Women’s rights groups have written in opposition to a decision by UN Women UK to have a transgender woman as its “UK champion”.
They have voiced their “dismay and disappointment” following the decision to select Munroe Bergdorf, 36, a model and broadcaster, to take on the role in November.
The organisations include Fair Play for Women, Sex Matters, Transgender Trend and the Women’s Rights Network.
UN Women UK works in support of UN Women in a bid to transform the lives of women and girls along with “empowerment of women equality globally within civil society, government and the corporate sector”.
The groups in their joint letter, seen by The Times, wrote: “We wish to register our dismay and disappointment at the appointment of Munroe Bergdorf as a UN Women UK champion. Munroe Bergdorf is unsuitable in every regard. Munroe Bergdorf’s well-publicised activism is not pro-women. This person has objected to women making references to our female bodies.”
They called into question how Ms Bergdorf could hold such a role although she does not speak about female bodies.
She has previously held the role of an advocate for UN Women UK back in 2019.
Ms Bergdorf has also been a supporter of the Draw a Line campaign, in a drive to end violence against women and girls.
On being given the role, she said: “I’m incredibly proud to step into my new role as a UN Women UK Champion. Working with the UN has been a personal ambition and dream of mine ever since I started working in the activism space over a decade ago. It’s a responsibility that I don’t take lightly.
“I will use this role to further advocate for the progress, safety, inclusion and empowerment of all women and girls, of all communities and identities. I will continue to draw attention to the systemic and social impact of misogyny, transphobia and gender-based inequality within the UK – in order to help provide data and insight that contributes to forming tangible methods of tracking and countering it.”
For those who don’t want to click on a Telegraph link
I believe there is a command to post alternative links, but Idk what it is.
This is an increasingly polarizing debate. I fully understand the concerns of both sides. It’s really difficult and I don’t think there is any definitive answer to this. I don’t think this issue will ever be resolved.
I mean she is fairly representative of where the UK is on this issue regardless of where you individually stand on the matter.
Compared to the majority of the UN, we are far more pro-trans.
Why? Do trans women have a “biological advantage” at being hot and smart too now?
[deleted]
I’m glad people are finally starting to wake up and rationally debate this kind of stuff, like [Transgender Swimming Athletes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Thomas) winning not only the 2022 women’s swimming championship, but also changing in the same rooms as other women with a full dong on display, and being nominated for the NCAA “woman of the year award” so normal women don’t really win anything. 5 years ago this kind of discussion would have been absurd because to say anything remotely negative against any part of the LGBT community would have you downvoted to the depths of hell and possibly a lynch mob at your doorstep. Now, people are saying “Hol’ up, this ain’t right” and it’s finally making people understand that men shouldn’t be representing or out-competing women in any area. Feminists should be less concerned about nothingburger issues, and more concerned with men becoming trans and stealing accomplishments from women in their own territory. There’s nothing you can do to ever excuse this, because something like a trans man beating male gymnasts purely because women have more flexible bodies than men just simply isn’t fair.
In the 1970s we had “battle of the sexes” trying to decide if women or men were better at tennis. Now in the 2020s we literally have men and women unofficially competing in the same sports because people are too afraid to tell a trans woman it’s not fair to beat women in a woman’s sport, or that it’s wrong for a man to represent women.
It’s great to be pro-pride and all that “live your real self” stuff, but it doesn’t excuse you from doing this kind of crap. If it’s completely unreasonable and unfair to assign a male to represent all women at the UN, then why is it okay for a man calling himself a woman to represent them? People would call this hate speech because like I said, you literally can’t say anything remotely negative about anything LGBT. But from a purely rational standpoint, it’s a fact. It just simply isn’t fair no matter which way you spin it.
Imagine playing second-fiddle to men for most of history, on most of the planet, in most societies.
Then you finally achieve equal rights and representation (at least on paper), but only in some parts of the world.
Then a global organisation like the UN, which is specifically tasked with (amongst other things) promoting the role of women, decides that (instead of one of the 30+ million bilogical women in the UK) you should be represented by a biological male who wishes to live as a woman.*
I can see that being a tad frustrating. I know I’d be a smidge irked were the shoe on the other foot.
*Just a disclaimer that all consenting adults, trans or not, should be allowed to live as they please. This just seems designed to stir up controversy…
Well, do they want a trans bloke to have the role given “sex matters”? If sex matters, then he should be the one representing women surely.
> Munroe Bergdorf’s well-publicised activism is not pro-women. This person has objected to women making references to our female bodies.
If true, that seems like a valid concern that has nothing to do with her being trans
Edit: oh wow, she’s also the one that said
> the white race is “the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth”
Yeah I’m thinking she’s maybe not the best representative of a country where 80%ish of the women are white – and it’s nothing to do with her being trans
>They called into question how Ms Bergdorf could hold such a role although she does not speak about female bodies.
>
>**She has previously held the role of an advocate for UN Women UK back in 2019.**
She held a related post several years ago and was considered good enough to be selected again. These hate groups deserve much less press time
Off topic-ish maybe but just as I imagine people commenting are passionate/linked into one side of the debate or other.
I wonder:
A) There would be less of a hot button issue now if the argument moved from ‘trans women ARE women’ to ‘trans women should be treated as if they are women’—-making the implied moral statement actually the focus rather than allowing others issue because they see it as ‘against reality’….all of which comes down to a semantic argument about whether women is just a word for female or if it is a social construct/role.
B) How much of whether you consider someone a man/woman about brain activity to do with categorisation—so your brain automatically categorises people’s faces/bodies etc (much like we do for in groups and our groups and different ‘races’—-which are also social constructs) as a natural process—-is this more ‘stringent’ for some and ‘flexible’ for others.
Tied into B—-how easy is it to move an individual from one gender category to another in people’s brains/perceptions…if someone is a transwoman does the brain of percivers categorise them as ‘male’ or ‘female’…how easy is this to change? (Is it harder if you knew them first?)***
***quick note: the fact we categorise people into male and female boundaries which might not be transferable due to a bio process doesn’t mean it’s inevitable biology- society influences brain structure and so on so over generations such a pattern might change
>The organisations include Fair Play for Women, Sex Matters, Transgender Trend and the Women’s Rights Network.
Oh, it’s the TERFs again, never mind.
What if there were a non-trans woman as women’s champion, and a trans woman as trans-women’s champion?
“Activists” here being the same group of a few dozen people who manage multiple social media accounts each, all while getting millions in funding from far right think tanks in the United States,
Seems like this women has done multiple things to help women, I don’t really see the issue, and it sounds like it’s an annual award not she is champion for life. Just Torygraph trying to go after trans people again
The main issue should be whether or not she’d me the most effective person in the role. Which she may well be, it sounds like she has legit experience campaigning for women’s rights.
At the end of the day it’s a simple question of would women’s rights be better protected after she has been in the job, than someone else.
The only cause for concern I’d have, is if this is in fact a diversity hire. Did the person hiring say Ms Bergdof is objectively the best person for this job. Or did someone say ‘oooh let’s hire a trans person, wouldn’t that be wonderful, won’t this appease the students online’.
I feel really bad for me Bergdorf that this is a question we’d have to ask. But frankly I don’t have trust in the organisation that this is a completely neutral hire based on experience. Though to emphasise, I’m not saying that it isn’t either, it’s just impossible to tell.
Have they considered that maybe trans women are just better at being women than they are?
18 comments
Women’s rights groups have written in opposition to a decision by UN Women UK to have a transgender woman as its “UK champion”.
They have voiced their “dismay and disappointment” following the decision to select Munroe Bergdorf, 36, a model and broadcaster, to take on the role in November.
The organisations include Fair Play for Women, Sex Matters, Transgender Trend and the Women’s Rights Network.
UN Women UK works in support of UN Women in a bid to transform the lives of women and girls along with “empowerment of women equality globally within civil society, government and the corporate sector”.
The groups in their joint letter, seen by The Times, wrote: “We wish to register our dismay and disappointment at the appointment of Munroe Bergdorf as a UN Women UK champion. Munroe Bergdorf is unsuitable in every regard. Munroe Bergdorf’s well-publicised activism is not pro-women. This person has objected to women making references to our female bodies.”
They called into question how Ms Bergdorf could hold such a role although she does not speak about female bodies.
She has previously held the role of an advocate for UN Women UK back in 2019.
Ms Bergdorf has also been a supporter of the Draw a Line campaign, in a drive to end violence against women and girls.
On being given the role, she said: “I’m incredibly proud to step into my new role as a UN Women UK Champion. Working with the UN has been a personal ambition and dream of mine ever since I started working in the activism space over a decade ago. It’s a responsibility that I don’t take lightly.
“I will use this role to further advocate for the progress, safety, inclusion and empowerment of all women and girls, of all communities and identities. I will continue to draw attention to the systemic and social impact of misogyny, transphobia and gender-based inequality within the UK – in order to help provide data and insight that contributes to forming tangible methods of tracking and countering it.”
For those who don’t want to click on a Telegraph link
https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/01/03/munroe-bergdorfs-un-womens-uk-champion-anti-trans-groups/
I believe there is a command to post alternative links, but Idk what it is.
This is an increasingly polarizing debate. I fully understand the concerns of both sides. It’s really difficult and I don’t think there is any definitive answer to this. I don’t think this issue will ever be resolved.
I mean she is fairly representative of where the UK is on this issue regardless of where you individually stand on the matter.
Compared to the majority of the UN, we are far more pro-trans.
Why? Do trans women have a “biological advantage” at being hot and smart too now?
[deleted]
I’m glad people are finally starting to wake up and rationally debate this kind of stuff, like [Transgender Swimming Athletes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Thomas) winning not only the 2022 women’s swimming championship, but also changing in the same rooms as other women with a full dong on display, and being nominated for the NCAA “woman of the year award” so normal women don’t really win anything. 5 years ago this kind of discussion would have been absurd because to say anything remotely negative against any part of the LGBT community would have you downvoted to the depths of hell and possibly a lynch mob at your doorstep. Now, people are saying “Hol’ up, this ain’t right” and it’s finally making people understand that men shouldn’t be representing or out-competing women in any area. Feminists should be less concerned about nothingburger issues, and more concerned with men becoming trans and stealing accomplishments from women in their own territory. There’s nothing you can do to ever excuse this, because something like a trans man beating male gymnasts purely because women have more flexible bodies than men just simply isn’t fair.
In the 1970s we had “battle of the sexes” trying to decide if women or men were better at tennis. Now in the 2020s we literally have men and women unofficially competing in the same sports because people are too afraid to tell a trans woman it’s not fair to beat women in a woman’s sport, or that it’s wrong for a man to represent women.
It’s great to be pro-pride and all that “live your real self” stuff, but it doesn’t excuse you from doing this kind of crap. If it’s completely unreasonable and unfair to assign a male to represent all women at the UN, then why is it okay for a man calling himself a woman to represent them? People would call this hate speech because like I said, you literally can’t say anything remotely negative about anything LGBT. But from a purely rational standpoint, it’s a fact. It just simply isn’t fair no matter which way you spin it.
Imagine playing second-fiddle to men for most of history, on most of the planet, in most societies.
Then you finally achieve equal rights and representation (at least on paper), but only in some parts of the world.
Then a global organisation like the UN, which is specifically tasked with (amongst other things) promoting the role of women, decides that (instead of one of the 30+ million bilogical women in the UK) you should be represented by a biological male who wishes to live as a woman.*
I can see that being a tad frustrating. I know I’d be a smidge irked were the shoe on the other foot.
*Just a disclaimer that all consenting adults, trans or not, should be allowed to live as they please. This just seems designed to stir up controversy…
Well, do they want a trans bloke to have the role given “sex matters”? If sex matters, then he should be the one representing women surely.
> Munroe Bergdorf’s well-publicised activism is not pro-women. This person has objected to women making references to our female bodies.
If true, that seems like a valid concern that has nothing to do with her being trans
Edit: oh wow, she’s also the one that said
> the white race is “the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth”
Yeah I’m thinking she’s maybe not the best representative of a country where 80%ish of the women are white – and it’s nothing to do with her being trans
>They called into question how Ms Bergdorf could hold such a role although she does not speak about female bodies.
>
>**She has previously held the role of an advocate for UN Women UK back in 2019.**
She held a related post several years ago and was considered good enough to be selected again. These hate groups deserve much less press time
Off topic-ish maybe but just as I imagine people commenting are passionate/linked into one side of the debate or other.
I wonder:
A) There would be less of a hot button issue now if the argument moved from ‘trans women ARE women’ to ‘trans women should be treated as if they are women’—-making the implied moral statement actually the focus rather than allowing others issue because they see it as ‘against reality’….all of which comes down to a semantic argument about whether women is just a word for female or if it is a social construct/role.
B) How much of whether you consider someone a man/woman about brain activity to do with categorisation—so your brain automatically categorises people’s faces/bodies etc (much like we do for in groups and our groups and different ‘races’—-which are also social constructs) as a natural process—-is this more ‘stringent’ for some and ‘flexible’ for others.
Tied into B—-how easy is it to move an individual from one gender category to another in people’s brains/perceptions…if someone is a transwoman does the brain of percivers categorise them as ‘male’ or ‘female’…how easy is this to change? (Is it harder if you knew them first?)***
***quick note: the fact we categorise people into male and female boundaries which might not be transferable due to a bio process doesn’t mean it’s inevitable biology- society influences brain structure and so on so over generations such a pattern might change
>The organisations include Fair Play for Women, Sex Matters, Transgender Trend and the Women’s Rights Network.
Oh, it’s the TERFs again, never mind.
What if there were a non-trans woman as women’s champion, and a trans woman as trans-women’s champion?
“Activists” here being the same group of a few dozen people who manage multiple social media accounts each, all while getting millions in funding from far right think tanks in the United States,
Seems like this women has done multiple things to help women, I don’t really see the issue, and it sounds like it’s an annual award not she is champion for life. Just Torygraph trying to go after trans people again
The main issue should be whether or not she’d me the most effective person in the role. Which she may well be, it sounds like she has legit experience campaigning for women’s rights.
At the end of the day it’s a simple question of would women’s rights be better protected after she has been in the job, than someone else.
The only cause for concern I’d have, is if this is in fact a diversity hire. Did the person hiring say Ms Bergdof is objectively the best person for this job. Or did someone say ‘oooh let’s hire a trans person, wouldn’t that be wonderful, won’t this appease the students online’.
I feel really bad for me Bergdorf that this is a question we’d have to ask. But frankly I don’t have trust in the organisation that this is a completely neutral hire based on experience. Though to emphasise, I’m not saying that it isn’t either, it’s just impossible to tell.
Have they considered that maybe trans women are just better at being women than they are?