The district in the second photo was built after 2000, bruh…
Właśnie o tym myślałem i problem nie do końca leży w kapitalizmie a raczej mentalności projektantów, gdzie w Polsce można zauważyć projektowanie “wyspowe”, czyli w danym miejscu zrobimy tak i tak nie zważając na otoczenie a projektować i budować powinno się holistycznie z szacunkiem i wpływem zarówno w i ze strony zewnętrznej. Na zachodzie również mamy kapitalizm ale otoczenie i środowisko wygląda zupełnie inaczej.
Ale tak, zgodzę się że w poprzednich czasach projektowanie przestrzeni było lepsze chociaż też wiele pozostawiało do życzenia.
I like both tbh
It’s a “Bird shit architecture”. The communist urban planning looks better only from above.
Nie no bez przesady, nie jedyna. Mozna komuchow nie lubic ale to jednak komuchy wprowadzily w Polsce powszechna edukacje, sluzbe zdrowia, emerytury, na pewno cos tam jeszcze dobrego wprowadzili. To, ze to potem wszystko i tak nie dzialalo to rowniez odpowiadaja za to komunisci, bo co z tego, ze szpitale i lekarze sa, jak placi im sie gowno, zeby tylko sie “zlodzieje” nie dorobily albo nie maja czym leczyc?
What a bold statement. Have you seen khrushchevkas?
This is what I always observe. Maybe modern buildings are better finished and you do not fight with curved walls (unless it is patodeveloper). But the density of building on modern housing estates is like 3x higher, or even more. As if they had made it a point of honor to build as much as legally possible and not a square meter less. Not only do they not respect their own space, but also that of others, often building right on the property line, blocking the light from residents of older buildings. I know we have a housing crisis, but building regulations in Poland still need to be tightened up considerably.
wow i grew up next to slonechne back in the day (would go to their school cause they had a swimming pool)
Communism and capitalism don’t do urban planning, local governments do.
I disagree. Społem is a great feature in places that would be otherwise abandoned by biedronka etc. There are also other things like education and combating homelessness, but I guess people don’t care about things that can’t be described with a picture.
Wait, what’s wrong with the second picture? It’s a super comfortable, cozy, and beautiful neighborhood. The design is consistent, the buildings aren’t too tall, every one has underground parking, and there are tons of cafés and shops. Public transport isn’t perfect, but they even launched a tram here recently. (I live here)
except the most well liked parts of every city are from pre ww2
no, its just the shitty urban planning laws in poland. other countries, including most of our neighbours, have managed to figure out urban planning and force developers to comply
Mostly because they need a lot of greenspace radiating from downtowns to safely bring in tanks in case of a revolt. The most dangerous location for a tank is under a second story window.
*mY kIdS hAvE nOwHeRe tO pLaY wItH tHeIr fRiEnDs aNd i cAn’T fInD a bEnCh tO sIt dOwN aNd tAlK tO mY nEiGhBoRs iN tHiS eViL cApItAlIsT aRcHiTeCtUrE!!!1!1!*
Nie zgodzę się. Za komuny powstało od groma idiotycznych osiedli, w których lokalizację budynków wyznaczał chyba rzut kostką na planszę. W połączeniu z brakiem miejsc parkingowych – w końcu za PRL-u mało kto mógł sobie pozwolić na samochód – mamy dzisiaj marne efekty tego planowania.
Nie przypisywałbym tego do jednego czy drugiego systemu. Mieszkam w Luksemburgu i tutaj budowane są raczej całe kwartały, jest park, jest szkoła, są sklepy, jest trochę pomniejszych terenów zielonych tu i tam.
Agree, the “commie blocks” are the best thing to come out from the communist period
Czy to ten staw co go przestawiali w filmie Poszukiwany/Poszukiwana?
I actually hate how wrong this opinion is! There are so many misconceptions there:
*”In communism all the estates were built with amenities and now new developments don’t have any amenities!”*
This is blatantly false. Communist estates were almost always lacking basic infrastructure for years or even decades after completion. They ***now*** have this infrastructure but that’s because 30-40 years have passed since the last of them were completed. But if you read newspapers from the era, or even watch TV shows and moves like Alternatywy 4 or Czterdziestolatek, you’ll see people complained about lack of schools, medical offices, shops and greenery for years.
It’s really not that different from current new developments. There were of course some flagship estates that got many of the amenities right away. But most of them didn’t.
*”There is space between buildings, while newer estates are super packed”*
This is a bad thing! It combines the worst parts about city living (small apartments in blocks) with worst parts of suburban living (car dependency).
You may say – wait a minute, all of them have transit connections. That’s true but only because they’re still overcrowded for the most part and that they’re centrally located. Consider this: a 1974 normatyw expected a family of four to live on 55 sqm, and that was actually an increase from a previous normatyw (according to which that same family would only get 45 sqm). A 55 sqm Polish apartment has 3 or even 4 cramped rooms; a comparable Western European apartment would only have 2 rooms. If you eliminated overcrowding from these apartments, population density of communist era estates would drop to the higher range of western suburban neighborhoods, making public transit no longer viable there.
A telling example: [neighborhoods](https://maps.app.goo.gl/QWh5wRQTdD7VLGG47) circling Brussels downtown are mostly 3-4 story town houses with large green courtyards and achieve population density of over 20,000 people per square kilometer. At that density level, it makes sense to run a bus every 2-3 minutes, drill a subway or a fast train. I don’t think most people would say they’re cramped either. By comparison, most dense Polish communist-era neighborhoods barely achieve 10,000 people per square kilometer (and often drop to as low as 5,000), a density more comparable to [suburban](https://maps.app.goo.gl/P96NRnUYVi8P1etPA) Dutch neighborhoods.
You could post any bullshit from the whole Poland and you decided to post Wilanow, one of the best planned districts in capitalism times?
Everything in this photo is right, streets were pre planned, the height of buildings is strictly restricted etc. Its a work of good masterplan.
You could post Bialoleka, Las, Pruszkow and choose this exact planned place lol
23 comments
> communism
The district in the second photo was built after 2000, bruh…
Właśnie o tym myślałem i problem nie do końca leży w kapitalizmie a raczej mentalności projektantów, gdzie w Polsce można zauważyć projektowanie “wyspowe”, czyli w danym miejscu zrobimy tak i tak nie zważając na otoczenie a projektować i budować powinno się holistycznie z szacunkiem i wpływem zarówno w i ze strony zewnętrznej. Na zachodzie również mamy kapitalizm ale otoczenie i środowisko wygląda zupełnie inaczej.
Ale tak, zgodzę się że w poprzednich czasach projektowanie przestrzeni było lepsze chociaż też wiele pozostawiało do życzenia.
I like both tbh
It’s a “Bird shit architecture”. The communist urban planning looks better only from above.
Nie no bez przesady, nie jedyna. Mozna komuchow nie lubic ale to jednak komuchy wprowadzily w Polsce powszechna edukacje, sluzbe zdrowia, emerytury, na pewno cos tam jeszcze dobrego wprowadzili. To, ze to potem wszystko i tak nie dzialalo to rowniez odpowiadaja za to komunisci, bo co z tego, ze szpitale i lekarze sa, jak placi im sie gowno, zeby tylko sie “zlodzieje” nie dorobily albo nie maja czym leczyc?
What a bold statement. Have you seen khrushchevkas?
This is what I always observe. Maybe modern buildings are better finished and you do not fight with curved walls (unless it is patodeveloper). But the density of building on modern housing estates is like 3x higher, or even more. As if they had made it a point of honor to build as much as legally possible and not a square meter less. Not only do they not respect their own space, but also that of others, often building right on the property line, blocking the light from residents of older buildings. I know we have a housing crisis, but building regulations in Poland still need to be tightened up considerably.
wow i grew up next to slonechne back in the day (would go to their school cause they had a swimming pool)
Communism and capitalism don’t do urban planning, local governments do.
I disagree. Społem is a great feature in places that would be otherwise abandoned by biedronka etc. There are also other things like education and combating homelessness, but I guess people don’t care about things that can’t be described with a picture.
Wait, what’s wrong with the second picture? It’s a super comfortable, cozy, and beautiful neighborhood. The design is consistent, the buildings aren’t too tall, every one has underground parking, and there are tons of cafés and shops. Public transport isn’t perfect, but they even launched a tram here recently. (I live here)
except the most well liked parts of every city are from pre ww2
no, its just the shitty urban planning laws in poland. other countries, including most of our neighbours, have managed to figure out urban planning and force developers to comply
Mostly because they need a lot of greenspace radiating from downtowns to safely bring in tanks in case of a revolt. The most dangerous location for a tank is under a second story window.
*mY kIdS hAvE nOwHeRe tO pLaY wItH tHeIr fRiEnDs aNd i cAn’T fInD a bEnCh tO sIt dOwN aNd tAlK tO mY nEiGhBoRs iN tHiS eViL cApItAlIsT aRcHiTeCtUrE!!!1!1!*
https://preview.redd.it/vripdi875tif1.png?width=3916&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f683436d2ad5b342432e2e7eb4d2349ce001c3f
🤡 Bozos
Are you nuts?
Nie zgodzę się. Za komuny powstało od groma idiotycznych osiedli, w których lokalizację budynków wyznaczał chyba rzut kostką na planszę. W połączeniu z brakiem miejsc parkingowych – w końcu za PRL-u mało kto mógł sobie pozwolić na samochód – mamy dzisiaj marne efekty tego planowania.
Nie przypisywałbym tego do jednego czy drugiego systemu. Mieszkam w Luksemburgu i tutaj budowane są raczej całe kwartały, jest park, jest szkoła, są sklepy, jest trochę pomniejszych terenów zielonych tu i tam.
Agree, the “commie blocks” are the best thing to come out from the communist period
Czy to ten staw co go przestawiali w filmie Poszukiwany/Poszukiwana?
I actually hate how wrong this opinion is! There are so many misconceptions there:
*”In communism all the estates were built with amenities and now new developments don’t have any amenities!”*
This is blatantly false. Communist estates were almost always lacking basic infrastructure for years or even decades after completion. They ***now*** have this infrastructure but that’s because 30-40 years have passed since the last of them were completed. But if you read newspapers from the era, or even watch TV shows and moves like Alternatywy 4 or Czterdziestolatek, you’ll see people complained about lack of schools, medical offices, shops and greenery for years.
It’s really not that different from current new developments. There were of course some flagship estates that got many of the amenities right away. But most of them didn’t.
*”There is space between buildings, while newer estates are super packed”*
This is a bad thing! It combines the worst parts about city living (small apartments in blocks) with worst parts of suburban living (car dependency).
You may say – wait a minute, all of them have transit connections. That’s true but only because they’re still overcrowded for the most part and that they’re centrally located. Consider this: a 1974 normatyw expected a family of four to live on 55 sqm, and that was actually an increase from a previous normatyw (according to which that same family would only get 45 sqm). A 55 sqm Polish apartment has 3 or even 4 cramped rooms; a comparable Western European apartment would only have 2 rooms. If you eliminated overcrowding from these apartments, population density of communist era estates would drop to the higher range of western suburban neighborhoods, making public transit no longer viable there.
A telling example: [neighborhoods](https://maps.app.goo.gl/QWh5wRQTdD7VLGG47) circling Brussels downtown are mostly 3-4 story town houses with large green courtyards and achieve population density of over 20,000 people per square kilometer. At that density level, it makes sense to run a bus every 2-3 minutes, drill a subway or a fast train. I don’t think most people would say they’re cramped either. By comparison, most dense Polish communist-era neighborhoods barely achieve 10,000 people per square kilometer (and often drop to as low as 5,000), a density more comparable to [suburban](https://maps.app.goo.gl/P96NRnUYVi8P1etPA) Dutch neighborhoods.
You could post any bullshit from the whole Poland and you decided to post Wilanow, one of the best planned districts in capitalism times?
Everything in this photo is right, streets were pre planned, the height of buildings is strictly restricted etc. Its a work of good masterplan.
You could post Bialoleka, Las, Pruszkow and choose this exact planned place lol
education too
Not the only thing my dear…
Comments are closed.