Moi,
Hope all of you are doing great, hyvää joulua!
A few days ago I was talking with a desi/South Asian person (he can speak kinda okay Finnish, B2 level) with a PhD in Chemical engineering, lives in Turku. Got his Finnish citizenship a few years ago, but despite that he’s still jobless(!!!!?!!). Other gigs are earning his bread and better and he’s living here for like almost a decade. When I asked him what went wrong, he pointed out a few things:
1. Even with citizenship and PhD, he can’t get a proper study related job here because of his name (he claims).
2. People like him (who are naturalized Finnish citizens) also get vetted way before his CV reaches the HR.
3. Due to his PhD, that counts as work experience. But then there’s the work gap after the doctorate degree because he can’t get a job. And according to him, this is a disadvantage because every time his CV goes to the recruiters’, the recruiters’ are rejecting him because he don’t have enough industry experience.
4. He’s frustrated but also telling me not to lose hope because ten years ago, it was harder. I was like, “bruv it’s not much different.”
5. Another friend of mine has B2 level swedish and he has applied for a couple of companies in Åland only to get reply, “Your language is okay but you don’t have required industry level experience!?!” It’s like the companies here always have a way to reject entry level workers (non Finns) with excuses like language, experience etc. Tick one box and they’ll hit you with another criteria that you can’t fulfill. This is a vicious cycle for foreigners (and probably Finns) here in Finland.
5. I see even my Finnish classmates having two/three bachelor degrees (!!?!) and they can’t get a job in their desired field. Which is insane and weird from my POV. Like what’s the point of doing degrees after degrees when a person can’t get a job!? Makes me wonder what the Finnish universities actually teach and what are necessary in reality to just get an entry level work in Finland.
6. I started pondering about the future here, because I am a recent masters student in Finland. Looking at all the ruckus, I realized that good results and skills are probably not enough to secure a place here. Even the other normal jobs like cleaning and housekeeping are rare nowadays. I have decided to just glue my ass on my chair and study everyday. Only skill building, certification and projects. At least those things will allow me to apply elsewhere.
7. I was listening to this podcast by Taiste (https://youtu.be/yo0vrozo0pw?si=a3PSmXuVM594Mro4) and the guests have pointed out some interesting points about Finnish job market. They need a lot of foreign senior talents but can’t bring them because the foreigners have a better option. But what’s weird for me is that after spending tons of money for foreign students (all these scholarships and shits) , they’ll end up working in another country and become senior talents there. In one hand Finland don’t want entry level workers, on another hand they are killing potential future senior talents. This is an absolute mess. It’s like being a foreigner here guarantees you’re going to be fucked for sure.
8. With thousand of foreign students here in Finland without any proper jobs in their study field (like idk how many PhD and masters students working at SOL or N Clean), can’t the Finnish government create a pipeline for foreign talents where the Finnish companies will invest in other countries and these foreign young graduates talents will work in those country (without hampering all the permanent residency/ citizenship issues) and later bring them back as senior workforce for the main branch?
I have written down a lot of things, but I needed to get these off from my chest. Thanks for reading my blabbering, kittos!
by Better-Analysis-2694
7 comments
PhD is very often a hinderance for getting employed, if you don’t have other relevant work experience. You are unqualified for any senior-level position because of the lack of work experience, but overqualified due to the doctorate: why take someone for a junior/entry level position, if it’s evident they won’t be staying in that position for long? A much more successful route would be to start gathering work experience for a few years and gain some sort of a specialist status and only then start thinking about a PhD to further expand that knowledge.
These problems aren’t limited to foreigners. Even us natives have a very hard time getting employed. Naturally, foreigners have the added difficulties that come with being non-native. It usually does get easier after landing the first job in the field.
Yea there are not enough jobs in Finland (except in some very specific and limited fields, like medical doctor or Wolt courier). Doesent matter if you are Indian or Finnish
> In one hand Finland don’t want entry level workers, on another hand they are killing potential future senior talents.
Yeah they don’t understand the fact that there will be never enough number of senior level workers available in Finland at a given time. It is not possible to find it inside Finland or attract enough number of them to Finland because there are so many countries in the world and there is a competition and these people are shared between all countries. It is necessary to provide entry level jobs and career paths in Finland to keep the talent. This includes both the foreigners and Finns. Providing an education is not enough. If it leads to a dead end then the talents would eventually leave.
First, tell your friend to get out of Turku. Helsinki metropolitan area is the only place i would even start applying for jobs. Sure, there are some companies hiring in Turku (like Taiste), but it’s hardly even a city so don’t expect too much.
Second, you’re probably right about vetting and name checking. Finns have a long way to learn how to hire international talent. Some companies are better in it (like Taiste) than others. Some are inherently more xenophobic because this whole international situation is relatively new here. Ten years ago it probably was a lot worse. So be patient and get creative. If you feel like you don’t know what to do, neither does those companies. We all have to learn together.
For some reason your analysis is completely missing the bit about language. Let me help you with that:
1. I believe that for majority of jobs, at least in the cities, the language requirements are fluent Finnish AND fluent English. Applicants for these positions are a majority of Finns because Finns are good at English and obviously then the portion of immigrants who have learned sufficient Finnish.
2. In the greater minority of jobs the language requirements is fluent Finnish. Same group of applicants as in the previous group. However, maybe bit more Finns than immigrants as you really have to manage in Finnish in all situations
3. The lesser minority of jobs has a language requirement of fluent English only (=”working language is English”). Now, the applicants to these jobs are obviously the immigrants but also the Finns because there are lots of fluent English speakers in that group. These jobs will also be applied by people from abroad who have great English skills
Now, you are beginning to see the picture For every competent immigrant applicant in all those groups there are a multiple of Finnish applicants. The smallest group attracts all the English speakers in finland and then some jobs in that group attract also people willing to move to Finland from abroad.
I strongly believe that the moment a person starts thinking about stuff like “I am a person like this and this and this and that is the reason I have difficulty in getting a job” it impacts the way they see themselves and how they will then behave and “self-guide” when planning on what to do.
The right way to approach this is to approach it through competence and ability, expertise and experience. That is the only sane way to go about it. Language skill is a competence and being able to not just speak, read and write something but to also work in said language is another one. Looking at the groups I laid out, the biggest obstacle that lies in front of most immigrants, is the competency of Finnish language. And therefore the biggest opportunity get employed is to learn it.
Regarding some other observation in your post:
It is not a new thing that entry level jobs are scarce. This is the case especially when there is an economic downturn and the view forward is bleak for employers. It is hard to offer positions to graduates when you know that you will be kicking out a lot of your current employees in the future.
The friend with the phd should apply in western world for an appropiate job since the job situation in Finland is shit anyway.
I wish I had something positive to add, but I’ve heard all the advice about learning how to network more effectively all too often. Just know that the struggle is real for highly qualified natives with perfect language skills too, the market is broken and has been that way for a long time.
If you can, start your own business. From an employer’s perspective Finland is the perfect place to find highly skilled employees.