https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/ban-on-consequences-exacerbates-attacks-teachers-fails-children/
What do people think about this? I know people who teach and they are all I agreement that inclusion I’m schools is a disaster.
It’s terrible for the educators and for the students and is generally dragging people down rather than bringing up
by Dangerous_Hot_Sauce
26 comments
The SG has chosen to bring all learning down the lowest common denominator- it’s actually a fundamental issue all throughout Scottish thinking which will hurt society, everyone has to be based on the lowest common denominator – you see that anytime taxes are brought up you have those on 30k arguing that those on 43k are rich and should be taxed heavily, you see that in development – in Glasgow the poorest areas are the first to receive any development which isn’t bad but there is literally no investment in the economic centres which could raise revenue for the council to provide better services. It’s just some bizarre Scottish mentality that everyone needs to be equal and it’s better to have everyone losing out than anyone succeeding as that isn’t fair.
It isn’t fair to remove a pupil even if they make learning impossible for every single other pupil so that pupil stays, destroys the class environment, and as a result education is sliding heavily
Behaviour issues is not something that is just happening in Scotland though. It’s all over.
Teachers in Wales are striking because of pupil behaviour
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-67907454
Also seen in England
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/oct/06/disruptive-behaviour-in-english-schools-worse-since-covid-says-outgoing-ofsted-head
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Half the battle is not recognizing how to deal with children and just handing out punishments so that they behave with no explanation as to why.
The do what your told because an adult said so attitude needs to get in the bin.
Also that some of the kids deemed as badly behaved are some kind of neurodivergent (probably undiagnosed) which teachers don’t seem to understand how to deal with and expect them to understand neurotypical thoughts then get annoyed when the kids don’t do whatever they asked because they didn’t understand or the kids get into trouble for not understanding
Also as far as I’m aware removing break times is a common punishment which let’s face it isn’t going to work for anyone let alone a kid who’s wound up in a classroom and then not being allowed to let off any steam.
Gen Alpha in general are just a lost caue, even in America teachers are getting fed up of how they are turning out with all the answering back, lack of learning ability and brain rot.
Should call this gen Skibidi Toilet.
Decrease class sizes, pay teachers better, give more options for non-academically inclined kids that can’t be fucked sitting learning fractions for two hours
In my kids school the kids can’t be removed from the classroom if they are being bad or if they have done something wrong they can’t be punished in any form. So how the hell do they learn that what they did was wrong?
Mandatory public or military service for all school leavers aged 16-18, banning of mobile phones in classrooms, exclusion and expulsion for pupils who continue to reoffend….
I remember staring out the window daydreaming a lot at school, while teachers dealt with other pupils.
Also being off sick with something, might have been chickenpox, was off for two or three weeks and doing all the work the school gave to my mum for me to do while I was off by the middle of the first week.
Secondary school, I remember the classes being separated by ability, and generally smaller, and I did a lot less staring out the window in 3rd-6th year, than I did in secondary 1-2.
Tbh it’s a wider societal issue. People are less tolerant and willing to accept the word no. It doesn’t surprise me that the behaviours of many adults appear to be filtering to an increase in negative behaviour in schools.
Bring back the belt!
Its the parents.
This shit does not ever, fucking, fly with say an indian first gen family. That kid will be working his ass off and if he steps a toe over the line mum and dad come down like a tonne of bricks. Then of course, that demo utterly kill it in exams and future careers funnily enough.
Meanwhile british parents hear their kid has been naughty and blame the parents, or even just dont care.
This was simply not the case 60 years ago, the teacher was always right and the 11 year old boy throwing pens was wrong. Coroporal punishment also helped but its really not needed if parents are involved properly.
We keep having this conversation. White boys do fucking awfully in school, this is why.
Ask ANY teacher (i was one) and theyll tell you immigrant kids are sound, hard working and focused. Danny, the little shit from white parents is the issue. Its remarkable.
I know two teachers who say that the current system is just unworkable. One of them took early retirement to get away from it because things are just getting worse.
Disruptive kids can now pretty much do whatever they want to the detriment of the other 20-30 kids in the class. Bullying has been ignored since I was in school 20 years ago but somehow got worse. The complete lack of ability for teachers to have any authority or dole out any punishment has left them with a bunch of kids who know they can do whatever they want.
Meanwhile emotionally underdeveloped adults are getting jobs within the education system with an agenda to implement nonsense. The breaking point for the teacher that took retirement was an email coming down stating that all classes are to be taught outside during the summer. You know, in the playground. All classes, at the same time.
I think the problem is that people seem to think that you can’t be supportive and empathetic AND have clear boundaries and discipline. The two aren’t mutually exclusive!
You don’t need to beat and denigrate children to discipline them. You can remove them from a situation if it’s becoming dangerous for themselves or others.
Equally, you don’t need to allow children to do anything they want to be supportive and empathetic. There’s a happy medium somewhere where we’re less discipline oriented than a generation or two ago, but we’re not molly-coddling kids.
As someone who attends Scottish secondary school, this report is the most accurate I’ve seen.
It baffles me that my school is held in high regard. The people in charge of this obviously didn’t see my school in its actual light.
it’s all to pot tbh, I have a son in P3 and the amount of actual learning they do is minimal,
Tablet time
Minecraft time
trips to help clean up playground (rewarded by extra time at the 3g pitch instead of class time)
lad in class has extra needs, they take in turn to do activities with him in place of eductaional tasks.
Those miss-behaving get placed in special group activities instead of real punishment
All very vague and leads to very little time actually learning
And yet, if parents would actually just parent their kids, a lot of these issues would go away…
You need streaming. Within schools, and separated out to better schools too. The 11+ exam is the way to do this. There should also be regular opportunity to move up through streams and schools, and to move down. Mobility should be flexible. But those students who can and try to do better need to be helped. Those kids who don’t do well in the traditional classroom environment need to be provided for in ways that match their needs better. Streaming helps every child to thrive in their own way, rather than a rigid forced classroom academic way.
Fuck that, and fuck the nanny state. If weans are being wee cunts, get them out the class and into a detention room with the other rockets. Punishment exercises, lines and letters to parents. Suspension and exclusion.
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Inclusively isn’t a bad thing but it should always be used with understanding and an application of common sense. Both teachers and students should be accountable for their actions, as everyone else is in life.
I’m not surprised the teachers are struggling with the levels of funding cuts. In 7 years we went from 1 PSA per class per day and a full time ASN teacher to 1/2 hr per day per class and an ASN teacher in the school for 2 days a week split between 3 schools and she went on maternity leave for 2 years with no replacement.
No wonder everyone in struggling. The teachers are stretched thin and children who need support can’t get their needs met.
How did we go from being the top of numeracy and literacy in uk to the bottom when they brought in the curriculum for excellence.
The problem is that inclusion hasn’t worked for a lot of kids it’s done to save money, there’s not enough staff in classes to do it properly, last time I said that it wasn’t working because we’re doing it wrong on Reddit and I was called “ableist” even though I stated that my Daughter is not coping in High School.
My tuppence as a primary teacher:
Smaller classes. Also train fewer teachers. Contradiction but at the moment far more are coming out of university each year than there are jobs.
Rethought out curriculum which is properly resourced with clear evaluation guidelines for consistency.
Revaluation of mainstreaming all pupils – is it a good use of my PSAs time to be changing an 8 year old every 2 hours if they’re being paid PEF money to raise attainment? Ditto, if they’re kettling three or four kids who _will not_ go into class?
Actual training on nurture for teachers – trauma in kids is horrible, they need a safe space. They also need clear and codified barriers so consequences are clear, consistent and proportional.
Greater parental support – being a parent is hard, especially of no one gave you a role model to work from growing up.
An absolute reassesement of the current approach to ASD/ADHD. We’re facing a tide. I don’t know why (Diet? Internet? Pollutants?), but really good kids struggle everyday because waiting lists are years long. Yes, some seek a diagnosis, but there’s twice as many who need one who don’t seek or aren’t referred. Meds, some basic CBT and a welcoming approach at school and they can thrive.
I was a teacher in Dundee until 2021 when I quit. I was assaulted by a first year kid who missed exactly one class as a result, and was back the following week. Zero repercussions. Fuck that noise.
I would be absolutely fascinated to hear how many of the commenters lambasting the system being “too nice” and “out of control” or a “mess” have children who have TikTok on their phones
How many of those same parents know what their kids watch on there? who understand that the algorithm for said app is designed to push content which is deliberately rude and obnoxious to gather attention and “engagement” so that’s what they learn…to a lot of thee kids social media isnt real, its all in jest and fun and a joke except when they cyber bully or share illicit content of themselves or others and there’s 0 consequence but majority of Parents wont deprive them of that device or even know what’s on it.
How many of those same parents would be happy banning those devices from schools – cause take them away and about 60% of this is GONE – most incidents in behaviour revolve around phones – filming, texts or the golden oldie of the kid simply being unable to be without it
the other 40% would actually require some to y’know………parent
Theyre not allowed to be disciplined anymore so what do you think the expected outcome will be
The problem is parents. Always is, always has been.