There is a big bubble up for popping, so prepare for war, younger generation.
It is a sad truth, but we must accept that:
– we can’t push the mountains away to create more flatland.
– we have voted YES to preventing the agricultural coutryside from being eaten away by new building plots (which is a good thing)
So in short, the age of « affordable » house-buying is pretty much over.
EDIT: I am NOT a homeowner myself
Interestingly, were we are at home (lake of Zurich region) we even can’t afford buying a house for our family with a top 5% household income… It’s all just about capital and inheritance, no chance earning the money you need for a single family house even with good careers (let alone at an age at which it would be interesting for raising your kids in it).
Wtf is that last statement from the ubs guy? If you look only at people who can afford a home it looks less dramatic? Am I understanding something wrong?
It’s artificial limitation of land, there is plenty of agricultural land that would be suitable for rezoning. Sadly I don’t see that happening any time soon
different view point and a controversial opinion, but the idea/dream/goal that everyone has to start a family, pop out a few kids and move into a single family home is outdated and has always had a deadline looming, it’s only becoming more visible now. this idea does not scale, period.
it is also increasingly unfair, as the more private ownership you have, the more inefficient allocation to living space you get, esp in a small country with even smaller usable residential area – grandma alone in her 3 story house, lucky artist kid with no income inheriting that house a few years later thanks to the genetic lottery, etc.
i rather have large, tall (yes, revise those zoning laws) buildings owned by pensions funds and other institutional investors and keep a renters market because it makes the allocation more efficient and everyone profits from the appreciating assets instead of just a few and combats things like NIMBYism
How many home owners actually bought the property vs inherited it? Oldest son always gets the farm…
Don’t buy houses here. If you want a house, move out. Vote for legislation that hits the most egregious space-wasting owners (higher property tax, tax on low density housing), so that owning becomes less lucrative. Pay for construction with public money and make these apartments available for low rent as an alternative to owning.
Or keep things the way they are, but shut up about it. If you don’t want change don’t fucking complain, OK?
What’s the definition of top earner?
I guess only properties in the region people are already living in are considered?
The area of Switzerland is divided as follows: 30% agricultural, 30% forests, 30% bodies of water, glaciers, and rocks, 6 % building zones, and the rest is rounding error (or I forgot if agriculture is 30 %, 31 %, etc.). Some people managed to convince the voters of a narrative that “the whole of Switzerland will be covered in concrete if we do not limit building zones” and that we need the agriculture land for “selbstversorgung”. These people (mostly boomers) have become the richest generation in Swiss history by owning an asset class with artificially limited supply.
If 6 % is a lot or not is up to you to decide.
I’m middle aged (40+), have a good job and cant afford buying… so no need to explain to my kids, they see it with us.
All my friends who are owners (besides the bank part), have double incomes and/or major inheritances. 3 of my cousins just sold all their parents left them for over 10m… and their parents already bought each of them an apartment while they were still alive. Same for 3 other of my cousins… but I am the only one with a university degree and a high paying job… pretty frustrating.
Add a new tax (something crazy like 5% of value if building) on flats/houses rented out. A lot of landlords might be motivated to sell their flats. Owning to rent should be marginally profitable endevour
Well, that’s the logical consequence in a ponzi schemed economy.
A ponzi schemed system that built itself around easily extractible and cheap oil. We’re leaving that era of cheap energy and more and more people are feeling it.
Just hypnotize yourself with the idea that we’re doing a transition of energy (instead of accumulation) and then you can believe that we’ll “switch” to hydrogen soon and it’ll be all dandy ! :]
We stop voting for the people that will continue to make this system worse.
at my age (early 30) my father was solo feeding a family of 5, house with huge garden, 2 cars, we went every year 2 week skiing 2 week summer holiday flying somewhere, dog and cat blabla and hasnt had the need and pressure to go to uni and do 500billion diplomas to make a career in It sales.
swiss population exploded and yet we have ancient laws and are bulding like nothing changed in the past 20years to the benefit of boomer property owners
All over the world….
i agree it should be easier, but ownership is Not a Right.
talking about future generation, reclaiming agricultural land for building goes exactly against the future generation
Again I agree it should be easier than it is today but it is not a right and as they say in German “Jeder ist sein Glückes Schmiedes“
we don’t live in a egalitarian society but a capitalistic one so…
And I had to argue about the median ibcome being the wrong measurement for wealth lol
Now this guy say exactly that and I ask myself if people really understand statistics bias
The people voted several times for uncontrolled migration. Threatened with wealth decline and promised economic growth coming if they vote against.
Turns out that may be true in total figures but for the normal person it means having to share the cake with more people. Harder to get a good jobs and houses. Raised price levels and competition by these “super educated”. Now they start to build bubbles that favour themselves.
Could it be that wealth and economic stagnation would have benefited the individual more?
Time for an inheritance tax, 50 million cap for tax free is a great start, 10 million would be my preferred limit. Because nobody is sad about getting 10 million for free and anything more is a nice extra. Even with a tax rate of 50% on anything above these thresholds yields the ones inheriting a lot for no work.
i tried to argue with a friend that this is a problem but she just argues that ppl have to work harder 😭😭
Yes, how to break this illusion? Those who did well, did teally well and are no the majority. Are the ones who buy at Globus.
For the rest of us is trying to make ends up and starting to pay rent with the credit card.
I guess the worst is that this is not being explained as a systemic issue. Nor has a social contract that was broken. It was an “indiviual faillure”. You were “impacted by the reorg?”. “AI killed your job?” “Over 55?” So sorry.
Okay guys, I would consider ourselves a middleclass income (double earned 100k-110k/y, maybe I’m delusional), with two kids. And we were able to buy a house in Niederglatt. Was it easy? nope, nearly 10 years no vacation, no car, no weekend trips and every expense was discussed if really needed.
No inheritance and no loans besides the mortages for the house. It was hard, but really worth it.
BUT the house was ‘cheap’ for the region/neighborhood (~1mio). and I got a GA from my employer. So, we might be lucky, but we also did our big part. But we wouldn’t have done this any longer than this 10y.
ALSO I acknowledge that’s no longer that easy as it was 30y-40y ago.
I know this will get me downvoted to oblivion, but truth sometimes hurt more than karma losses.
No need, they know and aren’t in the position to change things. Tell it to the old farts who still live in their little bubble, thinking that young people are just lazy
This is, bizarrely, a side effect of the world being a complete mess and CHF being a safe-haven. Strong CHF leads to deflation/low interest rates which leads to cheap mortgages for those who can get them.
Perversely, rents are actually relatively cheap vs property prices. The rental yield in my Canton wouldn’t even cover the mortgage.
It is a crappy situation though and not good socially. I don’t really see what the solution is. Owners already have to pay income tax on the potential rental income on the property.
Tell that to the older generations. Keep hearing that “the younger don’t want to work”, “they all got too much money”, “they all drive BMW and Mercedes” and more stupid shit like that. The biggest problem, not only in Switzerland, is in my opinion, the older generations. The hate they have against everyone else is sickening. I have to hear things like that on a daily basis at work, sometimes it makes me want to punch them, but I keep telling myself it won’t bring anything good to me, they are just ignorant.
The same thing you say when they ask why the environment is dead, the ground water and glaciers gone, the living standard is miserable, everything is polluted and the resources are depleted.
“At least it was good for the economy. (And by economy we mean rich people)”
Do we think 3 people relationships will become more popular?
or will 2 couples split a house?
what are ways people are going around this?
I did the “end up back at your parents house for a few years” bit
28 comments
There is a big bubble up for popping, so prepare for war, younger generation.
It is a sad truth, but we must accept that:
– we can’t push the mountains away to create more flatland.
– we have voted YES to preventing the agricultural coutryside from being eaten away by new building plots (which is a good thing)
So in short, the age of « affordable » house-buying is pretty much over.
EDIT: I am NOT a homeowner myself
Interestingly, were we are at home (lake of Zurich region) we even can’t afford buying a house for our family with a top 5% household income… It’s all just about capital and inheritance, no chance earning the money you need for a single family house even with good careers (let alone at an age at which it would be interesting for raising your kids in it).
Wtf is that last statement from the ubs guy? If you look only at people who can afford a home it looks less dramatic? Am I understanding something wrong?
It’s artificial limitation of land, there is plenty of agricultural land that would be suitable for rezoning. Sadly I don’t see that happening any time soon
different view point and a controversial opinion, but the idea/dream/goal that everyone has to start a family, pop out a few kids and move into a single family home is outdated and has always had a deadline looming, it’s only becoming more visible now. this idea does not scale, period.
it is also increasingly unfair, as the more private ownership you have, the more inefficient allocation to living space you get, esp in a small country with even smaller usable residential area – grandma alone in her 3 story house, lucky artist kid with no income inheriting that house a few years later thanks to the genetic lottery, etc.
i rather have large, tall (yes, revise those zoning laws) buildings owned by pensions funds and other institutional investors and keep a renters market because it makes the allocation more efficient and everyone profits from the appreciating assets instead of just a few and combats things like NIMBYism
How many home owners actually bought the property vs inherited it? Oldest son always gets the farm…
Don’t buy houses here. If you want a house, move out. Vote for legislation that hits the most egregious space-wasting owners (higher property tax, tax on low density housing), so that owning becomes less lucrative. Pay for construction with public money and make these apartments available for low rent as an alternative to owning.
Or keep things the way they are, but shut up about it. If you don’t want change don’t fucking complain, OK?
What’s the definition of top earner?
I guess only properties in the region people are already living in are considered?
The area of Switzerland is divided as follows: 30% agricultural, 30% forests, 30% bodies of water, glaciers, and rocks, 6 % building zones, and the rest is rounding error (or I forgot if agriculture is 30 %, 31 %, etc.). Some people managed to convince the voters of a narrative that “the whole of Switzerland will be covered in concrete if we do not limit building zones” and that we need the agriculture land for “selbstversorgung”. These people (mostly boomers) have become the richest generation in Swiss history by owning an asset class with artificially limited supply.
If 6 % is a lot or not is up to you to decide.
I’m middle aged (40+), have a good job and cant afford buying… so no need to explain to my kids, they see it with us.
All my friends who are owners (besides the bank part), have double incomes and/or major inheritances. 3 of my cousins just sold all their parents left them for over 10m… and their parents already bought each of them an apartment while they were still alive. Same for 3 other of my cousins… but I am the only one with a university degree and a high paying job… pretty frustrating.
Add a new tax (something crazy like 5% of value if building) on flats/houses rented out. A lot of landlords might be motivated to sell their flats. Owning to rent should be marginally profitable endevour
Well, that’s the logical consequence in a ponzi schemed economy.
A ponzi schemed system that built itself around easily extractible and cheap oil. We’re leaving that era of cheap energy and more and more people are feeling it.
Just hypnotize yourself with the idea that we’re doing a transition of energy (instead of accumulation) and then you can believe that we’ll “switch” to hydrogen soon and it’ll be all dandy ! :]
We stop voting for the people that will continue to make this system worse.
at my age (early 30) my father was solo feeding a family of 5, house with huge garden, 2 cars, we went every year 2 week skiing 2 week summer holiday flying somewhere, dog and cat blabla and hasnt had the need and pressure to go to uni and do 500billion diplomas to make a career in It sales.
swiss population exploded and yet we have ancient laws and are bulding like nothing changed in the past 20years to the benefit of boomer property owners
All over the world….
i agree it should be easier, but ownership is Not a Right.
talking about future generation, reclaiming agricultural land for building goes exactly against the future generation
Again I agree it should be easier than it is today but it is not a right and as they say in German “Jeder ist sein Glückes Schmiedes“
we don’t live in a egalitarian society but a capitalistic one so…
And I had to argue about the median ibcome being the wrong measurement for wealth lol
Now this guy say exactly that and I ask myself if people really understand statistics bias
The people voted several times for uncontrolled migration. Threatened with wealth decline and promised economic growth coming if they vote against.
Turns out that may be true in total figures but for the normal person it means having to share the cake with more people. Harder to get a good jobs and houses. Raised price levels and competition by these “super educated”. Now they start to build bubbles that favour themselves.
Could it be that wealth and economic stagnation would have benefited the individual more?
Time for an inheritance tax, 50 million cap for tax free is a great start, 10 million would be my preferred limit. Because nobody is sad about getting 10 million for free and anything more is a nice extra. Even with a tax rate of 50% on anything above these thresholds yields the ones inheriting a lot for no work.
i tried to argue with a friend that this is a problem but she just argues that ppl have to work harder 😭😭
Yes, how to break this illusion? Those who did well, did teally well and are no the majority. Are the ones who buy at Globus.
For the rest of us is trying to make ends up and starting to pay rent with the credit card.
I guess the worst is that this is not being explained as a systemic issue. Nor has a social contract that was broken. It was an “indiviual faillure”. You were “impacted by the reorg?”. “AI killed your job?” “Over 55?” So sorry.
Okay guys, I would consider ourselves a middleclass income (double earned 100k-110k/y, maybe I’m delusional), with two kids. And we were able to buy a house in Niederglatt. Was it easy? nope, nearly 10 years no vacation, no car, no weekend trips and every expense was discussed if really needed.
No inheritance and no loans besides the mortages for the house. It was hard, but really worth it.
BUT the house was ‘cheap’ for the region/neighborhood (~1mio). and I got a GA from my employer. So, we might be lucky, but we also did our big part. But we wouldn’t have done this any longer than this 10y.
ALSO I acknowledge that’s no longer that easy as it was 30y-40y ago.
I know this will get me downvoted to oblivion, but truth sometimes hurt more than karma losses.
No need, they know and aren’t in the position to change things. Tell it to the old farts who still live in their little bubble, thinking that young people are just lazy
This is, bizarrely, a side effect of the world being a complete mess and CHF being a safe-haven. Strong CHF leads to deflation/low interest rates which leads to cheap mortgages for those who can get them.
Perversely, rents are actually relatively cheap vs property prices. The rental yield in my Canton wouldn’t even cover the mortgage.
It is a crappy situation though and not good socially. I don’t really see what the solution is. Owners already have to pay income tax on the potential rental income on the property.
Tell that to the older generations. Keep hearing that “the younger don’t want to work”, “they all got too much money”, “they all drive BMW and Mercedes” and more stupid shit like that. The biggest problem, not only in Switzerland, is in my opinion, the older generations. The hate they have against everyone else is sickening. I have to hear things like that on a daily basis at work, sometimes it makes me want to punch them, but I keep telling myself it won’t bring anything good to me, they are just ignorant.
The same thing you say when they ask why the environment is dead, the ground water and glaciers gone, the living standard is miserable, everything is polluted and the resources are depleted.
“At least it was good for the economy. (And by economy we mean rich people)”
Do we think 3 people relationships will become more popular?
or will 2 couples split a house?
what are ways people are going around this?
I did the “end up back at your parents house for a few years” bit
Comments are closed.