By now, most lokale besturen have replaced the old natrium (orange light) streetlights with LED streelights (white/blue light). These new streetlights stress me the FUCK out. I feel like I am the only one experiencing this issue.

I am somewhere on the autism spectrum and have always been sensitive to light. In my home, I prefer using dim, warm lights as much as I can. I rarely use 'the big light', just several small lights. Bright, white LED light is so overstimulating to me. With this new type of street light, there is no escaping. I used to really enjoy nighttime walks in the streets. The orange light was cosy and warm. I don't enjoy these walks anymore, the bright light ruins the mood entirely. Also, research has shown that blue light has a negative effect on health and on plants and wildlife.

I am looking for allies who want to start an action group to turn down the brightness of the LED lamps, and to adopt a warmer color temperature (1900-2000K). I am dead serious. I have experience in campaigning and policy work. Who is interested? I think it would be interesting to include different perspectives, ie. environmental concerns, health concerns, neurodiversity concerns.

by Jakskip

33 comments

  1. What about the people that get triggered by warmer light colors?

  3. Not experiencing what you’re experiencing, but it does sound reasonable.

    Question, would wearing tinted glasses help with the walks? I know there’s a bit of a stigma about wearing sunglasses indoors/at night, but with the proper leather jacket and pvc pants it could work :p

  4. Can’t you just wear (sun)glasses with a light filter? This seems a bit dramatic

  5. They installed new led lighting near my house and it’s a cold white, yes.. however. The lighting cone is so focussed it’s pretty brilliant. My wife was complaining a month after they were installed that they still weren’t working because we could no longer see any light coming in from outside.

    They were! They just light the bikepath perfectly (cold white)’ but they no longer scatter and light the environment. The surroundings are not randomly lit up, so the wildlife gets to experience darkness. I can look up and see the sky. And the bikepath is very well lit.

  6. So now that finally after like 20 years most of the lights are LED, you want them to change them again because you get triggered by the cold white spectrum?

    Has this become the new “first world problem” of this day and age?

    Also the thing you are complaining about is probably the exact reason why they are used.
    The function of the lights is not the make it “homely”, but the be clear, efficient and increase alertness.

  7. I experience the total opposite from you. I despise warm lights when I need to focus, like when cooking, eating, talking with people around a table, playing board games or driving. It’s as if everything was more blurry … it’s just uncomfortably harder.

    I’m okay with warm lights used as mood light (like around me when I’m watching a tv, when I’m scrolling my phone or working on a computer) but it’s god damn awful to me if I need to read a book and there is only warm lights.

    Studies have shown that white led lights are also better for the environment, safety on the road, ecology, …

    The only drawback with the leds is that the source of light is way more narrow, which indeed is blinding when you have to look at it directly. The current implementation of the main car lightning is awful because they are blinding other drivers that are facing your lights. They should add a lens or something so that the source of light is perceived as bigger. But for secondary lightning it’s way better and more visible (like the stop lights behind the car) with the new leds than with the old tech.

  8. I totally agree with you on the warmth, but I also know that the new lights are more focused and have less aura, which is better for the environment. Honestly if I could I would just fully petition for no lights at all, like in some countries. The night sky is one of the most beautiful thing we can freely look at, it’s such a shame we deprive ourselves of it for something ultimately unnecessary. Besides, darkness cycles are important for organic lives (including ours).

  9. the reactions so far are what I would expect from r/Belgium, truly beacons of enlightment (no pun intended), open to discussion, empathetic, and intelligent. /s

    Anywho, around where I live, they actually placed new lighting for the bike paths and they’re in a red colour. everything’s perfectly visible; it’s nice and dim, and it helps for local fauna and flora, so it is possible, and it’s nice.

    Especially considering there’s no technical barrier holding us back from doing this, literally just a choice, it doesn’t take away any visibility, they don’t cost more or less.

    But here’s the thing; in recent years we’ve barely started convincing the majority of people that pollution (like that of cars) is bad and that it actually costs our society literal **billions**, money they pay through insurance, their healthcare and taxation, not to mention the loss of lives. I mean, they’ll moan and cry all the time about their taxes but when you point that out, you’ll see them perform the most majestic knee-jerk whiplash reaction possible.

    So obviously you’ll see them frothing at the mouth when you bring up things like light or sound pollution; you’ll be marked a snowflake a wokey, insulted etc.. no argument will be brought up, as they have none, just small egos and hurt feelings.

    No idea why, honestly. Based on their reaction you’d think it’s they themselves who have to make the change and climb up every streetlight rather than just asking the government to set out some guidelines for LEDs so when they get replaced or new ones installed, they take care not to pick ones that outshine the sun and have a warmer glow. It doesn’t cost more; the ones already installed don’t even have to be replaced immediately.

    So if anything, I’ll support you OP, I’d even take it a step further and address light pollution in general in Belgium, it’s kind of sad how we can barely even see the stars anymore and there’s really no need for that; all that light beaming up is wasted energy.

    I’d love to hear an actual argument from people against this, tbh, like an explanation as to why this would be bad somehow.

  10. I wonder if there is PWM that makes you stressed?

    I can’t stand the car lights that the new cars have, also LED bulbs at home made me sick, but only with the new iPhones I finally found the root issue.

    Is it “just” making you uncomfortable or is there an actual neurological problem that you have with it?

  11. Women getting harassed by men is why we need streetlights unfortunately.
    Like rats the man beast fears the light.

  12. I honestly would rather have no lights at all. Learn how to walk in the dark, people!

  13. I think the reason why they go with a cold blueish light is that cold blueish light is the cheapest per lumen. Warm light is more expensive.

  14. In my neighborhood they replaced all the bright white LED lights with red LED lights. It looks like a prostitution district but it helps the nocturnal animals (mainly bats) a lot so I’m glad they did it anyways.

    I don’t live in or near Zillebeke but this page explains it well: https://www.rlwesthoek.be/rood-straatlicht-in-zillebeke/

  16. I’m sorry but surely you can’t expect the entire country to invest millions of taxpayer money to accomodate to the incredibly small population of people having issues with these LED-lights?n

    Just like we’re also not banning bread bacause some people are unfortunately gluten intolerant. It’s the people with gluten intolerance who will have to accomodate to our bread-loving society.

    I’m all for an inclusive society where everyone feels save and accepted, but at some point the benefits are so small that it’s just not worth the effort…

  17. It deeply annoys me that it often feels brighter outside at night than during the day. Especially recently, now that all the streetlights near my house were turned on again.

    I’d definitely be in favor of lights that are both:

    – Redder / dimmer
    – More focused on the sidewalks

  18. unfortunately this is a matter of cost, the difference between cold and warm LED lights in these projects is a difference of 60% in price so municipalities don’t budget for the warmer light unless it is related to something in protected nature where ANB is more restrictive

  19. I live close to the port of Antwerp. Their new LED lights are insane, makes it look like it’s daylight. I get why it’s preferable when you work there, but it’s really bright, even from a distance. Almost disturbingly bright even.

  21. When they started installing those new lights around here a couple of years ago I asked the question during the municipal council.

    They have little choice in the ‘warmth’ of the lights. There were studies performed to select the best light setting and now those are applied everywhere in Flanders (in our municipality it was Fluvius (as they were responsible for the maintenance) who was responsible to set them up but the municipality paying for it). They are adapted to different types of roads and are optimized to lower road incidents while avoiding to light everything up. If the municipality chooses they can even set ‘intelligent’ lights that light up if somebody comes close (though I have no idea exactly if that one works efficiently).

    On top of that there are objectives set by Flanders to replace all public lights by LEDs by 2028. 1 year ago Fluvius communicated that half of the streets were covered by LEDs already. One year later I guess we’re already much further but it also shows how big of a project this is. 

    TL;DR : It’s highly unlikely that you’ll change anything with your action committee because of 2 reasons : 1. You’re too late. 2. The warmth of the lights have been studied and not decided randomly. You’ll have a hard time advocating against that.

  22. Yeah okay shame for you but honestly those lamps are in general an improvement and if they adapt brightness or color there will probably be some other person that has problems with it. Society can’t possibly be expected to deal with such individual issues. I even find it annoying that some people actually think it’s reasonable to expect this. Street lamps should obviously be bright for example, that’s the whole point!

  23. No need to be in any spectrum to find it extremely awful.

    I personally bought orang tinted/blue light blocking glasses.

    So I can walk at night and be thrown back in simpler time aha.

    But in reality these glasses are wonderful, you can use your big light during evening for doing stuff that requires to see better (like cooking or whatever) but you’ll feel like you only have the small light on (not exactly the same of course, but it is impressive at how close your mood will feel)

  24. Are you fucking serious? Of all the problems on this planet, you want to spend your time fighting over [checks notes] *the colour tone of your street light*?

    I am saving this post. The next time someone starts arguing that our society is fucked, I’m showing them this, to show that we live in a land of luxury, where someone has to go so fucking deep to find something that they can campaign about is *the fucking colour tone of the street lights*.

    Wear colour toned glasses. There. Done. Save everyone some time. Because you clearly have too much time on your hands.

  25. My street is still orange and it blacks out after like 11.30pm. I find most areas around me actually seem to be blacked out from a certain time on.

  26. Normal sunglasses won’t do much, but yellow glasses (also used by people with night blindness) might help OP on his walks.

  27. Have you tried wearing yellow-color tinted glasses? Then all street lights will be warm automatically and more dim

  29. I agree about the temperature. But you know what I absolutely love? The new lights in my street go out completely at like 1 at night. It’s so dark, I love it.

  31. The orange glow of the sodium lamp are objectively worse. The wavelength (589 nm) is so narrow is mindboggling. I’m sorry it’s triggering your autism but for regular people white is better (if the CRI is >80). Maybe you should try sunglasses or polarized glasses. I’m pretty sure you can find sunglasses with the orange flavor ( used by plane pilots back in the day).

  33. Adding number 78.

    Ever since the old lights have been replaced, I need a lot of shading just to be able to sleep.
    First, a very bright lantern hung next to my bedroom window. Slightly higher.
    It’s a bow window, and I covered the panel facing the light. That totally blocked the light.

    Then the newer LED lights were placed.
    Did they go on the spot where the old ones were? Of course not.
    Lowered, to face the bow window but this time level with the lower rim.
    The light is sent almost the same amount up as it goes down.
    Placed new curtains, the light reflects N times between the curtain and the glass.
    Can block only ¾ of this new sun (the previous one, though very bright, was an eclipsed moon where this one is daylight)
    It’s much easier now for burglars too.

    The best of it? The commune didn’t even react to my email.
    Maybe I’ll have to contact them again. And then again.

    The previous lamp sure was bright, and whitish, with some pink/orange so probably Na vapor in high pressure. With some other gas mixed in. Mercury white/green?
    (The lower vapour pressure on highways used to be very orange only)

    The LED is the football court color.
    For loud noise earplugs help.
    For this light, macula degeneration would but that stays on all of the time.
    Sleeping with an airplane mask? Those aren’t designed for horizontal sleepers.

    And when you want to save electricity, why isn’t there a movement detector?

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