording broad enough to drive two horses and a cart through:
as far as I can tell the consequence of this ruling is that should Section 35 be invoked again, Holyrood can’t request that the court rule on whether the bill in question materially impacts reserved measures, only on whether the Secretary of State has done a reasonable amount of research and come to a plausible conclusion based on that research. That’s a substantially lower bar to clear than actually persuading a judge.
Anyway, this is all exhausting. I’m tired of watching people debate whether me and my peers are a danger in prisons, or if trans kids would be a danger in schools, or if someone would fraudulantly obtain a GRC in order to do things that are as illegal with a GRC as they are without one. I’m tired of people who seem to believe that a GRC is a transgender permission slip and I’m tired of people believing that anyone would dishonestly use the GRC process in order to inflict the same paperwork difficulties upon themselves as the process is meant to alleviate for everyone else. There’s no good reason to make updating your birth certificate more difficult than updating your passport and driving license is.
I’m not sure what’s worse: believing that people truly think some of the nonsense they profess to believe about trans people online, or believing that they don’t but they’re willing to say it anyway if it hurts us.
SNP has taken legal advice and has been told this will be unwinnable.
The Scottish Parliament passes a bill – with cross-party support – to make life just a wee bit easier for a minority group
Westminster blocks it for blatantly political reasons
The Scottish Govt fights but then backs down due to the cost of fighting it
Devolution is made even more powerless
The worst people in Scotland cheer
It’s all so thoroughly depressing.
They never actually explained how it would conflict with the equality act, after years of it having it explained how it would not.
The uk’s own similar proposal was very clear in not affecting the equality act, so why would Scotland’s do so?
Says a lot about how much more transphobic we’ve become in the last 5 years.
Genuine question, not making judgments or trying to start a fight: I don’t understand why people want to change their birth certificate. In what scenario is one’s birth certificate relevant?
I could not see how section 35 applied except that the age was reduced to 16 meaning that a child born or growing up in Scotland could obtain a GRC then transfer to an English or Welsh school and be different in legal status to an otherwise identical child that had lived their whole life in England.
However it appears that Scottish courts decided that the secretary of state for Scotland had the right to invoke section 35.
I am deliberately saying that he had the right to act rather than was right to act because I think the effects are minimal and intervention was unnecessary.
Just goes to prove this was never about peoples rights and was entirely about setting the agenda of Westminster v Holyrood.
Happy to be proven wrong when the Scottish Parliament quickly tables amendments to what they’ve already passed which are compatible with UK legislation.
It goes to show that, despite the GRR bill being entirely within devolved means, Westminster can neuter any bill it ‘doesnt like’ through the S35.
Had this bill been in anyway encroaching on reserved matters then Westminster would’ve pulled a S33.
Long story short – Westminster can stop any Hollywood bill at will…and there’s nothing the entirety of Holyrood can do about it. Depressing yeah? Just makes me pissed off at the union even more.
What’s the point in devolution if a government we *didn’t* elect slaps a S.35 on what the government we *did* elect tries to do, along with opposition parties?
Surely at that point the principle of devolution is broken.
Scottish parliament now officially reduced to a consulting body, at best.
What a fucking joke.
🤐
I’m so sorry this isn’t being challenged. It has become a political pawn.
The idea that a man would ‘change’ to a woman in order to assault someone isn’t crazy, but it’s crazy that men already assault women every single day without ‘changing’.
Men don’t need to pretend to be a woman to assault women, this is the true underlying issue of any challenge on this.
Why can’t we just but out of the way people want to live their life, if they want to be he, she, they just accept their wishes.
the gender reform bill is a mess,
While it does need improving the proposed things it can let you do is too much, yes it does infringe on the rights of biological women and yes it would be too easy to change recognised gender with this bill.
19 comments
Good. Cases with low chances to succeed should not be pursued.
Haldane’s judgement was very clear- the GRA effected reserved legislation and so was open to a S35 order.
Edit- GRR
Press distracted by the new tax rates – quick release news of a SNP defeat!
The Terfs win. What a great day for transphobia…
/s
Wonder how much this debacle has cost along with the deposit return scheme compared with their current tax rise! Just to be clear, I have not enough knowledge to have an opinion on gender reforms, just making a point on poorly thought out policy and legislation.
Truthfully it’s an impossible battle to win at this point.
Wether you agree with the bill or not Westminster over ruling it was a major slap in the face to devolution.
On the other hand legally it seems they were in their right to do so, and lastly outside of the internet I don’t think support for the gender bill is actually that high across Scotland.
It’s certainly been a sticking point for many People that would otherwise be considered left leaning.
Well, that’s it for devolution.
I’ve only skimmed this quicky but the ruling is full of phrases like
> the court should intervene only if no reasonable authority could
have been satisfied on the basis of the inquiries made that it possessed the information necessary for its decision.
> the question of which the Secretary of State required to be satisfied was whether any adverse effects could in fact be identified
> the test is not whether there was more, or other material that the Secretary of State could have taken into account
This is wording broad enough to drive two horses and a cart through:
as far as I can tell the consequence of this ruling is that should Section 35 be invoked again, Holyrood can’t request that the court rule on whether the bill in question materially impacts reserved measures, only on whether the Secretary of State has done a reasonable amount of research and come to a plausible conclusion based on that research. That’s a substantially lower bar to clear than actually persuading a judge.
Anyway, this is all exhausting. I’m tired of watching people debate whether me and my peers are a danger in prisons, or if trans kids would be a danger in schools, or if someone would fraudulantly obtain a GRC in order to do things that are as illegal with a GRC as they are without one. I’m tired of people who seem to believe that a GRC is a transgender permission slip and I’m tired of people believing that anyone would dishonestly use the GRC process in order to inflict the same paperwork difficulties upon themselves as the process is meant to alleviate for everyone else. There’s no good reason to make updating your birth certificate more difficult than updating your passport and driving license is.
I’m not sure what’s worse: believing that people truly think some of the nonsense they profess to believe about trans people online, or believing that they don’t but they’re willing to say it anyway if it hurts us.
SNP has taken legal advice and has been told this will be unwinnable.
The Scottish Parliament passes a bill – with cross-party support – to make life just a wee bit easier for a minority group
Westminster blocks it for blatantly political reasons
The Scottish Govt fights but then backs down due to the cost of fighting it
Devolution is made even more powerless
The worst people in Scotland cheer
It’s all so thoroughly depressing.
They never actually explained how it would conflict with the equality act, after years of it having it explained how it would not.
The uk’s own similar proposal was very clear in not affecting the equality act, so why would Scotland’s do so?
Says a lot about how much more transphobic we’ve become in the last 5 years.
Genuine question, not making judgments or trying to start a fight: I don’t understand why people want to change their birth certificate. In what scenario is one’s birth certificate relevant?
I could not see how section 35 applied except that the age was reduced to 16 meaning that a child born or growing up in Scotland could obtain a GRC then transfer to an English or Welsh school and be different in legal status to an otherwise identical child that had lived their whole life in England.
However it appears that Scottish courts decided that the secretary of state for Scotland had the right to invoke section 35.
I am deliberately saying that he had the right to act rather than was right to act because I think the effects are minimal and intervention was unnecessary.
Just goes to prove this was never about peoples rights and was entirely about setting the agenda of Westminster v Holyrood.
Happy to be proven wrong when the Scottish Parliament quickly tables amendments to what they’ve already passed which are compatible with UK legislation.
It goes to show that, despite the GRR bill being entirely within devolved means, Westminster can neuter any bill it ‘doesnt like’ through the S35.
Had this bill been in anyway encroaching on reserved matters then Westminster would’ve pulled a S33.
Long story short – Westminster can stop any Hollywood bill at will…and there’s nothing the entirety of Holyrood can do about it. Depressing yeah? Just makes me pissed off at the union even more.
What’s the point in devolution if a government we *didn’t* elect slaps a S.35 on what the government we *did* elect tries to do, along with opposition parties?
Surely at that point the principle of devolution is broken.
Scottish parliament now officially reduced to a consulting body, at best.
What a fucking joke.
🤐
I’m so sorry this isn’t being challenged. It has become a political pawn.
The idea that a man would ‘change’ to a woman in order to assault someone isn’t crazy, but it’s crazy that men already assault women every single day without ‘changing’.
Men don’t need to pretend to be a woman to assault women, this is the true underlying issue of any challenge on this.
Why can’t we just but out of the way people want to live their life, if they want to be he, she, they just accept their wishes.
the gender reform bill is a mess,
While it does need improving the proposed things it can let you do is too much, yes it does infringe on the rights of biological women and yes it would be too easy to change recognised gender with this bill.
That’s all
[I’m sure Patrick Harvie will be resigning any minute now.](https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23409763.greens-will-quit-government-fm-fails-challenge-gender-law-veto/)