“Mörser/Mortar16” has an open roof | No protection against drones: Federal government still spends 600 million on new tanks
by BezugssystemCH1903
“Mörser/Mortar16” has an open roof | No protection against drones: Federal government still spends 600 million on new tanks
by BezugssystemCH1903
16 comments
Archived link without paywall:
http://archive.today/2025.07.27-020834/https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/teurer-moerser-16-kritik-an-neuem-schweizer-panzer-909233603596
Translation:
>__”Mörser/ Mortar 16″ has an open roof__
>__No protection against drones: Confederation still spends 600 million on new tanks__
>__After a long wait, Switzerland has received modern mine launchers. However, the expensive weapon system is now being called into question – due to the experiences from the war in Ukraine.__
>>Brief summary:
>>-The first Cobra mortar systems recently reached the army after a seven-year delay.
>>-Peter Hegglin, a member of the Centre Council of States, calls for a review of the armoured mortar due to the threat posed by drones.
>>-The Swiss Federal Audit Office criticises the non-transparent procurement procedure for the mortar.
>>-The Defence Department defends the open gun hatch despite its increased susceptibility to drones.
>The weapon is called Cobra and is praised as a “state-of-the-art mortar system” that impresses with “maximum firepower”. This is how the manufacturer, the federal armaments company Ruag, describes it on the Internet. The Confederation has ordered a total of 48 “Mörser 16”, as the project is officially called, for 600 million Swiss francs. The Cobras will be mounted on Piranha wheeled infantry fighting vehicles. The first armoured mortars arrived with the army a few weeks ago – seven years later than originally planned.
>However, a bird’s eye view of the weapon raises the question of whether it is really that good. The roof hatch has to be opened to fire. The gun, soldiers and ammunition are not only exposed to wind and weather. They also become an easy target for drones equipped with explosive devices. Low-cost drones have become an important weapon, especially in the Ukraine war.
>__Centre Ständerat: “Very dangerous” for soldiers__
>Doubts are now being raised as to whether the procurement still makes sense. “We need to seriously reconsider the introduction of the mobile mortar 16,” says Peter Hegglin, member of the Centre Council of States. Based on the experience of the Ukraine war with drones, an open gun chamber is “very dangerous” and problematic. “I have major concerns as to whether the system is suitable for use by troops and whether it protects our soldiers sufficiently.”
>The project is not only controversial in politics, but also in military circles. Rudolf P. Schaub, a former lieutenant colonel and retired lawyer, pointed out the shortcomings of the armoured mortar years ago and described it as a “faulty design”. “The war in Ukraine confirms my concerns,” he says. “The mortar 16 is and remains a cripple.” In an emergency, only “piles of scrap metal” would remain after a drone attack.
>__Financial audit criticised procurement__
>A decade ago, the Nemo system from the Finnish armaments company Patria was on the shortlist alongside the Swiss-made tank mortar. Nemo has the advantage that the turret is closed. According to the manufacturer, the armoured vehicle only needs ten seconds to change position after firing. “Federal Councillor Ueli Maurer stopped the procurement of Nemo, even though the contracts were ready to be signed,” says Schaub. That was a big mistake.
>Five years ago, the Swiss Federal Audit Office already strongly criticised the procurement process. The procurement of the mortar 16 was “difficult to comprehend” and the procedure had shortcomings, the report stated. There had been no actual competition and the selection of suppliers had been “politically influenced” according to various statements. In 2015, when the type decision was made, only the Finnish system was ready for series production; the Swiss armoured mortar was still at an early stage of development.
>According to an internal army report from 2020, the Mortar 16 only partially or not at all fulfilled more than half of the criteria analysed during a test. Due to the open gun chamber, various problems were identified during operations in rain, snowfall or at night.
>__Army confirms: No “direct drone defence”__
>The Federal Armaments Office is now attempting to correct this picture: “Contrary to other reports, the Mortar 16 has always been capable of firing in all weather conditions, day and night,” it writes in response to an enquiry. The points of improvement described as deficiencies have been rectified for series production. Its suitability for troop use is still valid.
>However, the army admits that the Mortar 16 “does not have a directly integrated drone defence system”. When the gun hatch is open, the armoured mortar is “more susceptible to drone attacks”. However, this only applies during the firing phase, which is of short duration. When the hatch is closed, the system has “adequate ballistic protection”. At the time of the procurement decision, the choice of an open gun chamber was made “consciously with its advantages and disadvantages”.
>The federal government sees no reason to cancel the introduction. Around 460 million francs have already been spent on the new armoured mortar.
>Meanwhile, the army is already joking: the armoured mortar is already good. If the buzzing of drones is heard, the crew can quickly jump out of the vehicle and get to safety thanks to the open hatch.
Meh, sounds like a lot of post factum armchairing.
So perfect for Reddit!
Yaaay… army mafia/ lobbies go brrrrrr
Meanwhile in public sectors: we don’t have any money sorry, we will have to cut your budgets. Oh that big pile of gold? Nah sorry it’s another department, can’t do anything about it ever.
once again a product that the economics of MIC requested and not what a small nation’s defense army needs!
They say generals prepare to fight the last war rather than the next one.
But still, during my army service, I believed large troop numbers were unnecessary, thinking modern conflicts would be dominated by air power and mechanized units. However, the war in Ukraine has demonstrated that the need for infantry and trench warfare is still very much alive. So who knows…
Drones are just a fad
best life is cabrio drive
By the way, what happened to the F35 ~~deal~~ fraud meanwhile?
To be fair, this project started before drones were even a thing on a battlefield. Adding features costs a lot of money, and it’s clear the army doesn’t have any, sooo
That’s peanuts compared to the airplanes.
I can imagine that this project started well before people realized xiaomi drone with a shell duct taped to it is the apex predator on modern battlefield.
kurz nach der ausserdienststellung der pz mw wurde der patria amos in finland eingeführt…aber me het ja wider säuber öppis müesse bastle 🫠
On the otherhand a basic drone can carry a payload that easily breaks the top armor anyway. So ooen or close doesnt make a huge difference. For drone defense specialized systems will be needed that acompany the troops.
Well, Switzerland bought the completely and utterly useless F-35. They surely need a tank to match that criteria?
I don’t really see the issue with the Mörser16. It is a mobile artillery concept that considers high mobility to be the best armor. Many armies have switched to this concept, even for 155mm artillery. Yes, the crew is more exposed during shooting, but they’re also supposed to do that under 3 minutes and then leave the area before the enemy counter barrage or drones reach them.
What I want to know is the list of politicians who will pay for the CHF 2+ billions extra costs of those overpriced american fighter bombers. And let’s be real, it won’t be 2 billions in the end, it will be 10. They had to cheat left and right to get the original envelope under 6 billion: less flight hours, spare parts only for a year or two, not enough ammunition (which will now have to be bought separately), no provisioned costs for upgrades (the jet engines are already obsolete and will have to be upgraded to the new engine) etc etc.
If there is an army that should shift 90% of its budget to AI and unmanned aerials it is Swiss Army. Instead they are buying G-wagens from Mercedes – the worst SUV military could have.
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