Are we mistaking “84m in realised value” for “84m in lost revenue”?
Charging for it doesn’t mean we will raise £84m because it won’t be used the same amount. Especially with rising costs.
I have no issues in giving people on low incomes, pensioners and young people free or heavily discounted travel
The city works when people can move around it
Ah good, let’s just get them all back in their cars and on the roads
Classic Tories, when Labour is in power they pressure cuts to the elderly via their think tanks and newspapers to turn the elderly against Labour. But lo and behold come elections the Tories are offering bungs to the elderly, including this particular perk back in 2012.
Most people aged 60-64 are still in work. Makes zero sense to give them free public transport.
They’ve just put up the cost of the card
It could probably rise a bit further
I’d rather see how the figures stack up with this rise (and potential future ones) before calling for abolition
No one is calling for this. The elder deserve to be able to move freely. It’s important for their bodies and minds.
This is a non issue. We wouldn’t get 84m if they started to pay now, they wouldn’t use trains and buses as much.
Are there any case studies or have any other cities just made their TFL equivalent free? Add it onto council tax, make employers pay etc.
Would save money on barriers, ticket staff and enforcement operations, free up the roads a bit and help tourism.
Would need to keep an eye on anti social stuff but thats needed anyway.
The ticket revenue I suppose helps keep costs and bloat in check so that would need to be managed.
No, we should tax car travel more to cover for it. Public transport isn’t meant to make money. We want people switching into it.
Underground worker: the amount of people I have coming through with Over 60s Passes demanding to be let through the gates despite the fact their Passes do not entitle them to Free Travel before 9am.
Their most common reasoning is that they have to get to work, yet the pass is designed not to be used during the morning peak so that the network isn’t even more congested for paying customers.
Ultimately, I think the elderly should be entitled to free travel, but it should be once they’ve retired and are no longer in work. It’s not fair on the actual customers.
Only absolute pieces of shit would call for this
I know over 60’s who would travel a lot less if we did this.
I’m sorry, they’re treating free travel costing money as *news*?
That’s the whole point of free schemes. Aside from being something most people have been paying into otherwise anyway, free travel schemes promote greater high street and establishment footfall – it is making the money back somewhere.
They should make free travel available to everyone who passes a means test.
Over 60s are the wealthiest generation in history
Calls by who? The people who want us to argue over 84m instead of the billions being wasted elsewhere?
Just stop those fuckers that dodge the fares. It is simple. Raise the fine to £1000 Hire some staffs for that job with national minimum wage + commission of 1% of each fine issued.
60 is a bit of a piss take isn’t it. So many people that age are either retired (because they are wealthy enough) or in very well paying jobs. Yes some low paid workers still slogging it out, but aren’t we all?
This thread is hilarious and so is the article. Absolutely “let them fight” material here.
We’re moving backwards. These bus passes are nothing.
Fgs! What bs. I’m sure I read or heard that there are talks to give 22 & under free bus travel. Wtaf. Take from those that need & give to those that don’t. Don’t most youngsters live with their parents & are driven around? More senior & elderly rely on the bus service. It’s not logical
This may be the 4th or 5th article about this this year. So I’ll just copy and paste my last reply below.
It is sad that we pay more and more in taxes, and we keep getting less and less in return. And some people actually cheer for this to happen. “Journalists” doing the dirty job for the politicians, shaping public opinion so we see perks being removed as a good thing instead of as a bad thing.
*Once again, criticizing some sort of perk people get after a lifetime of contributing to society, as the majority of us are doing at the moment.*
*Yes, some may be well-off and still working so they could pay it, but others rely solely on pension so this probably makes a difference.*
*In any case, my point is that it seems “journalists” keep doing the dirty job for the politicians, shaping public opinion, so when they remove these type of perks, we only do not criticize it, but we welcome it.*
*Bit by bit, every little perk is being taken from us because “it costs money”, yet every year we pay more and more taxes.*
*Maybe we should really look where our taxes are actually wasted and control the spending there.*
*Anyway, I’m sure this will be gone in a few years. But rest assured, the money saved by cutting this will be wasted somewhere else whilst tickets are more expensive every year and service continues to deteriorate.*
*What a time to be alive.*
*PS = I am not 60 or anywhere near, so I don’t benefit from this. I just wished our taxes were put to good use so things like these were not an issue.*
So WFA and the triple lock they can keep, but we need to cancel this over a pissy 84million?
There are over a million over 60s in London, it’s literally about £80 per eligible person.
The fact that only like 300k something have one probably means lots don’t know about it. Brining attention to it could make it worse.
Instead of looking under the sofa cushions for scraps, why not introduce a tourist tax like every other major city and inject some real investment into TfL?
The costs are higher for us the people that pay. Can everyone just pay for what they use and lower the costs across the board?
Trade in your driving licence for a free bus pass.
This drives huge social benefits. £84m feels well worth it.:
– Keeps people active and socially engaged (reduces NHS cost)
– Reduces vehicles on the road (reduces congestion and pollution)
– Reduces road danger, as drivers get older
It is galling seeing the 61 year old execs at work on six figure salaries getting free travel when the apprentices or early career people are paying a huge percentage of their salaries on travel. Could it not be means tested?
We need to stop thinking all over 60s have less disposable income than younger people. My parents now get free prescriptions and free TFL travel. They don’t need either
And to every discussion like this, we should also bring up taxing corporations and the billionaires. Every time.
Too much effort to tackle fare dodging criminals, let’s go after the elderly instead.
don’t have the figures to hand to back this up, but I would be fairly confident that on average, older people in London are much more financially secure than younger people in London – and also less likely to be economically active. those seem like two pretty big reasons why if any age group should get free travel, it shouldn’t be them.
Another case of existing boomers starting to pull up the ladder behind them.
Pensioners in London are the least likely of all ages to be living in poverty.
Not that surprising – most have probably experienced extraordinary gains from the property market over the last 20-30 years and some will have had the benefit of raising their families in a less economically depressed era
Difficult to justify the policy tbh – even if I like the principle
Make transport affordable for all, reliable and scrap executives pay instead
We’ve spent enough on pensioners. Let’s have 15 years of policy based on reducing costs on younger people. Things like housing and childcare are way more important at this stage than whether a millionaire pensioner gets free train tickets.
I agree scrap it, and change it to over 70s
Most over 60s are still working and extremely wealthy
It should not be at 60. Ridiculous that the pension age has gone up and this hasn’t been amended. Many people working much later so why do they get free travel to work. If you want to retire early how you pay for your travel should be factored in. Because you know what, it will be scarped long before I retire
Free travel should come at state pension age if we are going to do it
This is a paltry sum and scrapping it is ridiculous. I don’t see the train or tube companies tackling fare dodging. Something also needs to be done to make transport cheaper for all. Since privatisation, fares are unaffordable for a lot of people. Getting more people to use public transport would take pressure off the roads too.
TFL loses ~130mm a year to fare evasion. Would rather have old people have free pass than young people that don’t care about their communities avoiding fares.
Most of them only worked all of their lives and contributed to the economy.
I wonder how much the free under 16s travel costs in ‘lost revenue ‘
So i assume this lost revenue is for the private companies who own the transportation – so we really are calling to protect profits of private companies in expense of benefits of general public. How socialist.
I have elderly parents in the uk. When I speak to them they go on and on about their freedom passes. They’ve quite literally given them a new lease of life. Would be a shame to take these away.
Since getting mine 4 years agoI know my trips into London have increased massively, the money I spend on food, theatre etc then contributes to the economy and contributes to mental well being by connecting me to people and not feeling isolated
This is such a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, and better than having them driving
No more cuts, especially to the most vulnerable citizens. Plenty of money can be saved elsewhere. This is mere peanuts compared to the billions wasted by the government
not sure if I agree with this one, a lot of elderly people have used public transport to keep warm during winter months because they have no money to keep the heating on. I had a disabled neighbour who died because he wouldn’t turn on the heating and it was the most gut wrenching moment knowing he died because he couldn’t afford heating. he did a lot for the community but this one thing he just didn’t ask help for. I’m still gutted to this day and 6 years later I’m still questioning why he didn’t just ask for help….. RIP Vince.
48 comments
Are we mistaking “84m in realised value” for “84m in lost revenue”?
Charging for it doesn’t mean we will raise £84m because it won’t be used the same amount. Especially with rising costs.
I have no issues in giving people on low incomes, pensioners and young people free or heavily discounted travel
The city works when people can move around it
Ah good, let’s just get them all back in their cars and on the roads
Classic Tories, when Labour is in power they pressure cuts to the elderly via their think tanks and newspapers to turn the elderly against Labour. But lo and behold come elections the Tories are offering bungs to the elderly, including this particular perk back in 2012.
Most people aged 60-64 are still in work. Makes zero sense to give them free public transport.
They’ve just put up the cost of the card
It could probably rise a bit further
I’d rather see how the figures stack up with this rise (and potential future ones) before calling for abolition
No one is calling for this. The elder deserve to be able to move freely. It’s important for their bodies and minds.
This is a non issue. We wouldn’t get 84m if they started to pay now, they wouldn’t use trains and buses as much.
Are there any case studies or have any other cities just made their TFL equivalent free? Add it onto council tax, make employers pay etc.
Would save money on barriers, ticket staff and enforcement operations, free up the roads a bit and help tourism.
Would need to keep an eye on anti social stuff but thats needed anyway.
The ticket revenue I suppose helps keep costs and bloat in check so that would need to be managed.
No, we should tax car travel more to cover for it. Public transport isn’t meant to make money. We want people switching into it.
Underground worker: the amount of people I have coming through with Over 60s Passes demanding to be let through the gates despite the fact their Passes do not entitle them to Free Travel before 9am.
Their most common reasoning is that they have to get to work, yet the pass is designed not to be used during the morning peak so that the network isn’t even more congested for paying customers.
Ultimately, I think the elderly should be entitled to free travel, but it should be once they’ve retired and are no longer in work. It’s not fair on the actual customers.
Only absolute pieces of shit would call for this
I know over 60’s who would travel a lot less if we did this.
I’m sorry, they’re treating free travel costing money as *news*?
That’s the whole point of free schemes. Aside from being something most people have been paying into otherwise anyway, free travel schemes promote greater high street and establishment footfall – it is making the money back somewhere.
They should make free travel available to everyone who passes a means test.
Over 60s are the wealthiest generation in history
Calls by who? The people who want us to argue over 84m instead of the billions being wasted elsewhere?
Just stop those fuckers that dodge the fares. It is simple. Raise the fine to £1000 Hire some staffs for that job with national minimum wage + commission of 1% of each fine issued.
60 is a bit of a piss take isn’t it. So many people that age are either retired (because they are wealthy enough) or in very well paying jobs. Yes some low paid workers still slogging it out, but aren’t we all?
This thread is hilarious and so is the article. Absolutely “let them fight” material here.
We’re moving backwards. These bus passes are nothing.
Fgs! What bs. I’m sure I read or heard that there are talks to give 22 & under free bus travel. Wtaf. Take from those that need & give to those that don’t. Don’t most youngsters live with their parents & are driven around? More senior & elderly rely on the bus service. It’s not logical
This may be the 4th or 5th article about this this year. So I’ll just copy and paste my last reply below.
It is sad that we pay more and more in taxes, and we keep getting less and less in return. And some people actually cheer for this to happen. “Journalists” doing the dirty job for the politicians, shaping public opinion so we see perks being removed as a good thing instead of as a bad thing.
*Once again, criticizing some sort of perk people get after a lifetime of contributing to society, as the majority of us are doing at the moment.*
*Yes, some may be well-off and still working so they could pay it, but others rely solely on pension so this probably makes a difference.*
*In any case, my point is that it seems “journalists” keep doing the dirty job for the politicians, shaping public opinion, so when they remove these type of perks, we only do not criticize it, but we welcome it.*
*Bit by bit, every little perk is being taken from us because “it costs money”, yet every year we pay more and more taxes.*
*Maybe we should really look where our taxes are actually wasted and control the spending there.*
*Anyway, I’m sure this will be gone in a few years. But rest assured, the money saved by cutting this will be wasted somewhere else whilst tickets are more expensive every year and service continues to deteriorate.*
*What a time to be alive.*
*PS = I am not 60 or anywhere near, so I don’t benefit from this. I just wished our taxes were put to good use so things like these were not an issue.*
So WFA and the triple lock they can keep, but we need to cancel this over a pissy 84million?
There are over a million over 60s in London, it’s literally about £80 per eligible person.
The fact that only like 300k something have one probably means lots don’t know about it. Brining attention to it could make it worse.
Instead of looking under the sofa cushions for scraps, why not introduce a tourist tax like every other major city and inject some real investment into TfL?
The costs are higher for us the people that pay. Can everyone just pay for what they use and lower the costs across the board?
Trade in your driving licence for a free bus pass.
This drives huge social benefits. £84m feels well worth it.:
– Keeps people active and socially engaged (reduces NHS cost)
– Reduces vehicles on the road (reduces congestion and pollution)
– Reduces road danger, as drivers get older
It is galling seeing the 61 year old execs at work on six figure salaries getting free travel when the apprentices or early career people are paying a huge percentage of their salaries on travel. Could it not be means tested?
We need to stop thinking all over 60s have less disposable income than younger people. My parents now get free prescriptions and free TFL travel. They don’t need either
And to every discussion like this, we should also bring up taxing corporations and the billionaires. Every time.
Too much effort to tackle fare dodging criminals, let’s go after the elderly instead.
don’t have the figures to hand to back this up, but I would be fairly confident that on average, older people in London are much more financially secure than younger people in London – and also less likely to be economically active. those seem like two pretty big reasons why if any age group should get free travel, it shouldn’t be them.
Another case of existing boomers starting to pull up the ladder behind them.
“Lost revenue” is incorrectly labelling it
https://preview.redd.it/mguklvo9b5jf1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72532776b8130865de2a0c66ef760daa701a6bca
Pensioners in London are the least likely of all ages to be living in poverty.
Not that surprising – most have probably experienced extraordinary gains from the property market over the last 20-30 years and some will have had the benefit of raising their families in a less economically depressed era
Difficult to justify the policy tbh – even if I like the principle
Make transport affordable for all, reliable and scrap executives pay instead
We’ve spent enough on pensioners. Let’s have 15 years of policy based on reducing costs on younger people. Things like housing and childcare are way more important at this stage than whether a millionaire pensioner gets free train tickets.
I agree scrap it, and change it to over 70s
Most over 60s are still working and extremely wealthy
It should not be at 60. Ridiculous that the pension age has gone up and this hasn’t been amended. Many people working much later so why do they get free travel to work. If you want to retire early how you pay for your travel should be factored in. Because you know what, it will be scarped long before I retire
Free travel should come at state pension age if we are going to do it
This is a paltry sum and scrapping it is ridiculous. I don’t see the train or tube companies tackling fare dodging. Something also needs to be done to make transport cheaper for all. Since privatisation, fares are unaffordable for a lot of people. Getting more people to use public transport would take pressure off the roads too.
TFL loses ~130mm a year to fare evasion. Would rather have old people have free pass than young people that don’t care about their communities avoiding fares.
Most of them only worked all of their lives and contributed to the economy.
I wonder how much the free under 16s travel costs in ‘lost revenue ‘
So i assume this lost revenue is for the private companies who own the transportation – so we really are calling to protect profits of private companies in expense of benefits of general public. How socialist.
I have elderly parents in the uk. When I speak to them they go on and on about their freedom passes. They’ve quite literally given them a new lease of life. Would be a shame to take these away.
Since getting mine 4 years agoI know my trips into London have increased massively, the money I spend on food, theatre etc then contributes to the economy and contributes to mental well being by connecting me to people and not feeling isolated
This is such a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, and better than having them driving
No more cuts, especially to the most vulnerable citizens. Plenty of money can be saved elsewhere. This is mere peanuts compared to the billions wasted by the government
not sure if I agree with this one, a lot of elderly people have used public transport to keep warm during winter months because they have no money to keep the heating on. I had a disabled neighbour who died because he wouldn’t turn on the heating and it was the most gut wrenching moment knowing he died because he couldn’t afford heating. he did a lot for the community but this one thing he just didn’t ask help for. I’m still gutted to this day and 6 years later I’m still questioning why he didn’t just ask for help….. RIP Vince.
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