Europe’s failures on defence will cost it: for all the bold talk of protecting Ukraine, President Trump is due to meet Putin for a summit that will involve little or no European participation

https://www.thetimes.com/article/bec0e657-7b4a-417c-9b26-801c53034ad3

by Flimsy_Pudding1362

13 comments

  2. Which means it has zero chance of success. In any case this is just Putin stringing Trump along as usual in order to avoid secondary sanctions on Russia’s gas and oil customers India and China.

  3. So the message to the world: get yourself a few nukes and you too can do what the hell you want!

  4. Yes, this is on Europe, too. We should have pressured our leaders but there’s zero will, just an avalanche of excuses every time a weak decision by particuar countries is mentioned.

  5. I agree that Europe has failed massively in defense but I also feel that America has turned their backs on allies of the past 80 years. I would love to know how much software and hardware Europe buy from America each year. I would guess it is quite a bit.

  6. And people yelled at me and delete my comment for saying Europe ain’t doing enough for their defence industry at the beginning of this year. Seriously, what do you expect? Trump got thrown out of the office. His supporters worship him like god and his support rate is still around 40% despite everything he did. But this comment gonna get downvoted anyway. And probably for the best for Ukrainian to consider mass immigration right now.

  7. Europe didn’t really fail Ukraine beyond generally talking a big game with inadequate resources.

    The Trump specific strategy of trying to bully Ukraine into giving parts of Ukraine to Russia for a pointless fake peace which would just serve to let Russia rebuild its shattered army is however a giant failure.

    Europe stood by Ukraine during that particular failure.

    Europe is probably aware that this round of US, russian talks without Ukraine is more of the same shit and doesn’t need to be there.

  8. I mean yes but I’m not sure how Europe is supposed to prevent Trump and Putin from meeting in Alaska…

  9. I agree and disagree. Trump doesn’t decide peace without Ukraine or Europe. The difference here is that Europe is already defending Ukraine, in fact, America at this point is just being generous selling weapons and making money, while Europe is buying them to give to Ukraine. America can be in talks because their support is unpredictable. They can cut the support and try to force a defeat, or they can improve the support and try to give Ukraine a stronger hand in dealing with Putin during negotiations. Europe’s position is unwavering. Putin and Russia sees Trump’s dillydallying around and flirting as a sign of weakness to exploit. In Russia, they have the hope of dragging the war on long enough for Western support to falter, because they know Americans will get bored one day. If they were met with unwavering European and American long term support for Ukraine, Russia would lose morale and would not see any benefits from keeping the war going on long term.

  10. European lack of participation in these talks has bugger all to do with the state of European defense and everything to do with the US governments submission to Russia.

  11. and yet, any deal Trump attempts to make will be dead in the water the moment Europe decline to go along with it… (a good thing, because Trump’s ‘deals’ usually involve gifting nations to enemies of the state)

  12. Putler and Trump can’t decide Ukraine’s future on their own. It’s Putler and Trump who don’t want Europe involved in negotiations, it should be allowed, a Zelensky, Trump, Putler meeting would result in Zelensky being bulled as he was at the Oval Office, someone from the EU or UK needs to be there with him.

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