Migration to Europe: Crisis, Challenge, Chance? – An online discussion by DW Documentary

Migration to Europe: Crisis, Challenge, Chance? – An online discussion by DW Documentary

A special Welcome to our panelists for this event who I will introduce in a moment my name is Thomas Hazel I’m working as a filmmaker and editor for the documentary Department of do and I will moderate the discussion more than 260,000 migrants arrived in Europe this year more than

3,000 died trying to reach Europe in addition to the millions millions of refugees from water on Ukraine these numbers are challenging for many countries on the European continent receiving these migrants refugees Asylum Seekers and migrants go on the often dangerous Journey due to Violent conflicts political oppression poverty

Natural disasters and more and more due to the effects of climate change but the arrival of migrants triggers fears many Europeans fears that are one cause for the rise of right-wing parties and populists politicians in more and more European countries deel has AED this year a number of documentary films about

The topic migration made by filmmakers from the African continent and we will show more of these films in 2024 we want to use the opportunity to discuss the question what are the problems and challenges caused by migration at a big big scale is it Justified to speak of a migration crisis

What motivates mostly young people to go on an often dangerous Journey what are possible solutions to the challenges migration represents and are there other much more positive experts aspects to it can migration even be a chance not only for people coming to Europe but for Europe and Europeans themselves these

Are some of the questions I want to discuss with our guests those who are watching us um this evening I invited or today I invited to write us your questions to the topic but now I want to introduce uh our panelists we have the member of the European Parliament aita Cano she’s MEP

Since 2019 for the Belgian party new flamish Alliance missano was born in Bina Faso moved to the Netherlands in 2001 then to Belgium and became a Belgian citizen in 2008 in the European Parliament she is amongst other duties she has member of the committee on civil liberties Justice

And home Affairs and due to one of her duties in Parliament this evening she has to unfortunately leave us at around 6:35 we have um Miss Omi kza is she’s a film producer and director from Zimbabwe who lived and worked not only in Zimbabwe but also in Japan in Canada and

The US as well as in Europe she did a number of feature and documentary films about political issues but also the topic migration her film transactions which DW would show in the coming year portrays a family from Zimbabwe who separated because three siblings migrate um to Britain and South Africa and try

To support the family back in Zimbabwe ikou is a filmmaker from Nigeria responsible for several feature films and for the documentary film no u-turn that DW add and still shows on our YouTube channel DW documentary it is a film about a dangerous and often deadly Journey that eek went on himself

When he was 20 years old a journey from his home country Nigeria over land towards Morocco with a destination Europe we have Mr Geral Kow who is a social scientist born in Austria he studied political science philosophy and econom in England Italy and Belgium he is the chairman of the think tank

European stability initiative and is working on the topic of migration since years one of his last books about migrations called which borders do we need in 2015 2016 when more than a million refugees and Asylum Seekers came to Europe many of them from Syria he inspired former German Chancellor Angela Merkel to an

Agreement with turkey concerning Syrian refugees and last but not least we have the member of the European Parliament Eric marwad he is a member of the parliament since 2019 for the German green party with a focus on migration policy refugees and human rights he worked as a photojournalist and

Documented the situation of refugees and migrants trying to come to Europe since 2015 he witnessed the deter deterioration of the situation in Greece and in countries like Serbia and Macedonia and participated several times in rescue missions for refugees on the Mediterranean Sea briefly dll the platform you’re on is Germany’s

International broadcas and one of the most successful International media Outlets the W is broadcasting bya satellite and the internet globally in English Spanish Arabic German and many other languages my first question goes to e neou around 28 years ago you left your home country Nigeria with the aim

To reach Europe what motivated your decision back at the time and why did you turn back in the end sorry I needed to unmute myself thank you so much Thomas um my motivation was very simple I was at a place in my life where I was confused about what to do um

I was I was just 20 years old I had finished 7 years of apprenticeship and by by the Customs um of the ebo apprenticeship system I was supposed to be giving my own funds Capital to start my own business but that didn’t happen so my

Case was one of the the bad ones and there I was very young man not understanding what was going on and just um oh with the heavy burden of even the reason why I had to go into apprenticeship instead of you know fing my education um and that was because I

Needed to quickly establish myself so that I can start making money so I can help my widowed mother and my siblings you know um support my mother U to raise my siblings and now I was left with nothing and no hope of starting my own business and

Then at the same time I was aware that there were people um who were living in Europe um who were sending cars back home you know who seemed very successful and was like the kind of dream life that you know every young man wanted and then there was this story circulating around

That it was possible to travel to Europe without Visa uh and without a lot of money because you know I knew that to travel to Europe with visa and you know through plane ticket and all that was quite ensive and it wasn’t even something I could dream of at that stage

You know in fact I didn’t even have an international passport to begin with you know so it was something that was very farfetched but the idea that it was possible to make that same Journey um by Road um with little money and Novis I was quite enticing for for for me at the

Time and I thought it was it was it was it was such an adventurous thing to do but it was also something that I knew I could do um because I didn’t have any much of you know I didn’t have choices you know at that time so I just jumped on it um

And then we left and of course as soon as we got on the road you quickly realized that it wasn’t as simple as they made it sound in the stories you know um so something that was supposed to take 7 days I was already on the road for over 10 days

Going to 11 days and we hadn’t even gone far so to speak um I think it was about the 14th day that we got to Baku and when we got to Baku uh someone who was in the in the bus with us had been listening to our conversation and

Was aware that we were headed to Europe we were headed to Morocco and he literally sat us down and told us that it was quite dangerous what we were trying to do and the from moroco onwards was actually quite the dangerous part of the journey um because now you’re

Beginning to get into the desert and you know all of those craziness that happens in the desert and I thought that that was too risky for for me um yes I know I wanted to you know make money so to speak to help my family but

If I died in the process you know what good would it be to them so I decided that I wasn’t going to risk it that you know and then I decided to turn back but I couldn’t go back to Nigeria because at that time now you know news had gone out

That had gone to Europe you know um I I didn’t want to go back for the shame of the failure you know and then you know the stigmatization that comes with that kind of failure I I didn’t know how to face it so I was like I wasn’t going to

Continue but I was also not going to go back so what was I supposed to do I was also not going to be able to stay in bamaku because I couldn’t speak French and I couldn’t see how I could survive in that kind of environment so um eventually someone

Said that oh there was a place called The Gambia who was very close as well but they speak English and you know I was was like oh that sounds interesting at least where you can communicate with people you can begin to figure out how to survive and and that’s how I ended up

In Gambia and spent two years before I finally went back to Nigeria if if you look at when you did the film now two years ago you went about the same route you met a lot of young people who were also heading northwards uh do people know how

Dangerous the journey is and why do they do it anyhow so when I did it most most people didn’t know how dangerous the journey was or the journey is but right now the most like the the craziest thing is that young people actually know that it’s a

Very dangerous journey and they want to do it you know regardless and one of the most heartbreaking things that I heard you know when I was talking to people whilst I was making the film was the young man who told me that that he would rather die

Trying to get to Europe than stay back in Nigeria um and I asked him why would he say something you know like that and he told me that for him staying back in Nigeria also means death you know because he really couldn’t see how he could survive you know living in Nigeria

So for him it’s like you know I think he sees it as something more dignifying that at least even if he’s going to die let him die trying to you know better his life instead of just sitting back in Nigeria and dying as well you know and

It was just that thing keeps hunting me every time I think about it it’s just um the reason why do people do it why do people do it it’s a very it’s a question that um it’s it’s a multi-layered it requires a multi-layered answer it’s not a simple you know

Um it doesn’t it doesn’t give you a simple answer because on the surface you would say okay people do it because they looking for opportunities to self-actualize right they they feel that where they are it’s not availing them enough opportunities to actually self-actualize and the real fact nobody

Actually wants to leave the familiar you know if they everything was okay most people would stay where they are born you know within the communities where they are raised because that’s they have all the you know support and especially if you actually if you’re raised in Africa you know you’re raised in a

Communial you know environment where you get a lot of support even to today with all the colonization and everything we still you know have that communial thing where you know that no matter how bad it gets you would always see someone in the community who would support you who

Would you know invite you home for a meal or something something so naturally Africans really if they had the chance would to live wouldn’t be the first thing on anybody’s mind you know but this leads us to conversations about when we talk about migration like this

We talk about it we talk more about the symptoms because for me migration is a symptom of something deep that I feel like we’re not having that conversation you know deeply why would someone feel that where he’s born is not availing him the opportunity even with all the the the

Wealth that we know that Africa possesses for instance West Africa is the richest region in the world and and you know so when are we going to actually start having the conversations about why are the people the indigen of these countries why are they not benefiting from the wealth that

Is being extracted from their lands you know and how is the conversation of equality you know what are we doing about it because until we start to have those very deep strong conversations we will just be dancing around the symtoms you know which is migration people will always

Gravitate wherever they feel there’s a better chance that’s just the natural thing yeah we talk about this question in a moment Miss K a question to you um when you when you hear or you know about uh about the fact that so many young people are aspiring to something

Different when they go to Europe um they are searching for a better life do you think that the reaction of the European Union of the member states is adequate so far well I I think to answer your question we would need a full day uh but

I will try to uh first of all allow me to thank um e for for your for his testimony and for speaking about um his exper your experience on such a sincere way uh it’s also what will educate young people about what the reality is it’s just um it’s very important I think

There is a issue of information next to issue of Despair as well but there is above all from what we see in Europe and from what I also hear as stories that we we hear here it is there is also an issue of exploitation of a lot of young

People that are exploited and a lot of young women as well that are actually used into slavery or into prostiution and that is also a reality of migration so from the European Union’s perspective I think that as a member of Parliament that it’s not the the the the reaction

Is not the the one that is required we need to look at migration on on an holistic way first of all there is the fact that as an European union we need to have uh the capacity and the intention the motivation uh to work hard and participate to maintaining peace

Everywhere we have been EU has been quite indifferent about what was going on in the west of Africa and now you see that there is destabilization not only in the Mali like before or in part of Nigeria but also in Nija in Bina fasu and in all the neighborhood which is

Caused by a lot of groups like Isis like alqaeda that moved around and and went there we saw these movement since a long time there have not been a strategic approach to that security aspect is is a thing that has to be taken care of at a global level

Second there is the economic part I really join dyo here Dr dyo here about de Aid I think that uh Europe has been seeing Africa as if Africa was a country as if African countries were still in the 60s but right now we are in 2023 also for the African countries there is

Economic potential there are brilliant people there are opportunities that they want to to to to also cross but the the the way of um of doing policy regarding Africa remain something of the past and I really believe that we can have a partnership that can also build the

Future for everyone instead of financing corruption like the EU is doing right now which is IMM mediating and giving um a feeling of um you know it’s reducing people to to to a level that is not something that is compliant with dignity so when when when you have the EU that

Sees you all the time as someone who needs help I don’t know how it can make you feel better or how it can make you imagine that Africa can also be a better place so there is this old politics of the period of Shirak and and miton needs

To change I grew up under toas anara in Bina Faso we always believed that you need to be a proud Citizen and that you must expect something from your leader what the EU is doing right right now is not allowing people in in a lot of African country to expect action and

Hard work from their leaders it’s just blocking them from unlocking their own potential and being free in their own countries this is one thing that needs to stop and I I said several time also in debates here about the EU Africa relations and tell the last point I also

Think that we need to make sure that nobody can exploit anyone by working on legal paths for migration look at Canada is doing it in France they had a proposal about that we need to make sure that we have a possibility uh for people who are highly qualified or who have

Qualifications that we do not have here uh like there are there are jobs where you find nobody that we can have a legal way to bring them we have been working on legislations like that but it is a very very difficult situation in the EU

In the member states we need to find a way to facilitate that approach that can bring people legal it’s a win-win and regarding people who need protection we need to also Break um the taboos by allowing uh Asylum to be SE also outside the EU if we if people

Who want to seek Asylum always need the permission of um uh of um human traffickers the permission and the good willing of human traffickers to be able to seek asylum in the first place then this is not protection so we need to to be able to be creative about this I

Think we finally also need to to to invest in the development of the private sector in in African countries coming from the business sector I saw brilliant people in codir for example who were actually much more in a harway than young people I saw in the city in London

And who were speaking about millions or billions about a deal that they wanted to make in various areas we need to look at all of that otherwise I think that the EU is not only letting African countries down it shooting itself in the foot it’s shooting itself in the foot

Because at the end what is happening is that we geopolitically step out and we let China and Russia take over and we let um radical radicalized groups take over and at the end you know we are sitting here and we are going to endure the consequences of this lack of

Presence MH m Mr mwad um you are in the European Parliament as I said before since 2019 but you’re observing closely the situation of migration or or um what’s going on in the Mediterranean and in in uh at the borders of Europe let’s say um since a long time um how is your

Assessment of the of the European policy so far when it comes to migration yeah would also take a day but um actually to narrow down somehow I would say that the precondition for finding the right answers to the challenge of migration globally in Europe and also in the several member

States is that we understand the situation and to understand the situation we also have to understand the people who are migrating and I think the European policy at the moment does not really focus on the people and more taking care of like their Excel sheets

And some aims they have to I don’t know lower this number and maybe increase this number um so I think we don’t understand the complexity in several regions of the world we don’t understand for example as a said Africa we we just don’t understand it from the European

Policy point of view so we um are not able to understand the advantages of regular migration um and on the other hand finding the wrong answers to irregular migration from my point of view I found it really interesting e that you said that you met people who said just that

They rather they trying like without having any like like they’re not politically persecuted but they say um I don’t care about my life I just go this way now and I want to succeed yeah and and if you have a person like this it’s not um an easy answer to to just say

Okay then then we build a fence and this fence this person will not just say okay oh sorry sorry I tried it but now I turn around and go back to my home country they will try to at least come to Europe at a point and they will try to get

Asylum and maybe they rejected and I think what we should focus on as a European Union is um to focus a little bit more on the people and then will to succeed they they don’t want to be on this rout they don’t want to talk to human traffickers they don’t want to

Waste their lives or waste money with um Smugglers they want maybe I would say more information more education good economy and and a perspective for their lives and the lives of their children and I think um that should be the focus um especially if we want to reduce irregular migration um because there

Like the alternative to irregular migration or the possibility to decrease the number of people who irregular migrate to Europe is not to just say we want to lower the numbers and build some fances from my point of view it’s um to give alternatives to this like um dly

Pathways Mr Kow um would you say that the European policy U when it comes to migration is on the right track right now or what do you think about it you have to unmute yourself G sorry sorry uh no it’s it’s a disastrous policy we are not creating legal

Pathways it’s extremely it’s almost impossible for young gambian senales West African to travel legally to Europe it’s easier to get a scholarship to China or travel to Turkey or go to the Gulf States it’s very hard to move legally at the same time we had 28,000 people drown trying to reach Europe in

The last 10 years that is these are numbers like in a war I mean this is the deadliest Border in the world and it’s increased again this year more than 2,500 deaths at Sea I mean this is incredible at the same time we are seeing uh so less possibilities to

Travel legally from African countries resettlement the legal acceptance of refugees is collapsing around the world if there wouldn’t be the United States and Canada uh European countries basically don’t resettle refugees a handful a thousand a year to Sweden a few to Germany but that’s it so contrary

To what was said years ago in the refugee compact it’s going the wrong way and then we have Push backs at Europe’s borders the violation of the rule of law we have deals with Libya where people are taken from the water back to Libya and mistreated and the European Union is

Funding this for seven years already that’s not a bad thing that might happen it is happening already today and finally of course I mean how can I not say this as a European I’m here in Berlin but I’ve just come back from the Netherlands on the weekend and I was in

Austria last week uh the current collapse of a strategy to deal with irregular migration and have a sense of control without violating human rights which is what all Centrist parties should propose the fact that people feel in Austria in the Netherlands in France in Italy in Germany that you can’t

Reduce irregular migration which people are afraid of irrationally but they are without violating human rights creates a fantastic opportunity for far-right racist um illiberal parties so next year we’ve just seen the elections in a Netherlands number one for a real uh rabid islamophobe protin politician Leen is the most popular politician in France

The far right FPU is the most popular party in Austria the IFD in Germany is the most popular party in five of the in all the new German lender in the East um we are seeing far right politicians everywhere proposing to abolish human rights so that we control irregular

Migration so all together lots of deaths lots of suffering no legal migration no legal resettlement it’s a totally collapsed system where Europe is looking hypocritical and uh dishonest so I I urgently think we need to think about a paradigm shift I I very much like the reference to Canada we need to create

Legal Mobility for economic migrants which some European countries are aware that they need we need to create resettlement opportunities for refugees so they don’t need to risk their lives and we need a Humane policy to drastically reduce irregular migration that kills thousands of people every year in cooperation with African

Countries so to offer migration agreements where people don’t have an incentive to get into boats or cross the desert but there are opportunities to come and travel or even work legally in Europe and one last thing about the perception because we talked about lots of migration in the

World and then we mentioned Africa that 250,000 people who are crossing this year into Europe irregularly not all of them are Africans even some who cross from Africa are not Africans they are Pakistan Bangladeshi syrians and others but even if all of them would be Africans that’s

0.02% of the population of the continent that’s two out of aund of one% it’s basically from the African point of view completely insignificant numbers and for Europe it is 0.004 it’s four out of a 100 of 1% so we are talking about a phenomenon which is atic because it kills so many

People and creates fear but in terms of numbers it’s almost irrelevant to most Europeans and most Africans and that’s a complete political failure of everyone on the left on the right Refugee organizations unhcr uh I think we’ve all failed and so we live with a horrible system that will

Ex extract a very high political price in Europe that is killing people every day on that border and that stops the regular migration and exchange that we need no country in Africa has Visa free travel to Europe all countries in South America except Cuba and Bolivia have

Visa free travel to Europe we shouldn’t accept that we should work towards legal migration and legal mobility and lower the visa fee and more scholarships and an end to the deadly reality we have today Miss cessa um the majority of people from Zimbabwe is not trying to

Reach Europe go to South Africa um is the discussion there as confrontational as it is in Europe um so just some background you know Zimbabwe has a population of about 15 million and it’s estimated that four to seven million zimbabweans are um outside of the country so for us that

Kind of net migration of losing so many zimb is a it’s a huge issue and the fact that so many of them are going to South Africa has also raised a boiling point of um afrophobia or xenophobia against zimbabweans and Africans of other countries who are going into South

Africa I mean there’s this I think there’s there’s so much lack of trust that that’s existing because Colonial um hangovers from from a parts side in South Africa have has left so much power um with people had it before instead of the power going and economic power going to to to black

South Africans so zimbabweans who go there face a lot of challenges but they’re also very productive as well you know I think it was mentioned before that if Africans had the choice and things were okay in their countries their first choice would not be to immigrate to another country and um the

Majority of zimbabweans um I did Research into this before we did our film The majority are leaving for economic reasons because of a failed economy that’s failing to give you know job opportunities or or the kind of ease of doing business in the country that allows for for a free market um to

Thrive so these kind of challenges do exist but I do reiterate that if if the the situation were ameliorated we had um leadership that really pushed for policy that actually protected Our People Protected our trade and that there was more trade that happens um free trade between our countries and and safe

Migration legal routes for migration um we wouldn’t be in this situation um I will have one more question to you about your film in a minute but because Miss Gango has to go very soon I would have one last question to her maybe she has the time to answer

It can you explain how do you explain these fears and angry reactions in Europe also in the US for example when it comes to migration where does this fear come from so I would like to say that you know it’s um how to explain that um people political parties are elected by

People just R random people around who are your neighbor or you know just anyone and they have their own issues so what I observe in in in in Europe and what I hear from is that of course they are worried there is a a fear and um um questions that people have about

Migration unfortunately certain aspects that we have seen about migration have turned um migration into something negative for a lot of people I will give two examples for example there are you know a lot of people with migration migrant descent who are doing a great work who really contribute to society

Who adapt learn the language um they they respect the laws they don’t say like look my tradition or my culture is more important than the law of my new country and I see them every day you know when I was working the private so many colleagues like that but there is

Also a group of people who don’t do that what what they do here they wouldn’t even do it in the countries where they came from because nobody would accept them to do that and so when when they act like in the street for example attack the police or treat women badly

In the streets because they think that what they believe as the private religious or Traditional Values are more important than the law of the country where they live in then it creates a situation where the people that are victims of that are going to have a different opinion about about migration

And think well this is what is going to happen to me I don’t say that they are right or wrong but I say that we need to pay attention to these to these questions that they have and provide answers for example with better law enforcement I mean regardless of where

You are from if you do not respect the law you need to feel the consequences it is also like that in other countries basically when I was a teenager in Bina Faso I mean I never met someone who tried to actually U attack the police

You know just you don’t do these kind of things so I think uh when we do proper law enforcement and have better integration policies like you need to learn the language you need to comply with the laws and rules of your new country it will help you also find a job

It will help you find uh people that that can be part of your network and of your group this is going to give a much more positive uh image of of migration most people I come acrossing the street are really not against migration they’re just worried about certain issues in

Society that they come into um conflicts related to related to cultural or religious differences and we we see that and that is also a reality in Europe that we cannot um we cannot ignore of course it’s not representative of everyone who is of Migrant descent and

Um this is also something that we need to stress of course um Miss kza in your film you portray um this family and three siblings two of them go to Great Britain and one goes to South Africa and then they financially support the rest of the family how important are these um are

These financial support systems for people in Zimbabwe or maybe also in Africa well to use the example of Zimbabwe um remittances the money that’s flowing um back to families at home far out far exceeds development Aid that’s going into the country so as you can imagine about

15% GDP that’s coming in is from people who are outside and it means survival for many family members for that money to come in and it’s not unique to Zimbabwe I mean this is something that all migrant communities can relate to um in particularly in the case of my film you

Know we were able to see through the people that we engaged with that the money was really being used for for Necessities um groceries uh Health Care um school fees and um the thing that was very very sad was that not a lot of it was being used for investment and

Infrastructural things so um you have this whole generation of zimbabweans who are leaving and not um being able to really meaningfully uh invest in projects that will allow them to come back home um and this family has also showed you know through through the film I was able to

Show that you know with this family they were starting to create little projects that allowed them um to generate income so the mother started building houses that she could get tenants into to because she understood that you know she couldn’t continue to expect all of her children to keep sending money home to

Her so she was trying to find ways to generate income that would allow her to take care of all the many orphans that were in their family um and it’s been great in terms of the screenings that we’ve been doing having conversations with with other people and in their

Communities about the importance of financial literacy um and how best to to if you Migrate how best can you invest back at home so that you able to one day come back and reap the fruits of the work that you do um so it’s I think a very interesting

Conversation around migration is also about how do you frame it the conversations around people who are coming home and actually um once they’ve gone to a second country what are they coming back to achieve in their own home countries and how are they changing the culture of family Dynamics and the

Economy itself of that country what kind of skills are they bringing back into their home country once they return if they return Miss CA I just want to say a goodbye to miss Cano because I know that she has to run to to next session um the next appointment so thank you for

Joining us miss Cano and thank you very much I just wanted to make a tiny comment before I leave to what Miss kadeta said I think also we need to think about the burden on the shoulders of those who provide you know a lot of African people you know when I was

Working for BNB parba we called it among African Europeans the the family taxes so a lot of people who live in Europe cannot pay their own rent because they have to give so much money to the family and it’s for consumption it’s not for providing education or something that

Can be sustainable so at the end nobody is saved and a lot of women really you know I met women 20 years ago who were working like in the same company and today when I see them they are all uh the same age but they still speaking

About the same things so the financial literacy and the financial education you’re speaking of is really very important perhaps it’s like the macro issue of the way Europe is trying to help Africa that never worked is reduced to a micro level where one person is providing for some for the whole life

And nothing is improving and at the end it create a lot of family issues this is what I hear a lot from so many people and it’s it needs also to be to to be spoken about it’s a lot of pain out there thank you so much sorry for thank you please

Watch um Mr Kow a question again about these fears um we cannot call fears always irrational there are real fears about maybe social competition maybe different cultures Etc how do you explain that the topic migration is sometimes such a heated one in the discussions also in media uh but also in

The streets in Europe so now I am mute I hope you hear me um well let me let me take a few countries in Europe I know better U but then let me make a general Point first the general point is that countries that are immigrant societies where almost every citizen is

First second or third generation the majority is first second or third generation immigrants like Australia like Canada they are as obsessed about stopping irregular arrivals as European countries and small numbers of irregular arrivals become the dominant political issue they became for decades the do dominant issue in Australia small

Numbers of boats Canada which brings in half a million people a year this year next year the year after legally both economic migrants and refugees 50,000 a year Canada worked very hard to have an agreement with the US that the US takes back everyone who crosses irregularly so

There is something about the human psyche in all in every society I know in the world in every democracy where small numbers of irregular Rivals create a sense of loss of control which gives a a gift to populists while large numbers of regular arrivals are accepted and we saw that now with

Ukrainian refugees who could arrive legally but we also see it with a lot of Latin Americans who arrive in Spain legally and then apply for Asylum it’s not the same issue that you have with small numbers that arrive irregularly so if that is the case if we see that a

Rational policy would be one that really tries to reduce humanely irregular migration and replace it with regular exess now in Germany and I said I would talk about where I live at the moment there is another issue which is that at the moment Germany has given has more NE

Last year the net migration was the biggest in its history and it has also given more protection to refugees than at any moment since they create since 1949 since the creation of of modern Germany now most of these refugees ared legally it was Ukrainian mainly women

And children but if you take all the refugees together including last year 200 something 400 240,000 Asylum Seekers this year perhaps 300,000 Asylum Seekers the numbers Rising it creates challenges so local government has to accommodate people these challenges can be met but they are real and you need a

Social consensus because you you need to adapt things things you need more kindergartens more houses more teachers more schools and and of course you need to get used to new neighbors everywhere but if you have a sense of loss of control a sense that you you don’t

Actually have any control who and how people are coming and then you have a real challenge which you could meet with a lot of support of a lot of people in Civil Society these two things together create a toxic combination and we see it now in the response by the mainstream the the

Normal the Democratic parties which is still most of the German Parliament that are responding to this toxic combination and and and the concern by promising things which can’t be done you know they’re promising we will do mass expulsions of people who have to leave the country well this

Wouldn’t change much and it can’t really be done they’re promising to have border controls between Germany and Poland or inside the European Union which everywhere they’ve been tried they failed they are talking about the European Asylum reform which everybody who works on it knows will not reduce irregular arrivals either to Germany or

To Europe so what we have is a real challenge lots of people are coming in which could be met a fear because of a loss of control and then parties that make promises over promising uh that will not deliver and in this situation far right parties increasingly

Appear to a large part of the population as the only people who are honest because what they say is we will stop Migration by by abandoning human rights and you look at the border of Europe today where human rights are abandoned by parties that say oh we respect human

Rights and they don’t stop migration so increasingly what I notice in debates is that young people which are increasingly voting for the far right I mean the young people vote for the far right in Austria or in France they say listen this this dis honesty this lack of of of

Clarity promising things that don’t work um we resent that and so we have the Paradox that Europe is more diverse than ever the most successful parts of Europe are those that are the most diverse where most of the population are not born in the country or have been recent

Immigrants where Europeans know we need migration so all of this would suggest that you can organize this without fear but our politicians and the debate on migration is driven on the One Hand by exaggerated fears of populists and on the other hand by really sterile empty repetitive talk by parties that say

Either we can do nothing or then when there is pressure in the public they say we do something but it won’t work and so people get a sense that something is deeply wrong with our system in instead of having a grip on it like in Canada which is a

Clear policy which I think is what democratic parties should embrace urgently which is to say our goal is to reduce irregular migration as much as possible but to do it without violating human rights so we need Partnerships we need Ser third countries safe third countries return agreements with very

Few returns because our goal is to stop people getting into boats not return many people so we have a cut off date and at the same time incre and argue for and make campaigns for more resettlement more legal work migration more Mobility I mean Eric pointed out to me I missed one country

In South America there are three countries in South America that need a visa Ecuador Bolivia and Cuba but together they are 5% of the population of Latin America and the Caribbean 5% 95% of the people in Latin America and the Caribbean travel visa free no African country travels Visa free no no

Let’s have a debate let’s focus our advocacy on creating legal mobility and and let’s reduce irregular migration if we don’t do that you know just the experience of every country we’ve studied in the last 10 years it will blow up in our face and we will see a Europe where parties are increasingly

Influential which means leading governments uh that are openly racist openly islamophobic openly prop Putin openly illiberal openly against human rights and I think this would be a terrible their reliction of the responsibility of democratic politicians just to watch this and pretend there’s nothing we can

Do um Miss kesa just wrote to me that um maybe the solar power um is gone soon from her computer because the electricity is out in general as as far as understood in harar right now that’s also the difficulties that are possible but stay with us I hope the solar power stays or

The energy stays with us as long as possible Mr marwad I wanted to ask you a question because you were a lot of you were in lesbos several times and and you know that also the situation on the ground for the people that the citizens of these areas are quite can be quite

Difficult are many people feeling overwhelmed by the migration or by the the many refugees that are coming do you think that these warries are are Justified are they left alone yes so I think we have like around 1 billion so 1,000 million people who are coming to Europe every year yeah

That’s number round about after covid and um approximately 1 million so one per thousand immigrant who who ask for Sun so that’s a number so um I think what people don’t understand is if they read in the news that immigrants create problems and we have a problem there

Because um newspapers in Germany I know study say that um this like criminality by immigrants is is present 30 times more than the statistics in the newspapers so it’s it’s also not very rational especially the people who don’t um meet with migrants and refugees in their real life have more fears than the

Others which is like where you have less refugees you have uh more prejudices so so to say um that that’s one of the problems and the second problem is that of course we cannot just say that um we are a country and a continent of immigration and we are in favor of Human

Rights we are in favor of everything and in practice people see that we like cannot accommodate the people in a proper way that integration courses and language courses do not work that um integration to the labor market does not work so so if we say that we’re countries of immigration we of course

Have to have the INF structure yeah and not only actually in my country Germany for example but of course also if we want to give alternatives to this like horrible way through the central Mediterranean Sea um of course everywhere where an embassy of Germany is there should be an Immigration Center

To Germany or to the European Union where you can go and ask for information like what should I do to get the education for the job I want like how can you help me can you help me I don’t know like how can I come to the European

Union in a in a proper way maybe just for three months to find a job or to ask for University as a country where I’m in I don’t know maybe Zimbabwe um can guarantee that if somebody goes for three months to find a job or education or whatever that after three months the

Person comes back otherwise can be returned or whatever like like these kind of things it’s not rocket science you know it’s just that like like Visa waivers for example it’s not rocket science like every country in the world um maybe not every but most of the countries in the world like turkey for

Example they would never allow that people who overstay their visas like people from Turkey coming to Europe who overstay their visa in Europe would not be returned to Turkey because the Visa would end and the whole society in Turkey would not accept that their leaders do not take back five people and

Everybody’s losing the possibility to travel visa free to Europe so these kind of hooks um could be pretty effective but what I recognize is that the European leaders at least the last 10 or 20 years were going to other countries to tell them what they should do now these other

Countries um and they return or get their people back or what whatever and we did not understand as a European Union that you cannot go somewhere and just ask for things without giving something back and that’s why I think most of the immigration deals or agreements or whatever they do

Not work because they are um not fair so to say and that does not work in the end so um if you ask me about fears um I think that most fears are profal um there not so many people who are danger with to National Security or whatever

But of course we can create most security risk in Europe if we don’t understand that people who are staying in Europe for five or 10 years and do not have access to language courses and jobs and whatever that of of course they create problem at a point they don’t

Have the right to work for example they work um maybe with a mafia at some point or whatever as you see it in in Italy and um all these problems are from my point of view a little bit housemade um so I I would say that we as G said don’t

Have a problem with numbers or or migration in general at the moment we just are like we are not aware that Democratic parties in Democratic countries have to give real answers to real challenges and not just talk about things and on on the one hand maybe

Shift a little bit to the right in the rhetoric promising some things on the other side and whatever we have to solve the problems and the problem is like lack of integration lack of agreements with third countries lack of legal Pathways like of um a common European Asylum system

Which creates a fair share of responsibility between the M State all these problems can be solved but there just the need of political will and that is not there at the moment because I think that most of the Europe leaders unfortunately think that with what they

Do now namely talk a little bit like in right phrases about migration and create the idea that irregular migration can just be stopped or whatever with with some new rules we create in Brussels or whatever like all these things will not solve the challenges and that’s the fear I have um because that

Is just creating um a ground for the far right to um be the future European Le leaders unfortunately um we have one question from the audience which I want to read to you and then I will ask Mr NE if these questions are something that is discussed in also in Nigeria maybe

Amongst people who think about Europe and getting coming to Europe at one one point maybe so the question here is are immigrants welcome in Europe European countries I have been seeing videos that locals don’t want immigrants anymore why is that the case is it because of xenophobia or something else and

Um um do people when they are people aware of the discussions in Europe do they see that there’s a lot of controvers uh there are a lot of controversial discussions about immigration well most people that uh get involved with irregular migration they when they have conversations about migrating to Europe

They’re not political about it they’re not thinking about you know what legislation and all of that they’re not you know thinking it that deeply they are simply having conversations around oh it it’s becoming more difficult now to seek Asylum for instance and someone would say say you know like maybe 5

Years ago it was easier you know these days is so difficult most people are not able to get it you know those those kind of conversations but they’re not really talking about it in terms of policies or whatever they just observe that it’s become you know it’s becoming more

Difficult and all that and that’s just the kind of conversation that people are having at that level um have you heard of of the ideas to when for example Asylum seekers in Europe to um have the process somewhere else like in countries like Rwanda um

Have you heard of that and if yes do you think that people would be deterred to make the journey towards Europe uh if they if this is really done uh yeah I think um I’m you’re referring to the I think the deal the UK government um made with the Ugandan

Government to send migrants to you know to Rwanda I think um would it they tell people that no people who want people who are frustrated from you know living where they are living would literally take anything better you know um somewhere in my film I I made a point that it most

Times when these people are people are Migra to Europe it’s not necessarily about Europe the place you know it’s it’s about the opportunities that they they believe that they need and they hear that those opportunities are available in Europe but if on their way to Europe they find any other place

Where that opportunity is available they will quickly forget about Europe and they will settle and they would start to build the life of their dreams so if they know that maybe if they try to go to Europe it’s not possible and they they sent to Rwanda Randa if they know

That Rwanda it would provide a better opportunity for them than Nigeria for instance they would still want to go and they would be like okay um if if it goes well I end up in Europe but if not they will send me to Rwanda which is still

Better than where I am you know what I mean so in that way they don’t care you know um and I still continue to say that the I don’t think the conversation should be about where to send them or whether to allow them to stay in Europe

Or not I think the conversation should be more about why why are people doing this why are people feeling this hopelessness in the countries where they are why what can we do as as now it’s becoming clearer that we are one entity like there’s no if it’s like you if you

Like you build a heaven in in Europe and in America or whatever and then you neglect what’s happening in other places it’s just a matter of time before it starts to catch up with you because there’s we are in one world every equality should be a major conversation around migration equality

Should be a major conversation about migration because there’s no way that you can keep people out completely you know um especially if you yourself need to um go out of your country every once in a while I mean you cannot completely say for instance if you’re Germany you

Can’t completely say we don’t want Nigerians entering Germany because if you say that you’ve invariably said that you also would not be trying to enter Nigeria as a German which is some really farfetched that I don’t think is possible so so long as there’s still going to be migration then

We need to really have these conversations serious serious conversations why are most African countries are not why are they not industrialized you know why is I mean the highest percentage of Coco in the world is grown in West Africa and why West these West African countries growing this Coco they don’t have any

Meaningful percentage of the global trade in coko you know why are there no coko factories in in Ghana employing young people and giving them a hope of a simple life most people are not asking for too much actually in West Africa most people are not asking for too much

Most people are just basically asking to be able to afford you know comfortable accommodation not anything Grant just most people don’t care about living in mansions most people just want to live in simple homes most people want to be able to provide for their family be able

To pay school fees and afford medical care when they need it you know simple things until we start to have those conversations we would still continue to run around in circles about migration issues mrow um inequality or global inequality is I guess one of the topics

Um one had one would have to talk about um migration is more maybe a symptom or illegal migration at least um in the last years European the European Union and different uh individual states um try to make deals I mentioned the one uh with Rwanda this I think this night is a

Debate in the European Parliament uh not sorry in the British Parliament about about this issue but uh there Al were also deals with turkey u in 2016 um Tunisia um Morocco Etc these kind of deals do they make do they make it possible for these states to Blackmail Europe and isn’t this a

Dangerous path to go to use then migration as a kind of weapon or um an instrument for blackmailing the European Union well where start um Let me let me go back to the double problem of a extremely deadly route you know people dying in the Sahara people dying in the

Mediterranean in by the thousands and the extremely big political negative effect of this when the actual numbers are small uh I mean there was a year in which 2016 37,000 Nigerians crossed the central Mediterranean but this was totally exceptional most years it’s it’s a few thousand not even and we’re

Talking about a country W of 220 million people I mean so basically the number of Nigerians who cross into Europe across the Mediterranean is it’s like if five people leave Berlin every year you you don’t really notice it’s very very few and yet it’s deadly and it’s politically

Toxic in this situation what can you do um I I I agree with Eric we need to argue and I agree with all the other speakers already that’s talked about legal legal roads because a lot of it is a dream of just you know you don’t need

To be poor or you don’t need to be persecuted to want to move to another country I mean I’m living in another country in Europe you don’t have to risk anything you can move around the European Union uh I mean migration is a beautiful thing for young people that

Have dreams and want to see something of the world it’s like travel so some of this is just creating more Mobility that is possible but if you want to reduce irregular migration in the central Mediterranean where this year more than 150,000 people crossed how can we do it so how can you

Stop people getting into boat or going to Libya or Tunisia and getting into boats and there you know let me ask the question first of all why can’t Europeans stop it in the channel between Britain and France because we always talk about this as a European an African issue but why

Last year 47,000 people left France with Smugglers to go to the United Kingdom which is why the United Kingdom is going to Randa to try to stop this this year more than 30,000 already there is no right to migration there is a right to Refugee state to Refugee determination and to be treated

Humanely so if you are in France you have no right to go to the United Kingdom but how do we stop it without violating human rights I mean very I think what we should do this this winter and I’ve talked with people in the ministry of Syria and Germany and in the

Netherlands the ministry of justice and the ministry of in Syria Austria in the last days is that while the UK is discussing this R this debate and it goes in a very dangerous Direction this debate because the UK is now discussing whether to ignore the European Court of Human

Rights you know this would be a gift to the far right if this debate continues another half a year to just abolish the jurisdiction of European right human rights courts to prevent this Germany and Austria and Denmark which talk about safe third countries now should offer to

The UK we take back everyone who crosses the channel in Winter if we do that it’s only 1,500 people a month so Germany can say from the 1 of January Germany is a safe Third Country for Britain and in return the United Kingdom should take 20,000 people a year that

Want to that are in Germany Asylum Seekers or refugees that have relatives so believe have a dream that it’s better the United Kingdom so the United Kingdom offers a legal root for people already in the EU and the EU or a few countries that’s the easiest that’s the quickest this winter

Stop all crossings by taking everyone back from the United Kingdom and suddenly we see the kind of agreement we need if you are a safe country Germany Austria the Netherlands are safe you take a few people then it stops you don’t take thousands thousands of people you take a few people because then

People will not risk their life even the channel and pay 22,000 EUR but there is a legal route you can apply then to go to the United Kingdom and you can preserve human rights so suddenly when we see and if we could show this winter that this is possible between

Democracies we can then have a discussion can you do something like this between Spain and Germany and France and Sagal to stop the crossings to to the Canary Islands which are also deadly in fishing boats young men in these little boats and you say to Sagal we offer you legal migration we offer

Resettlement in return you take back the people who go to the Canary Islands for three months and then it will stop now this has worked I are many example around the world if it is well organized what is important for the Europeans and that’s a good thing is we

Can’t make what do what the Australians did which is they made it twice stopped all the boats but they send people to other states where they were treated very very badly Europe can’t do that which is a good thing because our courts will stop us and we saw that in the

United Kingdom the court said you can’t send people to Ronda if there’s not a fair Asylum system that’s great that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t try to stop irregular Migration by having deals with third countries but that means that you can only do it if those countries

Meet the conditions and they will only meet the conditions if you offer them something what Eric said said you know make an equal partnership I I don’t understand why Germany is not offering a small country like Namibia we or fighting for Visa free travel you know there was all this

Debate about the past well offer one African country and then other African countries can Aspire they can say oh it’s possible to have African countries that are Visa free travel and then we have a debate okay can you help us in this way and we help you in that way and

We create more legal Mobility these kinds of Partnerships work but what we have at the moment is an ideological debate a small group in our publics believes in open borders which for which they have no chance of realizing it so we have the status quo a bigger group

Believes in closed borders and violence and force Unfortunately they are becoming stronger and stronger but this is also this is at that price we don’t want to pay which is the end of the refugee convention and human rights the middle I think is looking for a policy

That combines the two having more legal Mobility more dignity less deaths less irregular migration and I think we need and I’d love to discuss this with Nigerian intellectuals with Nigerian you know there are a few thousand Nigerians in Germany that are supposed to be deported they will not be deported you

Know if you look at the numbers every year how many so why don’t we have an honest discussion Germany says those who are here you know a few perhaps if they’re sentenced to Serious crimes Nigeria says we take them back but the others they stay but Nigeria says from

Now on we take those who now come don’t need protection if you give us a legal route where people can apply like let’s make a deal give us a chance that young Nigerians can learn professions Cooks I don’t know I there are so many professions in Germany where there’s a

Shortage where people can say or even have a green card Lottery where there’s a hope you buy a ticket you know offer some hope and make agreements that are in the mutual interest and that agreement can work everything else is just the farce Miss kesa thank you if you’re back

I’m glad about that uh one question when you hear um these discussions that might sound sometimes a bit technical um maybe um not so empathetic you’re a filmmaker H do you think that documentary films and the work of filmmakers can raise the empathy of people and more understanding towards these different perspectives we

Are talking about yeah I definitely do can you can you hear me okay I changed devices great yes yeah um documentaries are a great way I find of like really initiating conversations amongst people that um that may not have been discussed before um particularly with my film what

I found is that there was a there was a disconnect in terms of the understanding of the experiences of migrants who had stay who had gone on to another country and to the family that they had left behind so those who had traveled to a new country may have been working two or

Three shifts may have been working you know 15 16 17 hour days just to try and make enough money to be able to send back home to their families and uh the ones at home have their own challenges in terms of making sure that they have clean water that they have

Electricity um that they’re able to have an education for the children who are still there so those who are at home might might sometimes assume that everything they’re greener pastures when you leave and everything is great and you’ll get money immediately and there’s no need for them to complain once they

Go but it’s not always it’s not always Rosy on the other side so the the film in particular my film is able to get families to have those discussions around um what they understand migration to be and how it affects uh the culture of a family in terms of how money is

Spent who’s who decides how it’s spent um and I think it’s our role as documentarians to provide a mirror to society to say this is the reality that we’re living and for those who can empathize or understand what’s going on um they’re able to see that they’re not

The only ones sometimes it’s very difficult for people to talk about their issues in my case I spoke about issues of finance and sometimes it’s very hard to talk about the money that you’re earning because you’re worried that um somebody might find out that uh you’re earning much less and you might be

Ashamed or that you’re earning a lot more and you’re worried that somebody might come looking for you for some for some reason to to to try and um gain from your finances uh so documentaries provide a perfect platform you know to be able to highlight these issues and also to push for policy

Changes particularly in in you know the countries that we come from um to encourage our our politicians to to make Pol you know to industrialize our country so that you know people don’t have to leave that we’re not lose that we’re not losing there’s not as big of a

Dra brain drain as there is now um and to encourage a kind of reciprocity with with countries in thisa in Europe for example or or countries that are receiving more and more migrants and refugees so that there are you know productive ways in which we can make sure and I always say

This you know to make sure that there is safe and legal migration between countries um so that people do not have to die um when when you think of the challenges that liia had uh for many African countries with the huge population growth but also structural problems um would you wish for more

Young uh Africans being more politically active to change the systems they live in I think you know we all we’re all political beings by by nature of being humans we’re all political so um the young people who are coming up are going to change the continent whether we want

Them to or not they have the numbers um you know half of the the population is below 25 years old so within the next Generation there’s going to be clear change and Innovation that’s coming out of the African continent and um some people may may say it as a negative

Thing but I see it as a perfect opportunity it’s a great opportunity for us because we have a young population who are able to provide um uh human capital uh Human Resources not only in the continent but abroad and also to to to be a new kind of voice

For for for politics on the continent because um we have had uh generations of much older politicians who have who have um LED our continent um in negative and positive ways but I think the Young Generation are going to change um the continent for the better Mr makad um How would positive

Constructive migration policy in Europe in the European Union look like in your opinion s question different answer yeah I said in the beginning that I think we should focus on the intentions of the people and the people um a little bit more than we do at the

Moment because um we are like like I have the feeling that the political discussion also when it comes to the common European Asylum system is somehow totally disconnected from reality like if you look on for example there is a proposal now to have a systematic border procedures at every external

Border and this is presented as a new idea that um certain people just stay there and then you have a fast decision and then you send them back and the others are relocated or whatever but it’s just presented as a new idea which is functioning that we understand since

Like at least three and a half years in Greece that it’s not functioning without having agreements with another country to send people back to like and it’s it’s totally disconnect from reality what we are doing at the moment so I would say first point um like accept the

Reality that migration is reality and you can be against irregular migration but just being against will not lead to the end of regular migration so we have to replace the second Point irregular migration with regular migration and this can also be connected of course with migration Partnerships with other

Countries and we have to also understand the advantages of migration because if we do not do this um as a European Union with 27 member states we will not have a situation where these 27 member states really accept the challenges to have the advantages in the end and also country

Like Hungary will have problems without IM migration in the near future like somebody has to pay the pension they like like in Germany like many people are against migration at the moment but they will be a little bit surprised if they just wait for 20 or 30 years where like Germany stands economically

But also like who is working then like to pay the the P of the people who are like 30 years in the pension all these things I think except reality um having more solidarity between the European countries and having less fear and being a little bit more proud also

To to help people in need in in need um of protection will help to um solve problems but I think also maybe last Point um that it’s just not okay anymore to talk for example about Africa like it’s a country and to to not like talk to the people there and understand the

Different um countries in Africa a little bit better I think there are many politicians in Europe never been to any African country and they’re talking about like they’re the biggest experts about migration and why people migrate to Europe and say that it’s just like bad intention and we

Should stop that but they like they never talk to the people and they never talk to the political leaders and they like like you have to at least and that is what where I started understand the situation um to solve the challenges and

Um I I think it’s it’s a long way to go for us as a Europeans um to understand that we are not the only ones in the world and um I hope we are at least at a starting point with the debate we have at the moment in the European

Union Mr when you look look at demographics in Europe um it’s an aging continent um and um as Mr marwad said um we somehow need to think of the future of the social welfare systems and Etc um would migration is do we need migration

And if yes do we need a more positive um PR for it or story narrative however we call it well well let me just repeat one point I made about Canada Canada is a country that at the moment has a very Progressive migration policy every year half a million people they have a

Three-year plan those are people who arrive legally they are welcomed they can become Canadians quickly and yet Canada also tries to stop irregular migration I I think we need to really distinguish between the two you can be very positive about migration and still think that the political and human consequences of

Irregular migration are incredibly High I mean I know many people in The Gambia when I visited and I talked in the Parliament and I went a few times talking to NOS who also want to stop The Irregular migration of the young men in the boats they disappear from the family

One day you know I met a minister whose son suddenly he was 18 disappeared and then went to I think it was Bina Faso and and earned money there teaching English and then went on to Libya and got caught in Libya and spent one year

In in a in a in basic in slavery in Libya so there are NOS there that are going around the Gambia saying please don’t take this route I just heard about a big project um in another West African country of a theater group going around Villages a three-hour play to warn

People about the risks of irregular migration so it’s not just Europeans who think this is a extremely dangerous route and we’ve heard uh in the very first intervention from Iken Babu about how risky it is and how people underestimate it but but just saying telling young men something is risky

Doesn’t usually stop them I mean this is true everywhere right I mean uh in our societies people do things I would never dare rock climbing you know which is very dangerous but people think that it’s worth trying and they feel that they are strong and so they try and so

What I think we need to be realistic offer offer legal Roots um offer opportunities have an honest debate as as Eric said um but at the same time yes Europe needs migrants they will not come through irregular migration this will not work the numbers that Europe needs have to come

Regularly uh so let’s divide the two debates and let’s have an honest debate about legal migration and I just make one last point every year you know I don’t know who does it but it’s the economist who publishes it the most livable cities in the world you know by

Whatever definition Health Care safety um comfort security are listed and if I look at the last list this year number one is the town I grew up in Vienna where 34% of the population are non- austrians who work there more than 44% have a migration direct migration

Background it’s a city of immigrants the other cities among the top five most livable cities are Toronto and Vancouver I mean these are are all immigrant cities so clearly immigration and success are are linked and the most successful cities in Germany today I mean stutgart what is it 40 50% of the

Population has a migration background um migration is a good thing when it is organized not deadly when people are not exploited we’ve heard this you know a lot of migrants are exploited when they are in irregular status but migration is also a dangerous and deadly thing when

It is done by Smugglers and the way we see in the Mediterranean so we need more of the first and less of the second and we can only achieve it in Partnership okay my my last question goes to ik NE um when you hear that we

Need a more um we need more regular migration um maybe you have some experiences with um going to an embassy a German one or maybe some others uh to get Visa to come to Europe uh is it as easy right now you’re silent still

Muted I’m so sorry no not at all what I was saying is what is being discussed about creating more legal Pathways it’s a very very important conversation right now it’s so difficult to get a visa to go to most European countries even like I give you an example a

Personal example recently I missed I missed uh an a festival in Germany that you know invited me to screen my film and they wanted me on you know like on a panel and so they really wanted me to you know um be there in person and I

Just even couldn’t get an appointment to go to the Embassy like it was so crazy I even reached out to some of my friends you know at the German Embassy you know that like the German diplomatic circles and nobody could help me the only information that I got was that I must

Log onto the website at 12: midnight that that is the only time that you know that the window opens and I I stayed up at night a few nights and tried and maybe I was too late maybe I arrived maybe like 2 minutes after midnight and it was closed again and I just

I thought that was just ridiculous you know why would you have an embassy but you don’t want to you know process you know visas and like if you don’t want to give visas anymore I think it’s okay to say so that at least people know where they stand but to make it in

Such a way that it just became so difficult you know um if I was someone who was desperate to leave Nigeria for whatever reasons you know that alone is enough to make me to start to think of other ways you know that I can do this

Without a Visa and and this was me who was actually just trying to squeeze that time out of my schedule to be able to you know um attend that festival and share my film and and come back to my work and stuff but I couldn’t I couldn’t

Even I I couldn’t I couldn’t get the opportunity to even present my my passport um for consideration you know and and this is just one of the many stories how things are becoming so difficult you know uh for people to be able to you know follow the legal

Pathways of even just travel we’re not even talking about migration here we just even saying can people just travel you know um because I know that if I even wanted to say oh I want to relocate to Germany you know what are the I don’t even want to imagine how crazy and how

Difficult that can be but just simply being able to just even travel to Germany for a few days and come back is that difficult you know so it’s a very serious conversation that needs to start you we need to start having I think many many young Africans can rely to to your

Experience I hear this also quite a lot when it comes to embassies but um I want to thank you all for having participated in this discussion uh and for having joined us um in our discussion about migration especially I want to thank Romi kesa for having been here aita Cano

Um galow Eric marad and E neou for the participation I wish you all a great evening or a great day or a good night wherever you are in the world uh thanks so much for attending goodbye thank you

Millions of refugees, asylum seekers and migrants have arrived in Europe over the past years. Many of them have died or gone missing trying to reach the continent, more than 3,000 people in 2023 alone. These numbers pose a challenge for political leaders in countries receiving migrants as they struggle to find ways to deal with people driven from their homes by conflict, poverty, and climate change.

DW Documentary has recently broadcast a number of documentary films on the topic of migration made by filmmakers from the African continent. We want to use the opportunity to discuss the questions: What challenges or problems does large-scale migration cause? What are the reasons for concerns in Europe, and are the continent’s migration policies adequate? What are the positive effects of migration? Can migration provide unique opportunities, not only for those making their way to Europe, but also for Europe itself?

The online panel discussion ‘Migration to Europe: Crisis, Challenge, Chance?’ will address these questions. Join us for the discussion on December 12, 2023, at 18:00 (CET) / 17:00 (UTC)

DW Documentary host Thomas Hasel will explore these topics together with:
Ike Nnaebue, Documentary Filmmaker and Director of ‘No U-Turn’
Rumbi Katedza, Documentary Filmmaker and Director of ‘Transactions’
Gerald Knaus. Chairman of the European Stability Initiative (ESI)
Erik Marquardt, Member of European Parliament | greens/EFA | Alliance 90/The Greens
Assita Kanko, Member of European Parliament | Nieuw-Vlaamse Alliantie (N-VA)

#documentary #dwdocumentary #migration
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