Biden administration ‘ignoring US laws’ on arms transfers to Israel: Ex-senior official

Biden administration ‘ignoring US laws’ on arms transfers to Israel: Ex-senior official

[Music]
hello and welcome to tat Ted FR 24’s
Flagship interview show our guest today
is Josh Paul he served for over a decade
in the state department overseeing
weapon sales to foreign countries he
resigned in October to protest us
position Visa Israel shortly into the
war in Gaza he has since joined the
think tank democracy for the Arab world
no now sorry it’s known as Dawn as a
fellow and he’s with us from Washington
DC thank you very much thank you very
much indeed for having
me so you work 11 years as director in
the state Department’s Bureau of
political military Affairs which deals
with uh us arms transfers and security
cooperation in your resignation letter
you say quote I could not support the
pro provision of Us weapons into the
conflict in Gaza where I knew that would
be used to kill thousands of civilians
Israel has been getting uh billions of
dollars in military US assistance every
year including during several episodes
of war in Gaza so what was the trigger
for you this time to
resign thank you well the difference
this time was really the scale and the
scope of what was unfolding before our
eyes in Gaza with the weapons were that
we were approving uh you know unlike
previous conflicts which had lasted you
know days or a couple of weeks by the
time I resigned 10 days in they already
over almost 4,000 Palestinians dead in
Gaza uh and it was clear from the
statements being made by Israeli
government officials uh as well as from
the number of weapons that they continue
to request and which we continue to
expedite uh that this would be far
beyond anything we had seen before yet
at the same time uh when I raised
concerns which I had done before about
the use of American weapons in that sort
of context uh the use of American
weapons to kill so many civilians uh I
was told that there was no room for any
discussion or debate it was simply our
job to keep approving weapons as quickly
as we could and keep getting them out of
the door as quickly as I could faced
with that disaster on the ground uh and
the inability to debate or discuss the
policy within the American government I
thought it was an important discussion
for the broader American public to be
having and for that to happen I had to
resign right uh in a report uh published
uh just now amnesty is calling uh for
the US military aid to Israel to be
halted saying that us supplied weapons
were involved in several allegations of
violations of international law this is
a similar assessment reached by a group
of independent Experts of which uh you
were part uh do you think that the US
military aid to Israel should be stopped
or suspended or
conditioned so all US military aid is
conditioned under law based on the
recipients practices when it comes to
the human rights record of individual
units and based on them not restricting
the delivery of humanitarian assistance
uh what we see the US doing now in
President Biden’s Administration is not
simply a question of policy should
weapons be cut off should they be
leverage used it is the fact of them
ignoring American laws that apply to
Arms transfers and to security
assistance so before we even get to a
discussion about you know what should
the right policy be let us follow our
own
laws right uh according to New York time
colonist Thomas fredman if Israel mounts
a major military operation in Rafa in
southern Gaza where uh many of the
Palestinians are are now in Dire Straits
uh even uh over the administration’s uh
objection uh there could be a
consideration of restricting certain
armed sales to Israel do you believe
that this is really something that’s
being discussed and could happen I mean
it’s it’s certainly possible I will
believe it when I see it at the same
time if you are concerned about the
possibility of an Israeli invasion in to
Rafa which is something that prime
minister Netanyahu has said repeatedly
he will do with or without to quote a
hostage deal uh then the time to cut off
those weapons is now the time to cut
them off is to prevent them from being
used in Rafa not in the wake of the
operation that would just be pointless
right uh the uh Secretary of State
Anthony blinkin uh is to report to
Congress whether Israel complies uh with
the National Security M memorandum 20 as
it’s known which was issued by President
B Biden whereby Us weapons recipients
are required to prove that they will not
violate International uh law uh Israel
uh pledged that it would abide by this
and now the state department on Monday
April 29th said five units of the
Israeli military uh were found to be
responsible for human rights violation
uh but that nevertheless they will
continue to receive US military backing
what does this stance mean to you well
it certainly sends mixed messages
doesn’t it I think it’s important to
note in the context of those five units
you’re talking about all of the
allegations go back to the West Bank and
date from well before in some cases
several years before uh the current
conflict I think that’s important in the
one sense that it demonstrates that the
US is implicitly saying this did not
begin on October 7th this began uh many
years before and has included gross
violations of human rights uh conducted
by Israeli forces for many years uh when
it comes to whether they will report
Faithfully to Congress uh in their
upcoming report due under President
Biden’s memorandum we will see the
evidence so far is that the Biden
Administration has repeatedly said that
it does not believe that Israel is
violating International humanitarian law
uh at the same time the Biden
Administration has also given
indications it will do all it can uh to
stop International Justice bodies like
the international criminal court from
holding the uh Israeli government and
Israeli Defense Forces accountable so I
would be deeply skeptical that the
report to Congress will provide much in
the way of substance uh but you know we
must keep an open mind and we will see
the evidence is certainly manifest and
is certainly there uh for them to report
fulsomely on what has been going on
right uh there were some indication that
for the first time ever a unit called
Neta Yehuda Battalion in Israel uh would
uh be uh part of a withholding of USA
but you think now that this will not
happen because Israel Israel said it
will provide more information do you
think that this will be buried
essentially so the state department has
said that it is looking at this
information uh it has the state
department has also said the other four
units it was looking at uh will not cut
encounter any cut off of assistance
because they have been remediated or in
other words that the government of
Israel has addressed properly uh the
allegations this is not like the process
I have seen for any other country or any
other security force in the typical Ley
process this is the law that applies the
Ley law um you know when a gross
violation of a rights is identified
assistance is cut off and then it is a
multiple years long process uh to
identify and to work with the country to
ensure that there has been proper
Remediation in the case of Israel we are
relying on the Israeli military justice
system to apply that remediation and the
idea that that system the same system by
the way which puts thousands of children
into administrative detention uh for
indefinite periods of time uh is a
reliable partner and as a trustworthy
partner when it comes to remediating
violations by those same forces uh is
very question questionable right uh
according to a report in the garden a
senior Us official have reviewed uh more
than a dozen incidents of violations uh
by Israel Security Forces since 2020 but
ensured that the US weapons would
continue to flow uh to the very units
responsible for the allegation uh this
includes uh the death of several uh dual
am Palestinian American uh the
journalist Shirin Abu akle uh amand by
the name of Omar Assad to I mean you
were involved with those discussions uh
do you think US government is looking
the other way or even covering up uh
some of those crimes in order to let
this Aid continue to Israel so when it
comes to US citizens in particular there
is a role here not only for the vetting
of the units involved in their deaths
but also for criminal investigations by
the Federal Bureau of Investigation by
the Department of Justice into the
deaths of American citizens violently
overseas uh so where are those
investigations where are the results of
those investigations in addition yes it
has long been my experience and I was
part as you say of the uh process within
the state department to review
allegations against uh Israeli Security
Forces a a unique process by the way for
Israel uh and it is unique as well for
Israel that it is the secretary who has
to make these determinations for every
other country these determinations are
made at a much lower level um and and
yes it was absolutely my experience that
for years we toiled to bring these
concerns forward bring them up to the
secretary have these units designated
under the Ley laws and that there was
never any appetite at the political
level never any willingness at the
political levels of the state department
under any Administration uh to take
action when it came to Israeli
violations of human rights well this
this is a pretty serious allegation this
means that at a political level there is
a decision essentially to violate US law
yes I think that’s exactly right I think
that you know I I was made that sort of
decision is made I think in ways first
of all from very much from the top down
uh and we have seen that in the context
of the arms transfers that we were
talking about earlier uh that there is
just a sort of General directive to move
forward there is also a fear I think on
the part of political appointees within
the state department on the part of
Senate confirmed officials uh that any
criticism of Israel will be a career
killer uh we’ll bring them before
Congress we’ll prevent their you know
confirmations to senior positions uh and
that has sort of crept down into the wit
and uh the Woof and War of the state
department policymaking process uh to
the extent that it is you know really
restraining our ability to follow the
law right uh this would explain why only
very few State Department officials have
resigned like you have so it also
explains why I think there’s been so
little uh debate within the state
department and in fact you heard this
just in the last few days from the most
recent person to resigned Hal RIT the
state department spokesperson Arabic
language spokesperson uh to the Middle
East uh who has said uh that they have
she has never in her career experienced
anything like the inability uh to
discuss and debate uh an issue as she
has in the context of Israel in the last
few months uh that there has been a
Culture of Fear within the state
department uh when it comes to people
raising their voices on this topic right
just as a last questions uh us campuses
at least several of them are seeing uh
Pro Palestinian protest there’s a lot of
uh controversy uh what does it tell
you I mean I think it is a a significant
failing of the American democratic
system at large and then when it comes
to college campuses I think in some ways
first of all it’s a a a replication of
what I saw in the state department where
any concerns are just brushed aside uh
you know I think we should also be very
concerned because where there is one
issue that we cannot speak about there
will surely be other issues to follow
and there’s a very dangerous precedent
being set right now I think as well
let’s be honest you know when it comes
to the uh Palestinian Israeli uh
conflict you know as I have many others
have said for a long time there is no
military solution there is all only a
political solution and the voices have
to be heard and we have to let each
other talk to each other and listen the
same is true in the American political
debate there is no pleasing solution
here there is only this is a political
issue uh and campus administrators
rather than turning to the use of force
should be listening to their students
and moving forward with their students
on their
concerns Josh Paul that’s all we have
time for I want to thank you very much
uh for appearing here from Washington DC
and I want to thank you all for watching
this show
[Music]

Josh Paul resigned from a senior position at the US State Department back in October to protest the US position vis-à-vis Israel’s war in Gaza. In an interview with FRANCE 24, he said he did so because of the scale and scope of the conflict. “It was clear (…) that this would be far beyond anything we had seen before,” he declared. Paul also said that the Biden administration “is ignoring American laws that apply to arms transfers and to security assistance” and noted a “lack of appetite” at the State Department to address Israeli human rights violations.

Read more about this story in our article: https://f24.my/AIYV.y

🔔 Subscribe to France 24 now: https://f24.my/YTen
🔴 LIVE – Watch FRANCE 24 English 24/7 here: https://f24.my/YTliveEN

🌍 Read the latest International News and Top Stories: https://www.france24.com/en/

Like us on Facebook: https://f24.my/FBen
Follow us on X (Twitter): https://f24.my/Xen
Browse the news in pictures on Instagram: https://f24.my/IGen
Discover our TikTok videos: https://f24.my/TKen
Get the latest top stories on Telegram: https://f24.my/TGen