On one hand it might be a good way to get people going out and about on quieter days of the year (I imagine some bits of January and February in particular could really do with a boost, and then Mon/Fri if people are continuing WFH patterns) but on the other it adds yet another level of confusion around how much the tube actually costs. Tourists and plenty of locals already have their head wrecked by zones, caps, peak/off peak, travelcards, etc.
Transport nerds: would this be the first transport system in the world to implement dynamic/flexible pricing?
How would this work in practice with caps and travelcards?
It’s an interesting thought exercise but has far too many logistical and transparency problems.
Great idea but people will hate it.
I have to say I prefer knowing how much it’ll cost me in advance.
My controversial opinion is that tube fares should be completely inexpensive in order to induce demand. Why would I use a car if the tube to central is 50p?
If dynamic pricing meant it gets cheaper when it’s quiet then fine. As long as the maximum stays reasonable and people end paying less than expected then it’s a good traffic shaping policy.
Let’s say overall ticket revenue remains the same, but “losses” are distributed to those that travel regularly during peak hours and the “gains” go to those who use the Tube at quiet times.
The former group will lose their shit and the latter group will keep mostly quiet. The “loser” group will lobby harder to protect their position compared to weak lobbying of the “winner” group, despite their wins/losses being equal in £ terms (this is connected with [loss aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion) bias).
Thus despite the policy being revenue-neutral – and a good idea for balancing demand – it will be hugely controversial, and it is likely that those who have the most to lose will win out over those who have most to gain.
Or alternative idea, central government actually funds transport systems properly
Oh great. So the rich can always take the tube, it the poor will have to wait to see what the surge is before deciding if they get to work on time or not.
The dynamic pricing here is just additional peak/off peak times. They are not talking about dynamic pricing in the sense Uber uses it
Based on the article, the peak fare on Mon n Fri could be less than peak fare on Thu. Not a bad idea
I don’t really get it; surely they’d need to increase revenue overall, otherwise what is the point? Just to spite people commuting at rush hour?
Assuming they do increase revenues overall, I don’t see how anybody would be happy with this – I hate taking the northern line at rush hour as is; now they’re going to charge me more for the displeasure?
Incoming downvotes.
I’d rather the commuters and vulnerable paid less and tourists and leisure travellers paid more.
Why do we have to pay more to go to work over a jolly on a weekend.
I’m interested to know how this would effect national rail tickets that include the tube. I fairly regularly have to make journeys from one side of London to the other (just outside Enfield to Guildford, Surrey). These tickets are already crazy expensive even with my railcard, if anything they should be cheaper, but I wonder if they’d make it more expensive.
Public transport should be free. But that’s an argument for another time.
I’ve started driving from North London to Euston in the evenings rather than taking the tube. It costs me £6 return for what is a 20 minute journey each way. My car costs me about a quid in petrol (of course with all the other running costs not taken into account).
If the dynamic pricing makes that evening trip cheaper I’m all for it. But if I was using it for rush hour and I’m getting charged more whilst travelling like a canned tin of sardines, then they can piss right off.
Implement it on the roads first. Far fairer than a flat rate on VED and fuel duty.
Someone driving down the B2982 in the middle of some woods on their weekly shop should not have to pay the same as someone driving round Piccadilly Circus at 8:22 in the morning. The resource usage is completely incomparable.
well its getting more expensive every year as it is. its most expensive in Europe.
Knowing tfl there will be no fall, only rise. Fuck tfl.
I bet the only times the price will fall is when there are no trains because the fucking signals are out or whatever bs excuse they want to use that day.
I never understand the (ostensible) logic behind dynamic pricing something like public transport.
I can see it makes plenty sense to use this mechanism on more flexible experiences – let’s say you’re a cinema, people could easily choose to go to see a movie on your quiet Sunday morning if you made that a bargain and made your busy Friday evening more expensive.
The tube? I have to get to work at 8:45. That’s just what it is. There is nothing you can do with silly ticketing magic that will make me want to get to work late, or worse still, get out of bed earlier…
Thinking about it this is also going to mess up anyone doing shift work. You want me to cover the closing shift? Why? I’m being paid less when you take out the hiked tube fare for getting there at 6-7
That will be to pay for next years tube strikes when they don’t get 10% increases 😂
21 comments
Not sure how I feel about this.
On one hand it might be a good way to get people going out and about on quieter days of the year (I imagine some bits of January and February in particular could really do with a boost, and then Mon/Fri if people are continuing WFH patterns) but on the other it adds yet another level of confusion around how much the tube actually costs. Tourists and plenty of locals already have their head wrecked by zones, caps, peak/off peak, travelcards, etc.
Transport nerds: would this be the first transport system in the world to implement dynamic/flexible pricing?
How would this work in practice with caps and travelcards?
It’s an interesting thought exercise but has far too many logistical and transparency problems.
Great idea but people will hate it.
I have to say I prefer knowing how much it’ll cost me in advance.
My controversial opinion is that tube fares should be completely inexpensive in order to induce demand. Why would I use a car if the tube to central is 50p?
If dynamic pricing meant it gets cheaper when it’s quiet then fine. As long as the maximum stays reasonable and people end paying less than expected then it’s a good traffic shaping policy.
Let’s say overall ticket revenue remains the same, but “losses” are distributed to those that travel regularly during peak hours and the “gains” go to those who use the Tube at quiet times.
The former group will lose their shit and the latter group will keep mostly quiet. The “loser” group will lobby harder to protect their position compared to weak lobbying of the “winner” group, despite their wins/losses being equal in £ terms (this is connected with [loss aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion) bias).
Thus despite the policy being revenue-neutral – and a good idea for balancing demand – it will be hugely controversial, and it is likely that those who have the most to lose will win out over those who have most to gain.
Or alternative idea, central government actually funds transport systems properly
Oh great. So the rich can always take the tube, it the poor will have to wait to see what the surge is before deciding if they get to work on time or not.
The dynamic pricing here is just additional peak/off peak times. They are not talking about dynamic pricing in the sense Uber uses it
Based on the article, the peak fare on Mon n Fri could be less than peak fare on Thu. Not a bad idea
I don’t really get it; surely they’d need to increase revenue overall, otherwise what is the point? Just to spite people commuting at rush hour?
Assuming they do increase revenues overall, I don’t see how anybody would be happy with this – I hate taking the northern line at rush hour as is; now they’re going to charge me more for the displeasure?
Incoming downvotes.
I’d rather the commuters and vulnerable paid less and tourists and leisure travellers paid more.
Why do we have to pay more to go to work over a jolly on a weekend.
I’m interested to know how this would effect national rail tickets that include the tube. I fairly regularly have to make journeys from one side of London to the other (just outside Enfield to Guildford, Surrey). These tickets are already crazy expensive even with my railcard, if anything they should be cheaper, but I wonder if they’d make it more expensive.
Public transport should be free. But that’s an argument for another time.
I’ve started driving from North London to Euston in the evenings rather than taking the tube. It costs me £6 return for what is a 20 minute journey each way. My car costs me about a quid in petrol (of course with all the other running costs not taken into account).
If the dynamic pricing makes that evening trip cheaper I’m all for it. But if I was using it for rush hour and I’m getting charged more whilst travelling like a canned tin of sardines, then they can piss right off.
Implement it on the roads first. Far fairer than a flat rate on VED and fuel duty.
Someone driving down the B2982 in the middle of some woods on their weekly shop should not have to pay the same as someone driving round Piccadilly Circus at 8:22 in the morning. The resource usage is completely incomparable.
well its getting more expensive every year as it is. its most expensive in Europe.
Knowing tfl there will be no fall, only rise. Fuck tfl.
I bet the only times the price will fall is when there are no trains because the fucking signals are out or whatever bs excuse they want to use that day.
I never understand the (ostensible) logic behind dynamic pricing something like public transport.
I can see it makes plenty sense to use this mechanism on more flexible experiences – let’s say you’re a cinema, people could easily choose to go to see a movie on your quiet Sunday morning if you made that a bargain and made your busy Friday evening more expensive.
The tube? I have to get to work at 8:45. That’s just what it is. There is nothing you can do with silly ticketing magic that will make me want to get to work late, or worse still, get out of bed earlier…
Thinking about it this is also going to mess up anyone doing shift work. You want me to cover the closing shift? Why? I’m being paid less when you take out the hiked tube fare for getting there at 6-7
That will be to pay for next years tube strikes when they don’t get 10% increases 😂
They literally just stopped Peak/OffPeak pricing.