‘one of the least democratic democracies in the world’??
How high are you right now OP, on a scale of ‘very high’ to ‘tripping balls’?
Me at 15 trying to explain to my media studies teacher this was hopeless
Not helped by the fact blair had just had his landslide victory
I’m curious, in proportional representation how do you decide which MP represents which bit of Britain? And if they don’t represent a local region, why have so many.
First past the post is always a bit problematic, but it’s a massive stretch to say votes don’t matter just because they don’t win.
If there are 5+ parties up for election in most seats then of course those votes are going to be spread thin between them
Never thought I’d see it without Scotland and/or Wales threatening to leave the union, but Labour will change the electoral process now as a priority due to their electoral collapse. They thought they’d always be the second beneficiary, but alas, they sank their own boat.
Why not just vote to change the way that we…. Oh.
If you wish for an end to FPTP and seats proportional to the vote count Reform would have 93 seats in parliament…let that sink in…
On what scale?
The idea that 74% of votes don’t matter is either someone who doesn’t understand what voting is, or hopes the reader doesn’t.
If the person you vote for doesn’t have enough votes, they lose. Not everyone can win. We have a multi party system which means that you can get a winning total of votes with far less than 50%. This isn’t a bug, this is a feature of an open democracy.
Weird how one election might’ve benefited the right wing and all of a sudden they’re all screaming for PR. FPTP has never been a problem in the past, when the Tory’s have been winning.
As an Italian I’m well versed in the PR system, and I can tell you with very high confidence that you can feel that your vote doesn’t count even with PR.
It’s the one thing of Reform’s policies I can actually agree with. That said if Farage thinks he can get a majority with FPTP and get the keys to no10 I’m sure he would Uturn on that point
The reason for FPTP is local representation; you get an MP who stood in your constituency whether you voted for them or not. It does produce skewed results at a national level definitely. But that local connection is important.
Don’t forget the House of Lords. Only in Iran and the UK do religious leaders have seats in parliament. And the whole chamber is full of cronies and appointees, including donors, Boris Johnson’s brother, and the son of a KGB agent. Then we have the monarchy, a hereditary head of state that has altered thousands of laws for their own benefit, avoids laws and taxes, and accepts cash bribes.
The UK isn’t close to a full democracy.
And don’t forget if you don’t vote your vote goes to the sitting party.
If you had proportional representation your area might get dumped with an MP who doesn’t represent the views of thst area’s majority ie a reform or labour MP covers your area because lots of people in a high density area wanted them when your area actually voted green or lib
Lot of people here in these comments about to lose their minds when they learn about gerrymandering.
I think we need a system like Scotland, otherwise if you’re in a safe seat time after time your vote doesn’t count
We still don’t know who paid for those anti AV ads haha.
This is a company political posting by Reform Ltd.
Could argue the same point that the Union doesn’t work. 3 out of 4 Countries (Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) can all vote 1 way but it.wont matter if England vote for the opposite the we are stuck with them. Look at the Tories. Barely any seats in Wales, Scotland and NI yet they had 14 years in power thanks to England.
The problem is, the only people who can change the system are at any given time the only people benefitting from the system.
While I agree AV would have been a much better system, you can in fact change the government in the UK system, it is hardly undemocratic.
As a Belgian, PR doesn’t *necessarily* deliver better outcomes. But it does deliver a less divided population and a better informed population as they are exposed to more ideas
You’re saying this on pro labour reddit where labour gained a massive majority due to fptp so expect push back
First Past the Post works because even with a Clown like Starmer, who achieved fewer votes than Corbyn (quite a feat), the British public was able to chuck the ineffective Tories out.
Under PR, you can’t get rid of anyone and you have absolutely no say on how much of your MP’s manifesto goes straight in the bin when they are horse-trading to form a coalition.
PR is the answer to the question no one asked.
We had a referendum on this. People voted to keep first past the post so it is in fact very democratic.
Same here in Canada. Godspeed, limeys.
The thing with first past the post is I have a person that lives in my town and is sent to government to represent said town. And I’m not convinced there’s another system that has that level of accountability at a local level.
Do I like said guy? No. He’s a cockwomble. But the people of this town choose him, and that’s kind of the bit that matters. If you can show me a system that combines a local MP and more proportional representation, I’ll listen to it.
A ridiculous idea perpetuated by a ridiculous individual that writes headlines for clicks and not for thought. There’s nothing to see here.
Funny how the Tories were so happy with the system until 2023.
Being one of the least democratic countries is still better than not being a democratic country… Least doesn’t mean not at all.
in a recent election i remember checking out the “votes per seat” numbers and it was roughly 200-250k for a conservative seat, 400-500k for labour (corbyn) and then a whopping 1m per seat for the lib dems. It’s beyond broken.
Funny that Reform were supporting proportional representation until the tables turned and now they favour first past the post!
37 comments
Democracy: where your vote counts, unless it’s in a safe seat. then it’s just a polite nod to tradition.
FPTP was ratified by the British public in a referendum.
Also, a lot of seats *would* change hands if everyone registered to vote would actually get off their arse and do so.
If you don’t vote, you forfeit the right to complain about the government.
We’re in the top 17 so hush up 🙄
https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking
‘one of the least democratic democracies in the world’??
How high are you right now OP, on a scale of ‘very high’ to ‘tripping balls’?
Me at 15 trying to explain to my media studies teacher this was hopeless
Not helped by the fact blair had just had his landslide victory
I’m curious, in proportional representation how do you decide which MP represents which bit of Britain? And if they don’t represent a local region, why have so many.
First past the post is always a bit problematic, but it’s a massive stretch to say votes don’t matter just because they don’t win.
If there are 5+ parties up for election in most seats then of course those votes are going to be spread thin between them
Never thought I’d see it without Scotland and/or Wales threatening to leave the union, but Labour will change the electoral process now as a priority due to their electoral collapse. They thought they’d always be the second beneficiary, but alas, they sank their own boat.
Why not just vote to change the way that we…. Oh.
If you wish for an end to FPTP and seats proportional to the vote count Reform would have 93 seats in parliament…let that sink in…
On what scale?
The idea that 74% of votes don’t matter is either someone who doesn’t understand what voting is, or hopes the reader doesn’t.
If the person you vote for doesn’t have enough votes, they lose. Not everyone can win. We have a multi party system which means that you can get a winning total of votes with far less than 50%. This isn’t a bug, this is a feature of an open democracy.
Weird how one election might’ve benefited the right wing and all of a sudden they’re all screaming for PR. FPTP has never been a problem in the past, when the Tory’s have been winning.
As an Italian I’m well versed in the PR system, and I can tell you with very high confidence that you can feel that your vote doesn’t count even with PR.
It’s the one thing of Reform’s policies I can actually agree with. That said if Farage thinks he can get a majority with FPTP and get the keys to no10 I’m sure he would Uturn on that point
The reason for FPTP is local representation; you get an MP who stood in your constituency whether you voted for them or not. It does produce skewed results at a national level definitely. But that local connection is important.
Don’t forget the House of Lords. Only in Iran and the UK do religious leaders have seats in parliament. And the whole chamber is full of cronies and appointees, including donors, Boris Johnson’s brother, and the son of a KGB agent. Then we have the monarchy, a hereditary head of state that has altered thousands of laws for their own benefit, avoids laws and taxes, and accepts cash bribes.
The UK isn’t close to a full democracy.
And don’t forget if you don’t vote your vote goes to the sitting party.
If you had proportional representation your area might get dumped with an MP who doesn’t represent the views of thst area’s majority ie a reform or labour MP covers your area because lots of people in a high density area wanted them when your area actually voted green or lib
Lot of people here in these comments about to lose their minds when they learn about gerrymandering.
I think we need a system like Scotland, otherwise if you’re in a safe seat time after time your vote doesn’t count
We still don’t know who paid for those anti AV ads haha.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/feb/25/no-to-alternative-vote-baby-ad
This is a company political posting by Reform Ltd.
Could argue the same point that the Union doesn’t work. 3 out of 4 Countries (Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) can all vote 1 way but it.wont matter if England vote for the opposite the we are stuck with them. Look at the Tories. Barely any seats in Wales, Scotland and NI yet they had 14 years in power thanks to England.
The problem is, the only people who can change the system are at any given time the only people benefitting from the system.
While I agree AV would have been a much better system, you can in fact change the government in the UK system, it is hardly undemocratic.
As a Belgian, PR doesn’t *necessarily* deliver better outcomes. But it does deliver a less divided population and a better informed population as they are exposed to more ideas
You’re saying this on pro labour reddit where labour gained a massive majority due to fptp so expect push back
First Past the Post works because even with a Clown like Starmer, who achieved fewer votes than Corbyn (quite a feat), the British public was able to chuck the ineffective Tories out.
Under PR, you can’t get rid of anyone and you have absolutely no say on how much of your MP’s manifesto goes straight in the bin when they are horse-trading to form a coalition.
PR is the answer to the question no one asked.
We had a referendum on this. People voted to keep first past the post so it is in fact very democratic.
Same here in Canada. Godspeed, limeys.
The thing with first past the post is I have a person that lives in my town and is sent to government to represent said town. And I’m not convinced there’s another system that has that level of accountability at a local level.
Do I like said guy? No. He’s a cockwomble. But the people of this town choose him, and that’s kind of the bit that matters. If you can show me a system that combines a local MP and more proportional representation, I’ll listen to it.
A ridiculous idea perpetuated by a ridiculous individual that writes headlines for clicks and not for thought. There’s nothing to see here.
Funny how the Tories were so happy with the system until 2023.
Being one of the least democratic countries is still better than not being a democratic country… Least doesn’t mean not at all.
in a recent election i remember checking out the “votes per seat” numbers and it was roughly 200-250k for a conservative seat, 400-500k for labour (corbyn) and then a whopping 1m per seat for the lib dems. It’s beyond broken.
Funny that Reform were supporting proportional representation until the tables turned and now they favour first past the post!
Comments are closed.